<p>I really like that as a strategy, pizzagirl - doing something like that is hands on and makes someone think about tradeoffs and choices. Of course the student has to be willing to even go through the exercise! But, for an example, one could initially feel that an all women's college is not up for consideration. If you realize that although single sex the school is ALSO across the street from a coed school or in close proximity to a big college town, that might moderate your thinking. The choice doesn't seem so all or nothing.</p>
<p>Baelor said:</p>
<p>
[quote]
I did roughly the same thing with school software.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So did my son and he read the college guide assessments. And he read the college's literature in the college placement/counseling office. And, yes he applied to reach, match and safety colleges. </p>
<p>As I understand Cindysphinx's delima, her daughter hasn't and isn't willing to do this process with software or cards.</p>
<p>I suggest that AT THIS POINT Cindysphinx is left with making very clear to her daughter that the RESULT of what she, the daughter, decides concerning where to apply is solely the responsibility of the daughter.</p>
<p>Seems like many posters are giving fabulous ways to make decisions, but Cindysphinx's daughter ISN'T INTERESTED.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl and Baelor-
Very helpful advice for any college applicant!! Bravo! It is a great list of criteria and a clever way to prioritize. Another way to prioritize is to take criteria 2 at a time and put them head to head -- and say "if I could only have one of these, which would it be?" These are all suggestions for how to approach the identification of good fits, and conversely, the process of elimination, in a reasoned manner. Excellent suggestions have been provided here.</p>
<p>One small clarification if I may- to correct a typo in post #299- I meant to say that no one is saying that any student SHOULDN'T reach for the golden ring. Of course they should. Optimism, drive, goals are good things.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, that is an excellent list of college criteria, as well as a fruitful excercise. Picking out colleges needs to START with a personalized list of criteria. What has confused me about Cindy's D is that she either doesnt' have defined criteria, or that it is vague, or else we just don't know her criteria. So, one, it is hard to suggest schools for her. And two, she seems to be picking and dismissing colleges based on name....if she has heard of it, someone goes there, it sounds cool or has prestige. It is such an important decision (and of course not foolproof) that I'd be real concerned with how she is picking them or dismissing others. I think a kid is bound to be happier at the school they land at in fall if they have explored the schools deeply and chosen in a very informed manner. I think one reason my kids turned out happy at their schools is because of how deeply they explored them and chose them due to fit based on their selection criteria which differs from the next kid's. </p>
<p>For instance, Cindy's D dimissed American and Goucher because they are too local but is applying to Georgetown and UMD. She may not prefer a local school, I understand, but she was willing to forego that criteria if the school met other criteria. She wants a medium sized school but has UMD. If she is willing to go to a large school like UMD, perhaps she should be willing to look at another one. She doesn't want snowy but has Northwestern and Brown which are snowy. Perhaps other schools are snowy but have other features she likes that compensate for that one thing that is not ideal. And so on.</p>
<p>Cindy can't make her kid do this. But if it were me, I'd want my kid to create her OWN college list (which I would not influence) but I'd want her to articulate specific reasons why each school is on it. That's important as she is going to go for four years and is making a commitment. If she can't articulate reasons, how in the world can she do so on her applications and interviews? This is pretty important in admissions. Cindy can't make her. But this is what college selection is about. I'd not be real keen if my kid only selected by "name" and "friend said it was a cool school." And I would not be satisfied if she knocked out the fifty match and safety schools suggested here without clearcut reasons. Otherwise, it sounds like she is picking a dress out.</p>
<p>I am among the minority on this thread who think that there are numerous well meaning and caring posters who have been hard on the OP.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl's strategy is great...but....there are some kids who just aren't focused enough to even make those choices. They can't articulate specific, non-conflicting reasons why some schools make the list and some don't. When it comes time for deciding where to go...some of the best advice I've heard on CC, and I've repeated, is to go somewhere near the student union. Sit down. Look at people. Listen to discussions. Do you see yourself spending 4 years at that school? If yes, it's likely a place for you. Through what is an arduous process for some of us, there probably are specific criteria, but...for some of us..."it just feels right" is enough. </p>
<p>I had no idea what I wanted to major in (maybe French or Math...ended up a history major) or the school "atmosphere" I wanted.</p>
<p>I chose schools to apply to based on where siblings had gone
1) Northeastern Ivy League
2) Southeast large flagship state U</p>
<p>and a couple we had driven through</p>
<p>3) medium size southern state school with the "look" and atmosphere of a private
4) New England women's college</p>
<p>and a state safety...which I ended up not completing the application for because I was admitted "rolling" to the southeastern flagship...which I would have preferred over the state safety.</p>
<p>I have no idea what the academic strengths were of the schools I applied to. My parents were big believers in a liberal arts education, and they seemed to know I'd get a good one at any of the schools I applied to.</p>
<p>If I had a passion for a particular subject, or knew what professional direction I wanted to take, my choices would have been more focused. And then I could have followed Pizzagirl's process, or any of the other well meaning suggestions on this thread. But...in the end...getting good vibes and feeling "thrilled" about where I would be going to school worked just fine for me. </p>
<p>But...that was many years ago. I know things are different now. Been through it with one child already, who also had a somewhat eclectic list....with a few more defined criteria, but not many. </p>
<p>Although my earlier advice for the OP, was that the D needed a safety or two to add to the list.....I'm changing my advice. If the D would truly be happy at Charleston...let it be. If the Georgetown EA is not positive, maybe some suggestions the OP has made will become a little more thrilling. If not....her D takes her chances with the Spring.</p>
<p>2boysinma...I agree with getting a vibe about a school. But here's the thing. Cindy's D hasn't visited each of these schools to glean that vibe. She likes Northwestern and Brown but hasn't visited. That's fine but just saying that she might find things to like about other schools without visiting just the same. College of Charleston is fine but if she has only ONE safety and hasn't visited, she might not like the vibe there, as she has no idea at this point what it is. If she is only left with that one acceptance with no options, that would concern me as she doesn't know that school that well. I'd want to insure she had some options if she hasn't yet been able to visit. </p>
<p>Another thing is that she is looking at very selective schools which is fine but in that realm TODAY, when it is very competitive, a candidate better be able to articulate on the applications and in interviews, specific reasons why that school fits him/her. I am immersed in numerous statements of this type that every one of my students is writing about every one of their colleges. When a kid has nothing to say about the school, that tells me they don't know it. I am an alum interviewer for my alma mater, a selective university on par with the level of Cindy's D's top four reach schools. In every interview, I ask why the student is interested in the university and let me tell ya, the kids who just say things like "it's in Boston and I heard it was a great school" are not gonna get as good of a write up as a kid who articulates how that university matches them. When it is this selective, this stuff matters. But it should matter to someone who is spending four years of their life and countless dollars anyway.</p>
<p>Well, back to work for me....gotta read another Why X College statement. Just taking a break from the last one I read from a student. They have to do many drafts of these until they get specific enough.</p>
<p>Another thing Cindy: Are you okay with her list? If she truly only does get into Charleston, what do you honestly think will happen? If you are okay with her going, and she will want to go, then great. Same if both of you are fine with her staying home. But if there is any disagreement, you have problems!</p>
<p>I hate to say this, and I realize that it is hard to get your D interested, but I honestly would just force her to pick two. I "wasn't interested" and, much to my current displeasure, I did consider many schools beneath me. But that's solely because I hadn't done research and found out that there are many prominent grads from many schools, not just HYPS, Georgetown, MIT, Northwestern, etc. Again, if both of your are okay with her going to Charleston/staying home, great. If not, I would just tell her to pick two to apply to that have minimal supplements, and don't let her submit the other apps until the safeties are adequately done (i.e., no terrible, 5 minute essays). I actually, given your posts and those of others, was going to suggest not paying for app fees unless she applied to more safeties, but I don't think that's necessary.</p>
<p>But remember, YOU'RE paying for this. She needs to realize that your concerns must be addressed as well. If you have none, more power to both of you.</p>
<p>You say that money is no object; after following this entire thread, I have one crucial piece of advice. VISIT COC. There's nothing wrong with having Charleston to fall back on, but VISIT and make sure your D is still as content with it as she is now. It's not that far to travel from DC to SC, and if the visit is positive, you will save a lot of stress.</p>
<p>I also think that one safety, no matter how safe, is not enough, but that may be my paranoid side chiming in.</p>
<p>Keil...I agree....I would sleep better with two safeties. Nothing in life is a guarantee and also even if it is, and she only gets into her safeties, she may enjoy having a choice and not feel she has to go to a school by default, considering her level of pickiness (she deserves to be picky). But what is more of a concern is that given that she cares about what thrills her and what doesn't, she hasn't even visited College of Charleston and she doesn't even know if she likes the vibe. What if she doesn't and that is the only school she gets into? So, without a visit, I'd hate to have to commit to that one option only.</p>
<p>If she is willing to gamble on C of C sight unseen, why not be willing to gamble on another match or two and another safety sight unseen? The chances that they may thrill her or not are about the same as with C of C.</p>
<p>This is so funny. OP, look it this way - your thread has fastly becoming one of the most viewed one on CC. We are talking about history here.</p>
<p>"I agree with getting a vibe about a school. But here's the thing. Cindy's D hasn't visited each of these schools to glean that vibe. She likes Northwestern and Brown but hasn't visited."</p>
<p>And those are pretty easy schools to like, kwim? They aren't terribly polarizing schools (the way, say, UChicago or Reed might be). My guess is that if you had her do the exercise, "a school other people have heard of" or "a school people in my town often select" may be higher on her list than she thinks or is willing to admit.</p>
<p>DadII: My hope, considering the time I put into this when I should have been doing my real work, LOL, is that many others have benefitted from the discussion.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, when Cindy in a post a while back listed the reasons her D had for each school on her list, I got the idea that "a school others have heard of or poeple I know have selected", plus "cool" were her criteria. That's neat but not enough for such an important decision and match up.</p>
<p>If D really cares about schools others have heard of though, I don't think people in my neck of the woods have heard of College of Charleston. I only discovered it a year or two ago myself and I know about a lot of colleges.</p>
<p>Is this thread still going?</p>
<p>Honestly, with as little assistance as the OP has given in trying to recommend schools, my attitude is "to heck with it".</p>
<p>Life is too short to play these games. We should be giving advice to somebody that's actually cooperative in the endeavor.</p>
<p>Cindy summed up her d's circumstances very nicely by saying
[quote]
She will either be into a selective school, or she will be going to whatever school took her in the end.</p>
<p>It's not what I would do, but hey, it's not my life . . .
[/quote]
Sounds like as much as she may not agree with here dau's choice, it is her dau's choice. Hopefully she will have lots of good choices to make (and I mean that sincerely). If she doesn't have choices, she'll be at a school that was on her list, so it met her criteria.</p>
<p>Seems to me that no one's been coerced to participate in the discussion. cindy's been straightforward in communicating the reasons her d won't consider many of the suggestions given here, even if we find those reasons superficial or unfounded. It's just internet advice - the kid's free not to take it and deal with whatever falls out in April.</p>
<p>I think this has been a genuinely valuable thread for other posters whose kids may be similarly minded, if not perhaps quite so finicky.</p>
<p>Yes. This thread should be required reading for many, if not all, parents before starting on a college quest. It's gotten to be quite a "do's and don'ts" chapter on the "Choosing a College" technical manual.</p>
<p>Can I suggest a yellow sticky? Thanks for the list, pizzagirl -- it may be really helpful to get S2 a bit more focused. We'll have a better idea of schools when he has PSAT/SAT scores, but we need to start making progress on the bigger criteria.</p>
<p>frazzled1 stated:</p>
<p>
[quote]
cindy's been straightforward in communicating the reasons her d won't consider many of the suggestions given here, even if we find those reasons superficial or unfounded. It's just internet advice - the kid's free not to take it and deal with whatever falls out in April.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with frazzled1. To me, the most interesting part of this thread is the underlying assumption of some posters that a parent can and should "make" their student do a "rational" assessment of the schools for purposes of applying. </p>
<p>Since cindy appears to have offered her D quidance and suggestions and her D has "declined" to follow up on it, seems cindy needs to make sure that her D knows that D is the one who is responsible for the outcome, even if it goes "very bad" for her D.</p>
<p>BTY--the suggestions on how a motivated and willing student and/or student and parent can make rational assessments have been great. So cindy can feel that her thread has accomplished something good even if it didn't get her D to get onboard.</p>
<p>Great insights here for all students who will be making the decision process (even those who have already applied, in categorizing and prioritizing their preferences). Thanks!</p>