<p>Just based on 4 kids I know, all from Maryland, regarding Villanova. For Fall 2007, 2 were headed for Journalism/English and indicated that on application. 2 were headed for Science - do not know if they indicated that on app. All four were from highly regarded Private Catholic high schools with excellent GPAs, several APs, at least 1370-1400/1600 SATs, very good ECs. All were waitlisted at Villanova and none got off the waitlist which was very long. I remember some of the schools where they were accepted: Fordham, Lafayette, Lehigh, St Joseph's, UMCP Honors, Bucknell, William & Mary.</p>
<p>I use these scatterplots to show high school students how competitive (or safe) a college might be. SAT scores (out of 2400) are plotted on one axis; GPA (out of 4.0) are plotted on the other. The red crosses are people who weren't accepted. The blue crosses were people who were accepted. </p>
<p>These results are from a California high school so will have colleges that won't apply to your situation. But try something like Northwestern or Brown and see where the "safe" area is--where everyone who had GPAs and test scores above a certain mark all got in.</p>
<p>AHS</a> c/o 2008</p>
<p>be considered reach schools. They are certainly schools to apply to but don't hold out high expectations., although an acceptance or two may come your way. My son has done the same as your child, he has loaded up in the schools he is in the middle 50%. It seems to be the accepted logic...2-3 reach schools as the bottom 25%(realy a-wing-and-a-prayer schools), 45 50%, and 2-3 top 25% safe schools. I tried to get my son to understand and apply more in to the top 25% as he has a better chance of acceptance but he wants those tough schools in the middle. I've informed him he could pitch a shutout there. You need to sit down with your child and have a pros and cons list to find out why she is having trouble with the choices. The bottom line is there are probably hundreds of schools that would make her happy.</p>
<p>Those scatterplots are great info for how your school does with acceptances. I like to use them also.</p>
<p>Not sure, but my impression is that Villanova is big on demonstrated interest in the university as many students are admitted with sub-1300/1600 SATs.</p>
<p>Great advice given here. I'll add that since she's clearly borderline for so many of her schools, maybe you can get some help so that no more sub par essays go out. A 25th percentile stat + mediocre essay = no chance.</p>
<p>An excellent post, Blossom. All this college talk can wear on kids and parents, too. Some of my students no longer talk college. They have their reasons -- burnout, worry that they do not have any chance of admission anywhere, too many AP classes to concentrate on, other ECs, part-time jobs, finances.</p>
<p>I do like your point about rejection of schools -- not based on those applying but those one meets in April. I have heard students say they won't apply to School A because so-and-so was applying there or because School A rejected so-and-so and his or her scores, GPA was better than mine. But how much better was the GPA or the score? Ten points? I pointed out to some students that if they had a defeated attitude before sending in the app, it will be seen in the words they write. I tell them that you just might be the puzzle piece that they seek, so do not give up before you start.</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>The learning is not, "hey this kid didn't get in anywhere and then he took a gap year and got into some fantastic schools including some with merit money". That's true- but a bit of an overstatment. Andi's son was a tippy top candidate with a weak application strategy.>>></p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>I disagree. He was a tippy top candidate who was lucky NOT to have a so-called safety school that was not right for him- where he might have felt pressured to go simply it was the only school that accepted him. Are you seriously saying that he would have been that much better off being a graduate of "Safety Univ class of 2010" as opposed to "MIT, class of 2011"? </p>
<p>I agree that every applicant should first look for a really safe safety school or two that he/she would be truly happy to attend. OP and D are on the right track, IMHO. They have visited 18 schools, researched many more, and made a list that the G.C. considers reasonable. D realizes that safety#2 is not a school she would want to attend. I think it is reasonable to drop that school from the list, and try to find a safety that she would like to attend.</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>The learning is not, "hey this kid didn't get in anywhere and then he took a gap year and got into some fantastic schools including some with merit money". That's true- but a bit of an overstatment. Andi's son was a tippy top candidate with a weak application strategy.>>></p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>I disagree. He was a tippy top candidate who was lucky NOT to have a so-called safety school that was not right for him- where he might have felt pressured to go simply it was the only school that accepted him. Are you seriously saying that he would have been that much better off being a graduate of "Safety Univ class of 2010" as opposed to "MIT, class of 2011"? </p>
<p>I agree that every applicant should first look for a really safe safety school or two that he/she would be truly happy to attend. OP and D are on the right track, IMHO. They have visited 18 schools, researched many more, and made a list that the G.C. considers reasonable. D realizes that safety#2 is not a school she would want to attend. I think it is reasonable to drop that school from the list, and try to find a safety that she would like to attend.</p>
<p>I apologize for the duplicate posts. Not intentional, and can't edit or delete out the posts. This has been happening to me erratically all day. Perhaps I'll shut up for a while and see if the problem resolves.</p>
<p>Vicarious-you missed my point. Not every kid is as unlucky as Andison to have all of his reaches and matches come up dry; not every kid is as lucky as Andison's was to get a do-over with an optimal outcome. If every kid we all knew who didn't get in anywhere ended up at MIT a year later, the town of Cambridge would be swallowed up by all the new dorms they'd have to build.</p>
<p>But as for OP's D- if her reaches are truly "out of reaches", then all the luck in the world is irrelevant.</p>
<p>But the question isn't whether D's reaches are impossible. Then this would be a "Chance Me!" thread, and it isn't. Not to mention that there is no way anyone can say that it is utterly impossible for a kid with her scores to be admitted to a top school. It would be a reach. We get that.</p>
<p>The question is how to get the child to be more open to putting the effort into applying to schools that do not fulfill a dream.</p>
<p>She's home, and I had some success with her already. "Success" being defined as "she listened to me for a few minutes."</p>
<p>Since I started this thread, I went to the web sites of a whole bunch of schools you all have suggested. I printed off the common application supplements to two schools that caught my eye. One is Colgate. The other is Wake Forest. </p>
<p>Colgate was to show her that the effort required to do a good app to Colgate is minimal, and Colgate is a place where we know other students are happily enrolled. Indeed, one such student had a 3.2 unweighted GPA -- so much for the school's lofty claims that their students are 3.7 out of 4.0. Still, she thinks it too small, too cold and too isolated.</p>
<p>Regarding Wake, I found their supplement intriguing and D's reaction to it telling. She said she was already familiar with it and considered it a horror. So many weird little questions, so much effort required. Apparently, she held the hand of a friend who wrestled with it for ED. Well, I happen to think that kind of supplement is kinda cool. It says that maybe cool people go to this school. It would not be difficult to knock out something interesting that reflects her personality. She is re-thinking it.</p>
<p>I wonder. If Wake doesn't require test scores, obviously the kids who submit scores are the ones with the highest scores. I wonder if this means their 50% range is misleadingly high . . . </p>
<p>But I digress . . . </p>
<p>The excellent strategy described above (just do the apps you are passionate about first and then fill out the list a bit more) won't work. She goes to a big public school. You have to submit a request for a transcript and recommendation weeks before the deadline. She needs to finalize her list of schools now, unfortunately . . . .</p>
<p>I get that you don't want to reveal her stats, but could you reveal her list, including the safety she dropped? We might be able to make more rational suggestions.</p>
<p>Colgate and Wake may not fit enough of your D's criteria. She needs to explore further. Show her the list of schools that I mentioned as well as some others mentioned. Even show her some of these posts! A school doesn't have to match up 100% with everything she wants in a college. If she wants ten things and finds schools that meet six of those things, it is worth applying. She is not deciding yet where to enroll. Very few schools match up in every which way a kid wants. Sometimes, a kid can give on the size of the school because they like the location, or the majors they offer are very cool for them. There are trade offs. Your D did not want snowy but picked Brown and Northwestern, same idea. She wanted more urban or near urban, but yet likes Bucknell. See what I mean? What about Brandeis? Lehigh? American?</p>
<p>Colgate is cold, small and isolated. It would be very hard to argue with that point of view.</p>
<p>You should also be aware that just because your GC has sent in the transcript and recomendations, your D is under no obligation to apply. So get a very generous list into the GC; stop referring to it as "final" or "finalize" or any nomenclature that suggests "done deal" to a vulnerable adolescent. Then once she's done with the app's she cares about, she can tackle the newer schools.</p>
<p>I know kids who have made a forced ranking of their criteria which really seems to help (similar personality to your D). That way they can view their thinking in a non-judgemental way. My niece wanted colleges with "hair friendly" weather, i.e. not too much rain, not too much humidity. However- being within a 3 hour drive of home was more important by the time she ranked her preferences-- and if your family is in DC, you are pretty much out of luck with good hair campuses. So she agreeably stuck her hair preference down in the "fudge factor" category, i.e. if she were deciding between two similar schools, the one with better hair would win out, but it would not determine the outcome for a dis-similar comparison.</p>
<p>Get her to try to rank? At a minimum, it will give you both a laugh to see this stuff on paper and ratchet down the anxiety a bit.</p>
<p>I don't know your D's profile but I had mentioned Elon as a Match school (guessing) and I see in an earlier post on another thread, that you visited Elon. Did she like it enough to apply? It seems like it would balance the list some more. I also think you visited Lehigh. Any thoughts on your D's part. My kid who went to Brown (I believe with higher stats than your D), had Lehigh as one of her safeties and got merit aid there as well. Perhaps for your D, it would be a match.</p>
<p>Just a thought, Cindy. See if you can unhook her from the negativity. Can you see if your dau will focus on what she <em>does</em> want in a school rather than what she <em>doesn't</em>? Maybe its just me, but I am feeling a little bit like we are reading Goldilocks and the 3 bears (this one's too big.. this one's too small..) (jk) Sometimes it helps to take a piece of paper and draw a line down the middle, writing the pros on one side and the cons on the other. Sometimes when they actually see this, they can see a better balance, maybe the cons don't look like absolute deal-breakers, or maybe one particular absolutely puts a school on or off the list.
There is a great map called "Professor Pathfinders map of US colleges and Universities" (or something close to that). I can't put my finger on mine at the moment (which has me a bit dismayed-- its a great resource). Not only does it show all the colleges locations, but it has, on the back, some basic stats about each school. Great compact source of visual info.
My other favorite resource is the Yale Daily New's "Insiders Guide to Colleges". It tents to load on the top schools, but definitely gives the kids a feel for what it is like to be at about 320 different schools. IMO, its sorta like the kids version of teh Fiske Guide. These resources were invaluable for my kids and many friends kids.</p>
<p>And as an aside, Andison almost.... almost... finished an application to one last school his first year that he did apply to and get into his second year. It was a good school he would I suspect have been happy at had it been his only admit his first go 'round.</p>
<p>Ok-- found my Professor Pathfinders map. A quick perusal of schools in the area hit upon Goucher and Gettysburg, that might meet some of the OP daughter's criteria. I also thought of Miami of Ohio, but it might be a little too preppy.</p>
<p>hi jym: where did you get this map? when I googled, I only could come up with it for individual colleges.....</p>
<p>I had mentioned Goucher as a possible safety school for her D. I think it is a really fine school.</p>