What did she decide?
your kid has/had lots of good options
Money aside, has she visited all the schools or at least spent some virtual time researching the campuses and neighboring town? I’d also have her speak with current students, alumni and faculty to help her make a decision. She can also create a list of criteria important to her and weight each with a score. That way she can start to eliminate schools or see certain ones bubble to the top for whatever reason. We did that during the application process and it helped us to work together on narrowing down choices.
Update…She ended up getting an extension somehow until Friday. Friday’s the prom so our deadline is Thursday night. I think even DD doesn’t want to wreck her prom night dealing with the decision.
My husband and I have been back and forth on this; yesterday we spoke with each other and DD for literally hours. Me and DH decided that even ignoring the finances, Richmond would be the best place for her. American is great for International Relations and Communications, (and Public Affairs/Poli Sci to an extent) however DD said yesterday we’re ignoring what she decided was her first choice, Sociology, and it’s true that she has been talking a lot more about that lately then Communications or IR. If she definitely wanted to do one of those then American might be the place, however she said she doesn’t want to major in IR (which she did say a few months ago) but wanted to minor in it. And even though I think that Communications would be a great field for her, she’s not sure she wants to do that either. So I think Richmond is better even though their Sociology dept. is not as large, it has the same number of courses and is probably better. It’s also likely better for other things (she also mentioned Bio. and other science, also Education, as she’s in the back of her mind considering occupational therapy or SLP).The
I also realized that she may not have a very good idea exactly what IR and Sociology is. I downloaded the material for MIT’s Intro. to International Relations (they put all their courses online for free) and told her about some foreign policy journals she could read. The MIT course would probably be harder than at American but this way she gets a good idea. I also looked at the course; I have some IR experience as well as discussed with how some IR intersects with Sociology but a lot of ti doesn’t; how she would need to take economics (which she hates) for IR, etc.
The decision chart idea is good; I did one and showed her how to do it (actually we showed her before but she didn’t do it).
We also said as of Sunday she needed to meet with us every night about this; we had not been pushing it enough because she usually is extremely responsible (really!) about doing things and we don’t need to push her. She has a p.t. job, gets excellent grades, and is involved in clubs and until now, we’ve never had to push her to do homework/attend class/go to work, etc.
Generalized anxiety doesn’t seem to be the issue because she really does seem to be (and says she is) happy and social. However, making decisions has always been difficult for her, even decisions about little things. I think the problem is that this is the first really major decisions she’s ever had to made, there’s no right or wrong answer, and the two schools really are very different. The money of course is an issue although I don’t want it to be the deciding factor.
So thank you so much for everyone’s help and I’ll write back when more is known.
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Fogrot to mention that Richmond does have a semester in D.C. program at AU and she can take a couple of the more specialized communication courses there, and/or over the summer (we live in a city with a couple of schools w/excellent programs) and/or study abroad. Richmond doesn’t have an IR minor, which is a factor, but she can always do a DIY minor or make her own. I don’t think that what she wants to minor in should be the deciding factor as to where she attends. So it’s really just the Communication courses that she’d be missing at Richmond (it has a Comm. major but it’s a different emphasis), and she’s not as sure about doing that subject even though DH and I think it would be a great field for her. She may also not be able to do as many internships - AU allows you to take up to 3 - but I’m not sure that should be the deciding factor either. But if she sticks to what she decided (Sociology), Richmond is better so I’m going with that.
It would be a big change from where we’d been assuming she would go for several months, but our own decision chart plus several hours of talking led to the conclusion that Richmond would be the best place for all the above reasons. It t really is hard to give up that dream - maybe even more so for us than her b/cause I think she’d really love D.C. - but Richmond sounds like it has excitement also (I haven’t been there, DD and DH have gone). Also now that I think of it, part of the issue might be that we’re all familiar already with D.C. and UA (DH and I both lived there, she’s visited twice on school trips and twice to see AU) and as said there has only been 1 visit to Richmond.
Good luck with the decision! I’m sure you’ve already done this, but Richmond and AU have such different vibes. Get her to really think about that. City versus suburban. Some kids want that city experience. I thought Richmond was a beautiful campus and a top notch school - we were extremely impressed. However, it’s definitely a preppy vibe and I believe you’re living on campus all 4 years.
She can always spend her summers as an unpaid intern on the Hill with the thousands of other high school and college kids doing that.
Boy, you are really slicing the bologna too thin if it’s coming down to one having the “wrong” emphasis in classes, or having to take econ, etc.
Fact- she’s very likely to change her ideas about what to major in once she gets to college and actually has to take classes. If she doesn’t like econ, how does she feel about statistics? She’ll need it for Sociology.
Fact- There isn’t a single school in America where you can’t major in IR. It will be called something different, but it’s there- a track in the Poli Sci department (Harvard calls it Government); a track in the Econ department, or a track in one of the area studies departments (interested in Asia, Latin America, etc.)
Don’t let the tail wag the dog here.
Hoping this comes to a happy conclusion asap @DragonBoatGirl ! I spent a lot of time this year on the Musical Theatre board and those kids bust their asses to get into schools… and then have a heck of a time choosing. One parent said - flip a coin. If one school winning the coin toss results in a hugely disappointed kid, the other is the right choice. LOL. Given the fact that both her schools are great fits I think I’d make the executive decision to save money. But I’m sure you guys will get there in your own time and I hope you can breathe a huge sigh of relief when you do…and move on!
The coin flip thing works.
$80k more from Richmond is quite a deal.
@blossom crushes it again. These are both very good schools with broad offerings, including DD’s (pretty common) current areas of interest. There’s no wrong answer academically, so go focus on fit.
This seems to be a late-rising issue of watching others too much and doubting her own interests and feelings. Think back to how each campus felt during visits, think about what might be lost by choosing the other, and forget about what anyone else is doing. The last part is key, as “rankings” are just a distraction if you’re on the wrong campus. Good luck.
Oh, and one anecdote from my children.
The oldest was an outstanding student and an athlete, and had worked her way through issues of what level to play (she chose D3) and sorted through a long list of schools to get down to two places where she liked the teams, coaches and feel of the campuses. Unfortunately one was wildly different from her criteria (away from home, excellent academics, top competition, etc.) The sole reason it was under consideration was that her club coach was there. The clearly better choice by most measures was across the country instead of a mile from home, had avg ACT scores that were four or five points higher, played at a much higher level, had a top 20 dining center and on and on.
As we rolled into spring one of her friends sat down with her and said “What are you looking at? Tell me about these schools.” DD talked for a bit, and then dear, dear Sophia said “You’ve just used the word Better seven times in the past three minutes. Stop this.” She accepted within a day.
Although I have 2 URichmond grads and it is a terrific school, we also know other students who have thrived at American U and loved being in DC. A motivated student will find peers at both schools. Both schools have opportunities for adding minors or a double major, and I do know this is very common at UR. Students at UR do not actually declare a major until the end of freshman year, and as late as the end of sophomore year, in keeping to its LAC structure for undergrad students.
The biggest differences are sizes (8200 UGrads + 5500 grad. at AU vs 3200 Ugrad at UR + 800 grad.) and locations, large city vs. Suburban close to small city. It sounds like your D visited both Unis, and will have data to assess the best “fit” for her needs. The feel of the campus is important, as it will be her home for 4 years.
Both unis have high rates of study abroad. At UR, 92% of undergrad students live on campus, which helps build a strong sense of community, but not may be an important factor for your D. There are very nice on campus apartments where upperclassmen usually live.
A couple more shameless plugs for UR: every student is guaranteed a $4k stipend which may used toward an internship or a research project, and the Sophomore Scholars in Residence program https://livinglearning.richmond.edu/ssir/index.html
is also awesome. Students take year long courses in various academic interest areas, live together in a dorm, travel aboad (or domestically) together, and complete projects as a group. All extra costs are covered by UR.
An $80k difference is significant for most families, and could have a big impact on lifestyle, retirement plans, supporting other kids, or the ability to help with graduate school down the road.
I like the idea of using a decision tree. It should help your D focus on the factors which are really most important to her, as well as your family. AU and UR are both wonderful options to be considering!
Just an aside, but generalized anxiety and happy/social are not mutually exclusive. My daughter has GAD and is also successful, outgoing, happy, enthusiastic, and has a million friends. She also really struggles with decisions, big and small. I’m not saying your daughter has anxiety, just that being a happy, socialized extrovert doesn’t preclude it.
OP:
I really think either of these would be a fine choice so don’t worry about making a “perfect” choice…just make sure they are making a reasonable choice. Both of these are reasonable.
I would not make her meet every night…I would just say that you want her to choose by Thursday dinner and you are happy with either choice and are available to chat.
@milgymfam I knew my DD has trouble with decisions…so when we were looking at colleges and she kept comparing every other college to this one, I suggested she apply ED as it was affordable and then she wouldn’t have to make the decision in April.
@bopper there was a school that was clearly a great fit for my D on every level, so we encouraged ED for the same reason. As decision day approached she admitted that on top of wanting to be accepted to this school, she also didn’t want to have to decide between other schools. I was glad it worked out for her.
Sounds to me like part of the indecisiveness comes from the high level of parental involvement, or perhaps the family style of decision making. I’m thinking that this student is feeling a lot of pressure to not only make a decision, but also make the “right” decision and one that can be rationally justified. That’s a recipe for indecision – people who are decisive are more likely to act on their gut-level feelings and just go with them. There’s also a big difference between those who will decide based on “it’s good enough and it feels good” vs. those who want to analyze every possible factor and figure out what is best (or better).
So maybe it would a lot better if the parents just told the daughter: they are both excellent choices; we will support you either way – instead of reinforcing the idea that this is a decision requiring hours upon hours of discussion, or that there is some sort of risk of making a horribly wrong decision at this point.
I agree with @calmom re: the required nightly meeting with mom and dad. If this student’s indecision wasn’t driving her parents “insane,” it might be helpful to meet with them. But, with that level of frustration as an undercurrent, even if it isn’t expressed in each nightly meeting, I vote no. I prefer calmom’s idea of a supportive statement instead: “These are both excellent options and we will support you either way,” and the offer to speak further with the student if she so desires. My $0.02.
If you aren’t concerned about the $80k, let her go to her first choice. But it’s hard to say no to a school many regard as better, which also costs $80k less. It’s not $80k less for a worse school. If she flat out hates Richmond, that’s one thing, but if she doesn’t, in this case, I think I would play the parent card and decide for her. I mean, she did apply there, after all.
Seriously, you might find that she will be relieved to have the decision made for her. All the tears and indecision strike me as pretty normal for a teenager who is making the biggest decision of her young life. And if she really hates the decision, then you have an answer. Meanwhile, it might be good to have her remove herself from other waitlists.
Did you ever do the Myers Briggs Personality Type Inventory?
You will find that some people are
Judgers
and some are
Perceivers
Do you prefer a more structured and decided lifestyle (Judging) or a more flexible and adaptable lifestyle (Perceiving)?
Maybe you are going crazy because you just want it to be decided.
She may want to have options.
But you are right, at some point a decision must be made.