<p>"Mer, it's not a matter of your mom approaching her husband about money, at least not now. It's about filing the paperwork showing income & assets so that FinAid can decide how much they aid they're willing to give you. No paperwork, no aid. It's that simple."</p>
<p>No they have already received everything, and have already offered me an award package, but the "award" doesn't even cover housing.</p>
<p>I stated as much about my award from Smith several posts ago in this thread. There has got to be a better solution or advice other than "you're screwed". This is my future we are discussing here and I was hoping maybe others had been in the same situation.</p>
<p>I'm sort of in the same situation. We have, according to Smith, a large sum of assets and as such, we didn't get that great of a FA package. We can do it, but with what I'll owe after college, I pretty much have to be an engineer (which is okay because I'm set on being one) and we'll be scrimping and saving like heck. I almost choked on my coffee when the person I was on the phone with said "We know that not all of it might be liquid..." No, really? We can't just sell a door to buy a textbook? What a revelation! You mentioned that you're a transfer...are you going to be a sophomore or junior this fall?</p>
<p>Exactly, sure if my step father was suddenly my parental figure and sold his house than yeah, Smith would be covered no problem, but since that isn't going to happen, and since I'm still 35 grand a year short...</p>
<p>Mer, the problem is that you want different rules to apply to you than apply to everybody else. No, you can't sell a door, but if you can get a home equity line of credit and draw against it for part of the payments. A parent can take a PLUS loan--hey, you either save the money up front or you take a loan out and pay the money after the fact (as a parent). </p>
<p>It's not uncommon that college is paid for with grant/scholarship + work study + student loan + payment out of parental income + parent loan. Certainly that's our profile. And we didn't do a particularly good job at saving in advance. Which means our choice was simple: take some parent PLUS loans or tell D she had to go to another college. The choices in your family are no different. It seems as if you want the rules to be different for you just because Smith is your dream school or because you and your stepfather aren't close. The response to both of those, from a Financial Aid point of view, is So What? Why Should We Give You Something We Don't Give Other Students?</p>
<p>Btw, if your parents do decide to do PLUS loans, I recommend the package through MEFA, the Massachusetts Educational Foundation or whatever...they offer loans at a fixed rate that's currently around 6.2 percent.</p>
<p>I am sorry to hear that your mom and stepdad were not willing to step up to help. Does FA deal with parents directly at Smith, or do you have to talk to them? It would be nice if your mom and stepdad could talk to them directly, so they could get a reality check. My D was accepted at Smith, but I think they sent the aid-related letter to D, as did most schools. I handled the $$ issues myself and just asked D to help with organizational tasks. This is first because I viewed paying for college as mostly my responsibility, secondly because I organize the money and D does not know details, but lastly because my H and I have some unique challenges with irresponsible, personally "challenged" exes, issues that are not appropriate to discuss on a public forum. As a result, H and I are the responsible ones in EVERY respect: parenting, money, etc. This is tough on kids, and my D has endured unique traumas (again, not OK to discuss in this setting). She has worked her posterior off in HS and got into a bunch of great schools, so I am ponying up. BTDT, when it comes to the FA office seeing "available" assets that are not really "available" (her dad/my ex). Yes, investment assets are counted, for sure; thus, my solution is to spend investment money. My actual salary is not high. I sincerely hope you can get somewhere by speaking with Smith FA directly. If not, it seems you have the drive and initiative to do well in life, no matter what. You could finish up where you are, then look for graduate work in a place that better fits your dreams, where they pay you, rather than you paying them.</p>
<p>The reason that FA considers stepparent assets has little to do with any relationship or non-relationship with the student. It has to do with the fact that the biological parent has additional assets available to her for her own living expenses; therefore, there is additional money available for college both from the biological parent and from the stepparent. A single parent making $50,000 is in a very different position than a parent making $50,000 married to someone who also makes $50,000.</p>
<p>When your stepfather married your mother, it was a package deal - you were included, whether you two get along or not. And whether he wants to pay or not. Otherwise, how easy would it be for every parent or stepparent to say, "Nope, we don't want to pay. OK, FA, step up and make it affordable for our kid to go to your college without us." Those are the rules, and yes, you may be screwed. But they won't change the rules for you just because of a recalcitrant stepparent or a mother who doesn't want to "owe" him. It's their responsibility to fund your education, not Smith's. If they shirk that responsibility, it's still not Smith's.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but you may not be able to work it out, especially not to the tune of $35,000 per year.</p>
<p>Merdavis, I know you aren't hearing what you want to hear. Unfortunately, colleges concentrate on what the family <em>can</em> pay, not what it <em>wants</em> to pay. These forums are full of kids getting accepted into dream schools but having to go to a state school because their parents refuse to pay more than state tuition. In these cases, there is nothing the student can do since, as TD says, the same rules apply to everyone.</p>
<p>Most of us on this forum are making great financial sacrifices for our daughters to attend Smith. While a few may have daughters being offered full- or nearly full-rides to Smith, those are exceptional cases, usually because of severe financial need or incredible academic potential or a combination. Most of us are taking out loans, delving deep into savings, and changing our lifestyles to accommodate the expense. For every one of us, however, there may be four like your mother and stepfather, parents who decide based on what they're willing (or not willing) to pay that their daughters cannot attend Smith. And so their daughters go elsewhere.</p>
<p>Unless you have some new information not included in your FA application, I doubt that Smith will change the package. The sooner you realize that a miracle is not going to happen, the better equipped you will be to continue your education elsewhere. Dream school or not, Smith isn't the only place to get an excellent education. As long as you make the effort to get, and to be, the best, you will go far.</p>
<p>ParentalUnit, you are right. At this stage, it should be the parents handling FA matters since they have the assets.</p>
<p>MWFN, you're right. Besides I have so many other things happening right now that I can't reallly worry about Smith. I will talk to them on Wednesday, and whatever happens, happens. Thanks everyone for the reality check.</p>
<p>MWFN, just the way you put it made me think of "Smith...a life-changing experience" in a new light. Yep, paying for it affects both our debt level and our life-style, LOL. Hey, the first of our annual PLUS loans has only 13 years left on it.</p>
<p>LOL! Yes, this has certainly become a "life changing" year, with three left to go.</p>
<p>I know that everyone on here has counseled you to let your mom talk to your step dad about the money issue, and I'm not a parent so I don't know if this is an entirely stupid idea, but what about you appealing to your step-dad directly? </p>
<p>I mean, you got into Smith because you were qualified but more importantly because they recognized your goals and your passion. Maybe if you were to express your passion, your hopes for your future, and your needs to your step dad directly, you could presuade him how important it was and what a good thing it would be for him to help you. </p>
<p>Speak from the heart, convince him that this means more to you than just a B.A. and that it can do more for you than a degree from Joe Schmoe University. Have your mom their for support if you want, but ultimately the money is for you, so address him directly, adult to adult. Who knows, it might help.</p>
<p>Smith an financial aid, ahh what an issue. I just completed my first year there and it was a unique experience, not sure if its for me, so i applied to transfer to Macalester. Last year Smith was BY FAR the best fin. aid package (granted compared to NYU!) but Macalester had a rep. for no aid and ended up giving me the same as Smith last year. Just something to keep in mind, quite a few of the girls I met this year mentioned that fin. aid. packages are subject to change- essentially without reason. It is very possible that even if you get a good package your first year, it may be significantly reduced the next years. It is supposed to only be if circumstances change during the year- but I've heard stories of some pretty arbitrary removal of aid.</p>
<p>Smith uses exactly the same formulaic approach to financial aid as the other 30 schools in the Consortium on Financing of Higher Education (COFHE). Each school decides on its own how to shape the packages (grants/loans/workstudy), with most schools increasing the loan part of the package to conform to availability of Stafford loans. In our case, financial aid INCREASED every year, in keeping with changes in in our EFC. </p>
<p>Speaking personally, I have never seen a single case of arbitrary removal of aid (and not just at Smith, but at all the COFHE schools). There are always changes going on under the surface of the EFC and FASFA.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, in terms of grant aid per student attending, Smith is the most generous prestige school in the country, and that includes Harvard, Princeton, and the other so-called "no-loan" schools (where, because they accept significantly wealthier students, parents are taking out loans instead of the students.) I have posted the actual data elsewhere on this site.</p>
<p>"they accept significantly wealthier students, parents are taking out loans instead of the students"</p>
<p>I wouldn’t read too much into parent debt. High income/net worth individuals are usually savvy enough to weight the opportunity costs of their investments. It doesn’t make sense to give a college ~190k you’re earning 15+%, when you can borrow funds at a ~ 1/3 the cost. Or forgo investing pre-tax dollars in retirement vehicles in lieu of acquiring inexpensive debt.</p>
<p>“For what it's worth, in terms of grant aid per student attending, Smith is the most generous prestige school in the country,”</p>
<p>Mini, am I interpreting your statement incorrectly? It appears you’re using grant aid per <em>attending</em> student (i.e. entire student population) instead of grant aid per recipient in your analysis. The fact of the matter is, students' receiving aid at your aforementioned colleges graduate with a substantially lower personal debt burden than those at Smith.</p>
<p>They do, because the median student family at Princeton has a family income slightly more than twice as high as that at Smith. The student loan burden doesn't include the PARENTS' loan burden. Folks in the $120-$160k range are more likely to have parents taking out the loans, not the students. Student loan burden can represent the generosity of the school rather than paucity of same.</p>
<p>As previously posted:</p>
<p>As promised, selected data taken from some prestigious colleges/universities that guarantee to meet 100% of need. Usually, data is taken from the 2006-2007 CDS; in a few cases where that isn?t posted yet, the 2005-2006 CDS is used. It should be noted that there are schools that do not seem to post the CDS, among them Harvard, Tufts, Wellesley, Johns Hopkins, WUSTL, Columbia, Chicago, and Penn.</p>
<p>The first number is the amount given in institutional aid in the form of needs-based grants. When merit aid is used to meet need, the general rule is that it is counted as needs-based in all the data, except the total amount of needs-based aid. The second and third numbers are enrollment/number receiving needs-based grant aid; the fourth number is percentage receiving needs-based grant aid; the fifth number is average size of needs-based grant; the sixth number is average needs-based grant per student attending (i.e. the needs-based budget/enrollment).</p>
<p>Interpret as you like:</p>
<p>Amherst - $23,568,803, 1654/768, 46.4%, $31,393, $14,250
Barnard - $19,171,414, 2296/917, 39.9%, $24,611, $8,350
Bowdoin - $16, 285,150, 1660/734, 44.2%, $24,785, $9,810
Brown - $46,330,000, 5864/2337, 39.7%, $22,224, $7,901
Carleton - $21,435,032, 1959/1070, 54.6%, $23,279, $10,974
Claremont-McK - $11,693,280, 1151/524, 45.5%, $23,674, $10,159
Cornell - $102,833,211, 13462/5864. 43.2%, $21,184, $7,639
Dartmouth - $45,630,575, 3991/2000, 50.2%, $25,303, $11,433
Davidson - $9,981,805, 1683/540, 32.1%, $16,383, $5,931
Emory - $43,631,673, 6486/2414, 37.2%, $27,011, $6,727
Grinnell - $15,060,078, 1556/850, 54.6%, $19,317, $9,679
Hamilton - $19,618,055, 1799/881, 49.0%, $22,565, $10,905
Haverford - $10,501,626, 1168/479, 41.0%, $24,073, $8,991
Middlebury - $25,888,000, 2365/1011, 42.7%, $24,468, $10,946
Mt. Holyoke - $28,032,732, 2252/1273, 56.5%, $23,948, $12,448
Northwestern - $59,303,584, 7826/3268, 41.8%, $21,489, $7,578
Pomona - $18,237,526, 1532/808, 52.7% $25,484, $11,904
Princeton - $53,597,900, 4678/2340, 50.0%, $25,303, $11,457
Reed - $15,781,454, 1365/625, 45.8%, $27,018, $11,562
Scripps - $7,776,366, 857/351, 41.0%, $25,057, $9,074
Smith - $39,500,462, 2717/1609, 59.2%, $26,372, $14,538
Swarthmore - $17,451,430, 1472/719, 48.8%, $26,411, $11,855
Wash/Lee - $7,854,734, 1754/426, 24.3%, $18,370, $4,478
Williams - $22,978,912, 1965/842, 42.8%, $29,713, $11,694
Yale - $55,900,852, 5340/2232, 41.8%, $27,932, $10,468</p>
<p>A cursory look at the data compared with similar runs I did two years ago does not indicate significant changes, with the exceptions of Amherst and Princeton (as new, more generous policies now cover students in all four years), and to a lesser extent, Williams (where the size of grants has risen, though not the percentage of students receiving them). On the whole, given COA increases in the past two years, I think the schools are slightly less generous (or students are wealthier) than they were then, but I?m not sure about the statistical significance.</p>
<p>"They do, because the median student family at Princeton has a family income slightly more than twice as high as that at Smith"</p>
<p>Mini. I’m tying to understand this. I’m not sure how it’s possible to derive what the median income is of Smith parents. You can only ascertain the incomes of parents applying for aid. I know a substantial number of those answering the COFHE survey—and not receiving aid—didn’t answer the income question. Other than the COFHE questionnaire, by what other means would Smith be able to acquire parent income figures? </p>
<p>There can also be a vast difference between income and net worth.
There are many individuals with low incomes but with an extremely high net worth, or visa versa, that incur college debt for reasons I stated earlier. Using parent debt re; college generosity can be very muddy proposition. So, again, I wouldn’t allocate too much weight to income figures.</p>
<p>I believe the amount a student is in debt at graduation is a more appropriate indication of generosity. And Parent debt doesn’t count. ;)</p>
<p>Actually, it is pretty easy to derive "a surrogate" of median income (actually, income/assets), for 568 (100% of need) schools, for "average" sistuations. We know what income levels are necessary to be able to afford the full-freight, we know what percentages of students pay the full-freight, we know the general income spread of the population, and, for the most part, we know what percentage of students receive Pell Grants (and hence their maximum income.) The rest is simply logarhithmic regressions. It ain't perfect, but it can give you a pretty good idea. (There is also a website, that I've lost, that provides the income spread by school of those who receive any form of federal aid, grants or loans.)</p>
<p>"I believe the amount a student is in debt at graduation is a more appropriate indication of generosity. And Parent debt doesn’t count."</p>
<p>Actually, I believe just the opposite, for reasons stated. But in any case, you'll quickly see by examining the chart above, that there are exactly four schools that offer more need "grant-in-aid" than Smith, and since the rest is made up in loans and work-study, you can draw your own conclusions.</p>