<p>Blossom: In my opinion, a student like the OP's daughter who likes Bucknell probably won't be attracted to Sarah Lawrence or Vassar. Colgate University & Skidmore are more similiar to Bucknell University. The 1300/1600 SAT I scores are approximations as written in the OP's earlier post referring to another poster's guesstimate. I agree that the composite for Brown is not a set in stone guideline, but a 25th percentile 1350/1600 SAT I is probably a very accurate guideline for the bare minimum for an unhooked applicant to Northwestern University. As the OP lives in the Washington D.C. area, I think, so unhooked applicants to Brown, Duke & Northwestern probably need much higher SAT I scores to be competitive.
The OP is offering too little info. to receive accurate recommendations.</p>
<p>Cold- I know Brown well so I was working on a list of Brown back ups. I've visited Bucknell once but don't know as many students there. Plus the mom is worried the daughter won't like Bucknell on a second visit.</p>
<p>Muehlenberg?</p>
<p>The discussion I had with my oldest was if you don't get into your first choice school what is the dimension you would first give on ... quality of students, majors available, feel of school, feel of students, geography, city/suburban/small town, size of school, how close to urban buzz, etc. Our kids also know they have one year at home if they don't go to college and then they get the boot ... so the hypothetical discussion had some teeth.</p>
<p>With 30 seconds thought these schools might work GW, American, Fordham, Villonova, BU, Northeastern, Brandeis, Provdience College, Seton Hall, etc. One other suggestion ... Princeton Review's college counselor has a great feature that if you are looking at one shool it tells you other schools that student is likely to like ... and these lists include peers, schools a little tougher to get into, and schools a little easier to get into ... maybe that will lead to some new ideas.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I think the key problem may be unrealistic criteria. She wants to stay in the northeast but not be snow bound? Urban but not very urban? Wants to avoid blonds? Perhaps if you work on the criteria, more schools would make the list.</p>
<p>Your daughter really needs to reconsider Wake Forest. It has tons of school spirit, is a Division I athletics school, is in a medium size town and she does not have to submit her standardized test scores! We have visited the campus twice (okay the second time D was attending a Forensics tournament) and it is beautiful and safe. Although they are less diverse than Vanderbilt (which, by the way is NOT full of blonde cheerleaders and is even more awesome than Wake is) they are really trying to increase that in their applicant pool. It is absolutely the size school your daughter wants and she would get great personal attention in small classes taught only by professors.
It is also quite a bit closer by car from you than Vanderbilt. I don't think she is competitive at all for Vanderbilt if her SAT is only 1300/1600. The median SAT for this year's freshman class was 1400, and 25% of that class had SATs 1500 or greater.</p>
<p>Blossom,</p>
<p>All good suggestions. Trouble is, we're flying blind at this point. She can ask around about these schools, she can visit web sites. But it is very hard to convince a kid that a match/safety is something she should apply to without a successful visit.</p>
<p>Maybe the answer is to take some wild stabs in the dark at match/safeties rather than more reaches.</p>
<p>FWIW, her guidance counselor thought the original list of eight was realistic. She's not going to cakewalk into Brown, but it's worth $60 to find out. </p>
<p>Regarding reaches, I think she feels like she'd rather apply and be rejected than not apply and then wonder what could have been. This makes some sense to me, actually. It's a lot easier to accept something other than your first choice when you know for certain that your first choice was never a choice, you know? </p>
<p>It's kind of like picking a spouse, eh? [j/k]</p>
<p>Blossom: I agree. My post above was referring to Northwestern University when I wrote that the 1350/1600 is a bare minimum for an unhooked applicant. I know of students admitted to Brown University with ACT scores of 24 & 25 which equal 1100/1600 & 1160/1300 on the SAT; so we are in agreement. Bucknell University is very preppy, fairly conservative, work hard/play hard school of mostly upperclass white students. Very similiar to Colgate University.</p>
<p>Cindysphinx,</p>
<p>You mention that she eliminates schools based upon people she knows who are applying there (and thereby projecting the hated qualities about them on the entirity of the school - yes I know silly). How about using the same dynamic to get her to buy into safety/match schools? What safety/match schools are the kids she identifies with (positively) applying to? Perhaps even getting the girls together for a tour might help with socializing her to accepting one of the schools?</p>
<p>As you said, you could find plenty of schools that "you" would find acceptable. The trick is finding ways of getting "her" to buy into them. You have a social problem, not an academic problem. Solving it will take a social solution.</p>
<p>BTW, this is not uncommon, especially with girls. I know goaliegirl has out of hand refused to visit 1 school, due to one particular student who is now there who while not a bad person, is not the type of person she would want to be around (projecting the sample of 1 to a whole campus community, as mentioned above). Not that it was a great match for her anyway, so I chose not to open that can of worms. Fortunately for us, that is a rare thing. It sounds like it is more common with yours though, unfortunately.</p>
<p>Catholic schools might be a good bet for your D. Villanova is an idea, did OP nix that one? Fordham, Seton Hall, Quinnipiac, Providence, Manhattan, St Joe's, Loyola, Fairfield. American is also a good pick and everyone I know who has looked at James Madison seems to like it. Ohio U is also a great school. NJIT is an idea. University of Richmond is well liked. U of Del is a possibility. Hofstra and Wagner are schools that kids I know have liked. Bentley in Boston.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>She sees classmates who are very different from her all excited about a school, and this turns her off to that school. All the blonde cheerleaders are applying to Vanderbilt and Wake Forest? Those schools are eliminated.>>></p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Oh that's an issue with my D too. This 'guilt by association' is tainting some really great schools for her. For example, there were a few kids who she did not think were terribly smart (and had no obvious hooks) that got into Cornell. Someone who was a bit of an airhead got into Northwestern. And here I am trying to convince her that these are really great schools and that she should consider these her 'reach' schools!</p>
<p>On the other hand she knows a kid who got into YHP but not Georgetown. Suddenly Georgetown's stock has gone up in my D's eyes!</p>
<p>Yeah, I'm going to go lean on her about Wake Forest again. I think the fit there is perfect, and we know kids who have gone there and love it. She's got some kind of block against it. We were <em>right there</em> in NC and she didn't want to visit.</p>
<p>I have no idea what went wrong with Villanova. She was sleep-deprived when we went there. :shrug:</p>
<p>Maybe I will have to apply a bit more pressure-masquerading-as-guidance. She's blowing off some awfully appropriate schools for some very silly reasons . . .</p>
<p>I"m guilty of turning down a school many years ago due to a person I could not stand being accepted there. Some things don't change, LOL. </p>
<p>When I think about it, my school back then were all reaches except the ones I did not really like. However, things change by the moment when you are that age. She is not really set on any particular school any more than most kids are, so I think she has a chance of adapting well to the situation whereever she may end up having her choices.</p>
<p>I would not eliminate the reach school, but maybe throw in some easy app safeties. I remember that my kids all had a school or two that were real quickies to complete. I think they were free on line apps for them as well. It was good to get an instant response from some of them. My oldest dismissed his safety school, but later felt that it would have been a respectable choice. Also he liked our state school, in time, not immediately. Things did settle by the end of the year for him.</p>
<p>Find out what the usual safeties are for the kids she likes. That may make some of the more palatable.</p>
<p>cptnofhtehouse,</p>
<p>We are Catholic.</p>
<p>As a result, D has visceral negative reaction to Catholic schools and could not get off the campus of BC fast enough.</p>
<p>See what I'm up against? This process has turned a normal, pleasant, well-adjusted good student into a knee-jerk, reactionary, rumor-mongering social climber. What the heck?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Bucknell University is very preppy, fairly conservative, work hard/play hard school of mostly upperclass white students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Which is why I am quite worried that she won't like it as much as she now thinks she does . . . .</p>
<p>
[quote]
See what I'm up against? This process has turned a normal, pleasant, well-adjusted good student into a knee-jerk, reactionary, rumor-mongering social climber. What the heck?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Geez, perhaps she could feel at home on CC? <jk></jk></p>
<p>Just my two cents but it seems to me that somewhere she is still dreaming of acceptances to the reach schools. She needs to completely understand the odds are about nil. I don't think she gets that. She is setting herself up for a big fall. If this were my child, I would point out that if none of the reaches come through and this is in all likelihood what will happen, then the option is a safety or community college.</p>
<p>She is more typical than you think. Also kids often vent private thoughts and feelings out. I know a young lady who is really twisting her mom's stomach around. She so wants her D to be happy, Most of these kids do settle into whatever school they pick and like it just fine the following year.</p>
<p>I would not look for trouble. If she likes Bucknell, leave it be. Let her like Bucknell. Lehigh is very similar, I am told.</p>
<p>Oh, don't worry. I won't be dissing Bucknell anytime soon. I'm trying to grow the list, not shrink it. Besides, she knows several cool people who went there and are happy. Who am I to say different.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Besides, she knows several cool people who went there and are happy. Who am I to say different.
[/quote]
Exactly why social engineering is the key to the problem and unfortunately Mom isn't (and neither is Dad in my situation).</p>
<p>Daughter wouldn't go to Duke (was accepted) when she found which girls were going. I did say to her that it is a big school. She said it wasn't big enough.:)</p>