Dealing with Asian parents?

<p>@starbright: I guess… sometimes my parents show some appreciation for me but its usually criticism. Hopefully 10 years from now they’ll tell me that they did it just to make me work harder. And the reason Asian parents only compare their kids to other Asian kids is that they want to find examples of people who are the products of “successful” (aka Asian/Tigermom) parenting. This only serves to strengthen their belief that “the Asian way is the right way.”</p>

<p>Maybe Mr. and Mrs. Tiger Parents are projecting their own perception of success or failure upon their kids. To them, nothing short of an MCAT of 46 will be sufficient. My 30 years of experience as a Tiger husband have shown me as much.</p>

<p>Since I’m the furthest living creature from a Tiger (European born super-relaxed) I have seen what the expectations are to our half Tiger kids. DD1 missed the Tiger genes altogether and excelled in arts and music. It was easier to get DD1 admitted to architecture with a scholarship at a good flagship state school than to get Mrs. Tiger to agree to it. DD2 inherited all the Tiger genes and is either a stunning academician or a master of winging it (her words), having no B’s in 3 years of middle school (and being very good at it) despite little to no effort. The Tiger plan for DD2 is medical school (is there any other?) while methinks Law School and DD2 wants to major in being a perpetual student (something both her parents were very good at).</p>

<p>So, OP, hang in there, buddy. Tiger parents are fun, the food is awesome, and thankfully they can be ‘convinced’ to see the right answers once all other alternatives have been exhausted. I’m sure your parents want the best for you, just like Mrs. Tiger here wants the best for her daughters - except her own experiences have an overbearing influence on reality. After 25 years in IT with a bunch of companies, she’s convinced only medical school is appropriate. Never mind what happens if you’re not cut out to be a doc. </p>

<p>Just like you, DD1 received her share of criticism from Mrs. Tiger, or worse. So, she decided to use her 1st semester of architecture to ‘show’ Mom what she’s really all about. And show she did. Thru hard work at a level I thought impossible - and I was a professional student - and accomplishment - glowing design reviews and grades - she finally convinced Mrs. Tiger that (a) architecture is a worthwhile endeavor and (b) that she’s good at it. Even better, she is showing no signs of slowing down. </p>

<p>So, again, hang in there. Find your flagship school or Ivy or directional state or what have you and follow your star. Put that creativity to good use, don’t alienate your parents, and once you’re in college, show them. You will be surprised.</p>

<p>I feel you dude. If it makes you feel any better, millions of asian kids are going through the same thing as you every single day. Through lots of therapy, I eventually learned that you have to place your own self value in your own mind. Take everything they say and other people say with a grain of salt. Ultimately, you are in control of yourself and you can choose to feel belittled by their criticisms or keep thinking positively about yourself. Like Eleanor Roosevelt said, “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>State flagship-level universities are full of Asian students (e.g. Berkeley, UCLA). So are non-flagship-level state universities (e.g. San Jose State). Would your parents consider all of those students to be “worthless disgraces”?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Possibilities:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Their social circle is mostly or exclusively Asian, so they hear about the other Asian kids, but not about the other non-Asian kids.</p></li>
<li><p>They assume that universities have Asian quotas, so that their kids must compete against other Asian kids to get into universities.</p></li>
<li><p>They racistly assume that non-Asian kids are not competitive and do not matter.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>

</p>

<p>Did the music involve the Tiger-approved instruments (piano and/or violin), or did it involve other instruments or non-instrument performance (singing)?</p>

<p>For parents who behave like that, it would not help to point out their own relative failures (only a 500K house). They are experts at not taking personal responsibility. “Of course we don’t have the biggest house, I was raised in a mud hut on a hillside in Hubei, those other parents got into university through the backdoor with connections”.</p>

<p>I also doubt the theory that they behave like that out of extra special love for their kids. I see it as an indication of how much they love themselves (we are so wonderful that how could we have kids that are not number 1 in everything?).</p>

<p>AND that behavior is an insurance policy - if the kid is an utter failure, they can say well look I was as strict as anyone, so its the kid’s own innate moral deficiencies. If they were more easy-going and the kid is a failure anyway, they will have to accept the blame from friends and relatives.</p>

<p>OP - just do “whatever” rough essay drafts for your parents’ “deadlines” so they will leave you in peace to get the real creative work done on college apps. Your job now is to humor your parents, don’t engage in conflict, and focus on plotting your way out of the house. Good luck!</p>

<p>The Turbo girls both did the approved instrument (piano :-))… DD1 was saved by the bell in the sense that her mom is a huge art lover and started mellowing when she saw DD1’s success in art competitions and the like. </p>

<p>The key is to not let other people convince you of your worth (or lack thereof). Show Them. Even by lax European standards I was a horrible student in HS and have the report cards to prove it - never stopped me from ‘seeing my star’ and persevering.</p>

<p>It might help if you think of this as cultural rather than personal. I think part of the problem for folks like the OP is that they are experiencing one culture at home, and a contrasting culture at school and elsewhere. They can see what their parents don’t, which is that various different styles of parenting have both positive and negative results. So I would suggest just reminding yourself that your parents aren’t acting this way because they love you more or less than other parents love their kids–they’re doing it because they come from a culture that taught them to behave in this way.</p>

<p>I feel like I grew up in a wrong environment.
Where I live, most Asian parents are professionals such as doctors and professors and so on and I did not see much of “tiger parenting”. My Asian friends did what they liked to do. Some of them were musicians, runners, soccer players and dancers. Other than math club, my ECs had nothing to do with academics or college admissions. My (STEM Ph D) parents never told me to be a doctor or engineer. So, all this discussion about “tiger parenting” is very foreign to me.</p>

<p>OTOH, my parents “forced” me to do 1-2 hours per day of math during summer breaks. If that is an example of “tiger parenting”, then I am glad my parents were tiger parents.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Why? You’re still very successful by anyone’s standards for an 18 year old (having gotten into U Chicago and some other pretty fabulous, top notch schools. You should be grateful you didn’t have that kind of pressure!</p>

<p>PG, something tells me that was tongue-in-cheek.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Don’t you think it’s part of your responsibility as a father to try to modulate this kind of behavior, versus sit back and let Mrs. Tiger berate the cubs?</p>

<p>I would say that your post is an interesting essay, in and of itself, that you can use.</p>

<p>By the way, I know plenty of people who got into medical school, for example, from lower ranked schools, so explain to your parents that even if you did go to the state flagship, you can still get into a great graduate school. Plenty of kids go to their state’s flagship university for financial reasons, even National Merit Scholar winners.</p>

<p>For example, I know a kid who went to University of Florida undergraduate, but then went to University of Pennsylvania Law School.</p>

<p>My son has a 2300 SAT, and only has a 3.6 or 3.7 unweighted gpa, so he has a similar situation to yours. </p>

<p>I am a jewish father (my son is 1/2 jewish). Between his mother and I, we have 7 university degrees. So he is under some pressure, no doubt, to get into a top school. But nothing like the crazy pressure your parents are exerting on you. If he only gets into a middle range school, I figure he will do well there, and still get into a good graduate school, perhaps the same graduate school that he would have gotten into from the higher ranked undergraduate schooll </p>

<p>Going to a top school is not a guaranty of anything. My mother’s second husband was an MIT graduate, and he was living in a trailer park when she met him. </p>

<p>All of my high school friends, including me, went to Ivy Schools, but the “dumb” one, who went to Cortland State, was the one who became a multi-millionaire.</p>

<p>Explain to your parents that your test scores still place you in the top 1%.</p>

<p>OP, for perspective, I have a classic novel to recommend, but please read it only when it doesn’t steal time from college apps! </p>

<p>“The Chosen” by Chaim Potok portrays a father/son relationship in which the Hasidic father’s method of parenting “in silence” causes tremendous pain to the son throughout adolescence. While “silence” might sound like a blessed alternative to you at this moment, compared to streams of criticism, the point is that some parents think an approach they know is unpleasant will engender better character in their offspring. It’s wrong-headed IMO, but the idea that your situation is cultural is my parallel. Spoiler alert: Only when the boy begins to make moves on his own, he begins to “show” the lessons are internalized and there is a reconciliation. </p>

<p>If you prefer movies, it also came out in film with Maximillian Schell and Rod Steiger (for the older readers who might, just might, recognize those names).</p>

<p>Wow, I feel for you; now that I am an asian parent that grew up in an asian/tiger household; you have to show them that the US standard is about a “holistic” student that has attributes in academics but also in extracurricular activities.<br>
It sounds like you are that GOOD…HANG IN THERE…Old Age has a way to soften these asian tiger parents…my asian parents would not have me discipline their perfect male grandchild! Their parent style for their grandkids have changed…so Hang In There.
You also want a sounding board…a mentor or friend to speak to.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>(Just using your post as a jumping off point) It amazes me that people don’t seem to figure out that every town in the US has hospitals and doctors, and the vast majority of them didn’t just emerge from the 20 or so very best schools in the land. Of course the vast majority of doctors went to state / public schools. Why people think they must all have come from “top undergrads” is just ludicrous.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>in India …</p>

<p><a href=“Just%20using%20your%20post%20as%20a%20jumping%20off%20point”>quote=PizzaGirl</a> It amazes me that people don’t seem to figure out that every town in the US has hospitals and doctors, and the vast majority of them didn’t just emerge from the 20 or so very best schools in the land. Of course the vast majority of doctors went to state / public schools. Why people think they must all have come from “top undergrads” is just ludicrous.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Every group which perceives itself as an outside group(i.e. immigrants, some minorities, etc) has some members who feel they/their kids need to demonstrate outstanding academic abilities/pedigree just to get their foot in the very same door an average/below average native born person could get. It has been one of the common themes in history…especially US History in areas such as immigration.</p>

<p>Isn’t that part of why they move here, though? That anyone can achieve a decent level of success if they are willing to work hard, and it’s not predicated on a) being descended from a certain family and / or b) only attending one of a handful of colleges and / or c) choosing only a few select “winning” professions?</p>

<p>It would be fascinating to do a study sometime on the diffusion of information about America to immigrants - what are their info sources, and to what extent are they willing to suspend disbelief to see what’s really here. (Because no one who spends appreciable time in the US can say with a straight face, “Gosh, you’ve got to go to an Ivy League school, otherwise you’re waiting tables.”)</p>

<p>The two pieces of feedback that strike me as I read the comments are:</p>

<p>1) “the key is not to let other people convince you of your worth.” (Hunt) It’s unfortunate to have to learn that lesson from your parents, since the world will give you plenty of other opportunities to have people tear you down.
and</p>

<p>2) "take it with a grain of salt, it’s just their way of motivating you, it doesn’t mean they really mean it. " (starbright) Yup, different cultures speak differently, show their love differently. Our culture has a strong streak of superstition through it that fears the wrath of the gods if one praises too much, that the much beloved child will be damaged by the praise. Most parents love their children to the heavens. Odds are your parents do, too. Working on that assumption, even when they use the wrong or even ugly words to express it will make your life more bareable right now.</p>