dd cheerleader ivy bound?

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm pretty sure that all of the Ivies have cheerleading. I posted on the other thread about having seen a feature story in a cheerleading magazine a few years back about Ivy League cheerleaders. </p>

<p>Although my D was a cheerleader in h.s., along with lots of other activities to which she devoted a lot of time (math team, youth symphony, etc.), she does not cheer for Harvard. Too many other things that interest her there. Quite a number of her friends at Harvard cheered in h.s., and most of them were captains or co-captains. At least at my kids' h.s., being a captain involved leadership, including such things as choreographing routines, running cheer clinics for younger kids.</p>

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<p>
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And isn't GW Bush a former Yale cheerleader?

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<p>It wouldn't surprise me. As a little girl, I remember my dad taking me to a football game of my dad's high school alma mater, an all boys school, playing its crosstown rival, another all boys school. I was surprised to see cheerleading squads on both sides--it had never occurred to me that boys could be cheerleaders. My dad told me it was quite a respected position and that both schools were very elite private schools.</p>

<p>So I learned early on in life (I would have been around 6 or 7, this was back in the early 1960s) not to stereotype cheerleaders. </p>

<p>Melanie Wood, now a Princeton grad student in mathematics with a very distinguished record, was an enthusiastic cheerleader and student government leader in high school, breaking more stereotypes, as her bio below makes clear.</p>

<p>USATODAY.com</a> - In sum: Let go, look forward</p>

<p>Ivy League admissions officers certainly didn't stereotype or dismiss her because of her cheerleading--she was admitted to Harvard, but chose to attend Duke for undergrad, where she was able to double major in math and theater.</p>

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<p>icy-I think all Ivies offer cheerleading for football and basketball, but not "competitive cheerleading teams". It's a club, not a sport.</p>

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<p>Athletics</a> Links - Cheerleading - PennAthletics.com—The Official Website of University of Pennsylvania Athletics Just a quick search turned up this link, which indicates that at least the Penn squad competes at UCA competitions, at least some years. I would guess that some of the other ones do, too. You could probably go to the UCA or other competitive cheer site and look up which schools compete there.</p>

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<p>New</a> Page 1 Looks like Cornell's team competes too.</p>

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<p>If they're competing; the college should be recruiting!!!! I guess the teams are co-ed so no Title whatever it is violation.</p>

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<p>"Clubs" can and do compete in many sports, including cheerleading. The fact that a sport is club rather than varsity means it usually gets less institutional support from the college and may not have a professional coach, but this in turn creates leadership opportunities for the students, who must deal with fundraising from informal alumni networks, travel logistics, etc.</p>

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<p>"Getting up early and spending afternoons and weekends practicing one's instrument or one's sport shows leadership."</p>

<p>I don't think so--it shows commitment, but you can't show leadership without leading other people. I continue to think that participation in sports, including cheerleading, is less likely to show leadership than other activities. (A football quarterback is probably an exception--but what is the equivalent in other sports? You can't assume because somebody is team captain that they actually have to--or get to--exert any leadership.) I am not "denigrating" cheerleading, but I am pointing out that it, like other sports, can demonstrate certain qualities, but not others, including some others that are highly valued at selective schools. Also, I think it's pretty obvious that it's better to be a star in a sport for which the college recruits than a star in a sport for which the college doesn't recruit. Don't you think a champion fencer is likely to do better at Ivy admissions than a champion bowler, all other things being equal?</p>

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<p>I don't think so--it shows commitment, but you can't show leadership without leading other people.</p>

<p>-You have to be really really happy on cold rainy days and dazzle a miserable crowd with your happiness. That's leadership! Actually, lots of cheerleaders end up going into jobs where motivational ability is desired.</p>

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<p>Leadership can be found in any group situation, but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the official "title". You can be a class president who does nothing. You can be a "nothing" and start some program or initiative that really takes off. You can be the team captain and be an unpopular creep (sometimes this happens when the captains are chosen by people outside of the team structure). You can be a team member and be the well-liked, highly respected, unofficial "leader" of the team. Ask any sponsor of a high school club or college administrator who works with student government and they'll tell you- having the position does not make you a leader.</p>

<p>That's when it's up to you to communicate in your essays and descriptions the actual role you took within the organizations you belonged to. Also, it will be reflected in letters from team coaches, teachers, and GCs. If you've taken a leadership role in cheerleading, whether or not you were the captain, you should demonstrate this in your application with some specific examples/anecdotes, and have your GC or team sponsor write something as well.</p>

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<p>
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I continue to think that participation in sports, including cheerleading, is less likely to show leadership than other activities.

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I completely disagree. It is not the nature of the activity itself that determines leadership; it is the participant's role on the team, or club, or organization. Every team sport has an equivalent to the QB, such as point guard in basketball. The captains of sports teams are usually chosen because of their leadership qualities, so that's why every college application asks if kids have served in that role. </p>

<p>If a kid organizes a charity fundraiser, arranges permits, advertising, and volunteer scheduling, he's a leader. If he shows up with a hammer or paintbrush & joins in, he's a valuable volunteer, but not a leader. I think it's the same for any activity. There will be chiefs & indians, and both are needed. Sports is an excellent venue for leadership qualities to emerge.</p>

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<p>I agree that you can show leadership in any EC, but leadership is more inherent to some ECs than others. Different ECs suggest different things. Being a member of the NHS suggests academic achievement, but it says little about leadership or commitment. Being an Eagle Scout suggests leadership and commitment, but says little about academic achievement. Being President of the Science Club, perhaps, suggests all three. Some ECs will suggest that you are interested in helping others (Habitat for Humanity), others won't (Equestrian Club). Being a member of the Comic Book Club probably doesn't show much for any of these. My point is that you may need more than one EC to fully demonstrate the sterling qualities that you have.</p>

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<p>Hunt wrote:

[quote]
Well, I'll add just a bit of a contrarian note. While cheer (like any other sport) can show a high level of commitment and passion, it is unlikely to show much leadership (since the coach is the primary leader), and, of course, it does not shed any light on the student's academic interests and abilities. Also, at most top schools, a cheerleader is not going to be a recruited athlete. So, yes, it can be a good EC, but it probably shouldn't be the only one.

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<p>I agree with Chedva and others here....how does someone on a cheerleading squad show less leadership than someone on a sports team? If you feel a captain of a sports team shows leadership, how does that differ than the captain of the cheer squad who must lead in organizational ways and likely choreographs routines, and so forth? I see no difference with any other sport. Also, cheerleading today often involves competitive teams and a lot of commitment. It is pretty physical and technical. I'm not so into cheerleading or anything and our school doesn't have cheerleaders, but I definitely do not see a difference in the commitment and leadership involved compared to some other sport. </p>

<p>Then you say it doesn't shed light on academic interests/abilities. Are ECs that are connected to academics the only ones of value? Uh oh...my kids would have been doomed as their ECs were varsity sports, theater, dance, voice, band, student government, and so on. None were academic in nature. ECs connected to academics are not of more value than those connected to passions unrelated to academics. </p>

<p>Then you mention that cheerleading is not going to be a recuited athlete. Most athletes are not recruited. Should they then not participate in sports? The fact is that adcoms will value long term committments and achievements in sports or cheerleading, even if they are not recruited. Further, these kids will contribute to club teams no campus. My D did three varsity sports in high school and achieved in all three in our region. She was not a recruited athlete. She happens to attend an Ivy and is on a varsity sport team (and has made the regional and national championships each year), and has also been on a club team in another sport that competes intercollegiately. Her reason for doing sports had NOTHING to do with possibilities of eventual recruitment! She has done her sports her entire life out of passion for the sports simply. </p>

<p>By the way, most Ivies have a cheerleading squad. It may be a club sport. It may compete. All colleges, including Ivies, are looking for students who will contribute to the various organizations on campus. This isn't about "recruiting." Colleges want musicians for the orchestra, newspaper editors for the newspaper, athletes for the teams, cheerleaders for the squad, political activists for political organizations, dancers for the dance clubs, actors for the theater groups, students for the school government, etc. Cheerleading is no different in this respect. </p>

<p>As far as having not just one EC....that's true....this OP's child certainly could be a cheerleader and be involved in something else such as student government, if she wants. But it won't because cheerleading didn't look "good enough." </p>

<p>I also agree with someone else who mentioned that there are many ways to show leadership and they don't all have a title like "captain" or "president." For instance, I have a child who initiated and created her own musical production that she put on at school which had never been done by students at our school in the past. It involved lots of leadership....writing the show, musically directing, hiring the band and getting the music, casting, producing, advertising, directing, choreographing, etc. Or another example was that she was very involved in dance at our studio. One thing she was in was a select tap dance troupe that performed around the region. There are no captains in dance (this is not a competitive dance troupe). However, while normally the teachers choreograph the pieces, she took on choreographing several of them and teaching the troupe. That is considered leadership. Nobody voted her as any of these things. She initiated them and led them. Someone on a cheer squad could do the same.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, a lot of kids drop out of worthwhile activities because as a senior they aren't chosen to be "a leader" so they focus on those activities they think will "mean something" on a college app. One of the service clubs my daughter is in appears to have about fifteen "leaders" - all the juniors and seniors- probably for this reason!</p>

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<p>I also agree with you, doubleplay that leadership can be shown without the title and that a title doesn't always mean you are a leader. The OP mentioned student government. Sometimes a kid with a title in student government was merely elected on popularity but accomplishes nothing.....(SOME...NOT ALL). My D was on student government just as a senator but was not elected to a named positiion. It turned out that she spearheaded two policy initiatives at her school that were huge time commitments over a couple of years, of her own intitiative and often working by herself but reporting back to the Senate, and these involved researching and writing policies for the school which went through faculty review (presentations she made to faculty), presentations to the principal and eventually her presenting her researched and written new policies to the School Board which adopted them as official school policy. This was on her resume and some recs even spoke about how no kid at the school had ever effected change like that in policies and actually accomplished something by leading and initiating, even though she was not the one with the title (usually the student government doesn't accomplish a whole lot). She also was an athlete, musician and dancer. She didn't just do one thing.</p>

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<p>There is a tendency that I have learned by reading CC for years....of kids doing what they feel looks good for the college app. This concept was foreign from my own kids' experiences. They did what they were interested in and most of their activities started when they were very young. They never discussed what would look good on the app. They never picked an activity for that reason. They didn't change into any all of a sudden later in HS for college reasons. I am 100% positive if they had NEVER attended college, they would have done the very same ECs, out of love for those ECs. They are continuing most of these in college as well. </p>

<p>Also, some teams or groups my kids have been on don't have leaders by vote (not all my D's sports teams even have captains). But they were leaders and achievers. It is not all about the title but about what you accomplish and can show that you have accomplished. My kids didn't talk of doing anything to get into college (except they knew they needed to do their best in academics). When it came time to apply, they simply documented all they had done. In my view, that is how it should be. But this "what EC should I do to look good for college?" is rampant on CC and apparently in some communities. It is an eye opener for me.</p>

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<p>Leadership can, of course, be shown by many things. M d's primary EC was dance, but she isn't going to be a professional dancer. And she wasn't on a competitive team. But she was the student assistant in a number of classes, with kids from 8-12 years old. Anyone who's ever tried to keep control of such classes knows that it requires leadership! She also taught youngsters in various other venues. While she never had a title, she did show leadership.</p>

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<p>Chedva...I agree with you about dance. Both my kids have been heavily involved in dance since they were tots. Our dance studio does not have competitive teams (doesn't believe in dance as a competition) but does have an audition only repertory dance troupe that performs around the region. One of my kids was on that troupe. Both were on the selected tap dance troupe too. These troupes were leaders at the studio. Younger D choreographed some of the dances as she has a penchant for that and so that is leading....and teaching it to her peers. My older D was asked to be the teacher for a semester in her senior year for a middle school aged tap dance class because the professional teacher had to take a leave for family reasons. They hired my D to teach and she was paid in fact. That was a lot of responsibility and involved leading/teaching and also she had to come up with the "lessons" and then make up the choreographed dances for the annual show for this class. Other D occasionally was a sub teacher for children's classes. Dance doesn't have elected "titles." Most of my kids' activities did not (even my D's ski team and tennis team had no captains but recs spoke of her leadership in those teams). </p>

<p>Also, leadership is not the only thing the colleges value in an EC endeavor. Signficant contributions to the activity and long term dedication matter. Also, achievements matter. In music, it may mean they made All States. In theater, they may get the lead. In their sport, they may place in the state championship, etc.</p>

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<p>There are cheering scholarships, by the way. My niece was awarded one at a school in the Carolinas. She was always involved in gymnastics & competitive cheering. She even spent a few seasons as an NFL cheerleader, but gave it up as it began to interfere with her career. I suspect her younger sister will follow her lead. Cheering is not my "thing," but these girls are incredible athletes & love what they do.</p>

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<p>Hunt:</p>

<p>The problem is that you interpret "leadership" literally; adcoms do not. Adcoms need a concise shorthand to describe the attributes they are looking for, but those attributes are multiple, such as commitment, self-motivation, drive, ability to work with others, etc...
Furthermore, leadership as an advantage in the admissions sweepstakes is over-rated. In my experience and opinion.</p>