Dealing With Those Who Are Close-Minded About Alabama

Colleges & Universities A-Z University of Alabama
1

<p>I started to get into this topic in the Clemson vs UA vs USC thread, but didn’t want to hijack it anymore than I already have.</p>

<p>All of us CCers clearly know that Alabama is a great school whose academics and reputation are improving constantly. So how do y’all (had to do it) deal with those who aren’t familiar with the school and think of Alabama as a state full of hicks and the school as, well, less than prestigious?</p>

<p>My father is the main issue for me. He wasn’t impressed with Bama when we visited; he sees it as a jock school, doesn’t like how spread out the campus is, etc. He wants me to choose a more prestigious school and has the close-minded “Why would you want to go to Alabama?” viewpoint. He is pressuring me to choose a school such as Clemson or Texas, which would cost an extra $120,000. (At least it’s an improvement from when he tried to talk me into a private school that would be $200,000+). While I’m grateful that he is willing to pay so much money to give me what he believes to be a better college experience, I have to choose the school that makes sense to me, both personally and financially.</p>

<p>My classmates are probably even worse. I go to a boarding school where everyone dreams of going to Ivys – most of my classmates who are aiming for top private schools cannot, for the life of them, understand why I, who they know has higher SAT scores than them, would want to go to University of Alabama or a similar school. All of my friends ask why I’m aiming so low. I know the best bet is just to ignore them because they’re simply being ignorant, but sometimes it becomes extremely frusturating.</p>

<p>Has anyone else had similar experiences? How do you deal with people who haven’t been enlightened to the wonderful-ness that is UA?</p>

2

<p>tell them that the money you save by getting a scholarship at UA will go towards grad school, law school , med school. My d is now a freshman at UA and she is planning to go to law school. Going to UA because of their free tuition scholarship is one of the main reasons why she chose UA (not to mention that she is a “bigger fish” in a smaller pond). . . and my daughter had her choice of UNC Chapel Hill, UCLA, Clemson, Michigan, etc.</p>

3

<p>Just ignore the classmates. I have to admit to jealousy as I see my son’s classmates now attending such dream schools as USC (Cali, my dream school when I was young), Hopkins, and Notre Dame. But I know my son, even if we could have afforded them, would not be comfortable there, so we didn’t spend the money even for the application fees. I know a lot of them are attending simply for the prestige, but who cares? Why go into such crushing debt just because you care what people think? Of course, many of them are from wealthy families, so I guess they can afford it, and prestige is important to them. It’s possible your dad’s pride is what’s preventing him from being open minded about Bama.</p>

<p>For your dad, just be patient. If he’s willing to pay the hefty application fees for the prestigious schools, and you’re willing to fill out the applications and write the essays, go for it. I would also advise you to apply for the University Fellows and Computer Based Honors Program at Bama. If you are lucky enough for an invite, have your dad attend the weekend with you, where he’ll see other high achievers like yourself who are academically minded, not just there for the football. Go to any receptions in your area, and have him accompany you, like the ones mentioned in other threads. </p>

<p>In the end, you can only pick one school. As you approach the May deadline, with the financial offers and honors programs acceptances from the various schools, together, take an objective look at all of them, weighing the pros and cons of each, and make a decision together. True, it is your decision, you will be living on this campus for your next four years, but if your parents are indeed footing the bill, they will have some say so in the matter and you have to allow them some input into the decision.</p>

<p>We’ll be keeping you in our thoughts as you go through this trying year. Good luck to you!</p>

4

<p>This is just one of many things a person faces in life. People are never going to agree with all/most of your choices.</p>

<p>Right now it’s your choice of school, next it may be your future spouse, then it might be your choice of home or career, later it will be when you have kids, how many you have, and how you discipline them. It never ends. LOL Everyone has an opinion! </p>

<p>You’re never going to be able to please or impress everyone. </p>

<p>Frankly, when speaking to a lot of these people, you don’t have to let on how you’re leaning. Tell them that you’re keeping an open mind. You don’t need to tell them anything right now. </p>

<p>Did your dad go on a campus tour? If not, have him go with you on a campus tour and a meeting with the honors college. </p>

<p>Bama seems spread out because it’s on a decent size piece of land, but it’s very logically laid out which lessens cris-crossing across campus. Science buildings are in one general area, humanities are in another, and so forth. Residence halls and various support buildings are on the periphery.</p>

5

<p>Have your dad talk to people in the honors college. That should change his mind pretty quickly.</p>

<p>And as for friends/family? Just ignore them. People thought I was INSANE when I chose Bama over UCLA. I was top 1 or 2% of my high school, had the highest SAT scores of anyone I know of from my school, heavily involved, and more. However, I don’t regret my decision at all. I love UCLA (I’ve visited MANY times to see my sister, a third year), but Alabama just makes more sense for me, and I love it here.</p>

6

<p>My DS got a REALLY hard time about not taking UVA’s offer. Now his friends that are there are telling him about their classes of many hundreds of students. My DS told them of his honors class of 12 and his freshman seminar class of 3 and they could not believe it! Sometimes what goes around comes around…</p>

7

<p>Have any of them tried talking to you in a fake southern accent? </p>

<p>I find it interesting that your dad thinks that UA is full of jocks, but is willing to pay for you to attend Clemson or UT-Austin because they are higher-ranked. </p>

<p>IIRC, you visited UA during the summer. Summer, school break, weekend, and sometimes Friday visits don’t give you an accurate picture of the what the campus looks like when everyone is around during a school day. If you visited on a school day, you got a better picture of campus, but even then distances will seem long and the campus layout will seem confusing since you are not used to the campus. I actually consider UA to have quite the compact campus for a school of its size. </p>

<p>While you should consider your dad’s views since he is paying for your college education, he needs to remember that you are the one attending college, not him. It is evident that you have a different list of things you want in a college than your parents or your friends do for you and all involved should respect that. I know for a fact that apart form a few that wanted me to attend Stanford, my family and friends never pictured me attending college outside of WA/OR and the fact that I was interested in and ended up attending UA was quite a shock, but they began to realize that UA is a great school for me and that I wanted to attend UA more than any other school.</p>

<p>I’ll readily admit that UA and the State of Alabama aren’t perfect, but neither is any other college/state. You learn quickly that you can’t please everyone and that you should choose the college which makes you happy. This could be UA, it could be Clemson, or it could be another school. You are a bright, innovate, and unique individual who should use the opportunity you have to choose a school that is right for you. Your father and friends are well-intentioned, but they may also be mistaken on what is best for you. You dad hasn’t said no to you attending UA; he just encouraging you towards what he thinks is best for you. Once this is all said and done, I am confident that he will respect your choice and will be happy for you.</p>

<p>As for a rebuttal to people saying ignorant and/or hurtful things about UA and Alabama, remember the classic Lynyrd Skynyrd song “Sweet Home Alabama,” particularly the “Roll Tide Roll” version. I highly encourage you to attend UA if you decide that it is the school for you, succeed beyond your wildest dreams, and laugh all the way to the bank.</p>

<p>Best of luck and ROLL TIDE!</p>

8

<p>Questions I’m fond of asking in situations involving academic snobbery and ignorance. It goes something like this. “Dear Mr./Ms. Snob. Please help me out:”</p>

<ol>
<li><p>For the life of me, I can’t understand how someone who graduated from Oregon State won two Nobel Prizes. How a graduate of Muskingum College became a U.S. Senator. How a graduate of Oklahoma State founded an energy empire. How college dropouts (take your pick): won a Pulitzer Prize, won an Oscar for best director, founded a company worth billions. Can you please tell me how they did that if attending a “prestigious university” is a requirement for one to be successful?</p></li>
<li><p>So, being the highly educated person you are, when you researched the actual curriculum, discourse, and academic rigor going on in the honors classes at Alabama, what precisely did you find lacking?</p></li>
<li><p>Ten years after graduation, what is the average return on investment of an Ivy League graduate who paid over $200,000 for an undergraduate education vs. an Alabama grad who matriculated tuition-free?</p></li>
<li><p>What is the average size of an honors class at Alabama vs class sizes at “prestigious” universities?</p></li>
<li><p>How does the quality of life in the super-suite honors dorms at UA compare with dorm life at “prestigious” universities?</p></li>
<li><p>In discussing not only why they chose Alabama, but how they’ve found it to actually be, what did the 400 or so National Merit Scholars in attendance there tell you? What, you never spoke with them, or did you just assume that they were slow-talking, low-aiming, backwoods, backwards, jock-oriented non-achievers with nothing better to do than waste four years of their lives at a loser school just because it honored them with great scholarships?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I attended a prestigious university and I couldn’t be more pleased with the education my son is getting at UA. He’s a NMF and darned if he isn’t also having a lot of fun to go along with all that academic rigor. Snobbery and pseudo-intellectualism are the hallmarks of those too lazy to get the facts. Hope I haven’t been too vague or indirect here. :)</p>

<p>Roll Tide, baby!</p>

9

<p>It’s a waste of energy trying to control what your friends think about your college. It’s impossible and if they really love you, or even like you a little bit they’d still respect you even if they don’t understand your decision. I wouldn’t stress out about trying to prove to them how great this school is. </p>

<p>Your dad’s a different story, since his support is more important emotionally and financially. To that end, I would concur with the advice given above. If he doesn’t really know about the school academically, he might prosper from finding out. At worst, if he can just see that you know what you’re doing he might be willing to just trust that it’ll work out fine and back you up even if he’s secretly wistful about the Ivy that might have been.</p>

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<p>Just don’t be close-minded in reverse. Clemson, UT-Austin are higher ranked than Alabama for a reason.</p>

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<p>Thank you all so much for the input and advice – I can’t even explain how much I appreciate it.</p>

<p>

This is definitely true…I want to go to business school or law school, so I really want to save every dollar I can.</p>

<p>

That’s exactly how I feel. I grew up dreaming of attending Boston College from the time I knew what college was, and it’s hard to let go of that dream, but I know that even disregarding the ridiculous amount of money, that’s not the type of place I want to be.</p>

<p>

We did go on a campus tour, but since it was mainly on the bus, we didn’t have a chance to see any classrooms, which I think is part of why he has an issue with Bama. We should have done a meeting with the honors college; we missed out there.</p>

<p>

LOL this is awesome. The honors college is a huge part of the draw for me – coming from a boarding school with classes of ten people, I love the idea of being able to have small classes and close relationships with professors while still attending a large university. My best friend is at Penn State and talks about how her math class is so easy, but she’s always lost because she can’t see the board since the room is so huge.</p>

<p>

Haha, I cannot say I’ve experienced that yet. I agree – all of the schools I’m considering are sports-obsessed (part of why I like them). In his words, “It sounds better if you say you went to Florida than Alabama.” <em>eyeroll</em> Like I’m really going to choose my college around what sounds better.</p>

<p>

You’re right (good memory!) - I would love to see it at a time when people are around, although I’m not sure whether that will be possible. I got the same feeling about distances; I made sure to ask about that at every school, because I don’t want to be required to take a bus a few times a day. My dad keeps mentioning how far the gym was, and I’m tempted to remind him that I’m lazy and probably won’t work out anyway, haha.</p>

<p>

Amen!!</p>

<p>Malanai - LOL!! That is all I can say! I am totally saving that post and referring to it very often.</p>

<p>Thank you all again. I’m kind of half hoping I don’t get into any other schools so that I don’t have to make a decision, haha, that would solve everything. You guys are the best and roll tide!</p>

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<p>Long message ahead. “I come not to bury your Dad, but to explain him”</p>

<p>It’s going to hard to convince Dad of UA and the State. You may slowly recruit him over time, but it’s not going to be easy under any circumstances. Have him read about the Honors College, better yet have him talk to administration and students from the Honors college, even just read the Wiki about the number of National Merit students they have recruited and the accomplishments and strides they have made over the last 6-7 years. I agree a visit while school is in session may be a good idea.</p>

<p>While you may push him to accepting that the University might be good enough for you educationally, I’m afraid socially it’s going to far more difficult to change his opinion of the South in general and Alabama in particular. Stereotypes are hard enough overcome even when they weren’t earned.</p>

<p>I’m sure I’m roughly the same age as your Dad and believe me Alabama’s reputation(stain) we/they earned is very deserved and is going to take a very long time and a lot of good people to undo. I sometimes feel like I’m trying to convince WWII veterans that Japan and Germany (and their inhabitants) are now good places with good people – some things are too hard to forget. I grew up in Birmingham in the middle of the Civil Rights era watching the church bombings on TV, the bloody Freedom Riders, the firehoses and dogs let loose on those 'troublemakers," watching people die just trying to earn some basic dignity, watching the KKK being cheered when they walked down the street and up the aisles of a church no less. Worse than that was listening to my family and friends (kids and adults) parroting the party line and basically defending those atrocities that even as a kid I just knew was wrong. I am a child of the JFK/Bobby/MLK/George Wallace era. This was now 40+ years ago and lots of changes in many areas of the country have occurred since then – Alabama had a lot longer way to go than most, but the stereotypes still define the state. </p>

<p>There were some good people then and there are a whole lot more good people there now, but nobody of my generation can unremember what Alabama stood for when we were growing up. All you can do is try to prove it - over and over again. I certainly paid for it every time I interviewed for school and jobs outside of the South, I felt it when I went to visit relatives in the North and West. I still hear the comments though it’s less now, but still so many times I feel as people are trying to figure out if I’m one of “Them.” </p>

<p>I joke about Football at UA being the end all-be all and attended UA when it was a PARTY heaven, but some of us even then studied hard and went about the business of improving the image by our actions. Hopefully in another 10-15 years a different reputation can be attached to the UA/State name and the people that are graduating now can be the builders of that reputation, but that is going to take time. The groundwork obviously has been set and some very astute people are now in charge that are very serious about establishing something that is ultimately far more important for all of us than who wins on Saturday (though damn if that’s not fun too). I can point to Huntsville and the connections with NASA and the incredible number of High Tech companies based there. I can point to UA Law School and UA Med School being among the best Public Professional schools. I can point to UA Hospitals in Birmingham being recognized as some of the best in the world in Cardiac Surgery, Diabetes research, and Spinal Cord rehab. </p>

<p>Good Luck on your journey.</p>

13

<p>S also had more “prestigious” options and many people were surprised, but after having spoken to the Deans on a few occasions (at reception, visit & phone) he felt it was his best opportunity to be an individual student, not one of the crowd. </p>

<p>I think the best comment made to him was by Dean Karr: “Based on your track record and what we will provide you with --What do You plan to make of the opportunity?” No other dean, administrator put the challenge back to him. They were more interested in “their” status. </p>

<p>By the way, it also will allow for open options come grad school, no big $$$$ worries. </p>

<p>You have time - get back for a visit, this time arrange for meetings, UA has always shown itself to want to take time to answer questions. </p>

<p>So remember, college is what YOU make it (and remind Dad that’s why he’s proud of you). Therefore, the decision has to be right for you, whether that’s Alabama or another school.</p>

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<p>Malanai…great post!! actually everyone made great posts!</p>

<p>It is quite obvious that Bama is an up and coming school. When I was growing up, USC was not the highly ranked school it is today. If you could write the check, you got in.</p>

<p>Trojan football successes and the money it brought in from various sources (TV, alumni, licensed wear, etc) helped it do what it needed to do to gain prestige. </p>

<p>Bama is no more a football school than USC, Notre Dame, Penn St or any school that loves its football team. For some reason, higher ranked schools get a pass for making a big deal out of their teams, but lower ranked schools get derisively labeled. </p>

<p>Tell your dad that President Witt is from the UTexas system. He spent 35 years as a prof and administrator in Texas, including 9 years as dean of UTexas’ business school. He’s implementing what works in Texas at Bama.</p>

<p>From wikipedia…</p>

<p>Witt joined the business school faculty at the University of Texas at Austin in 1968, and rose through the ranks as chair and associate dean. He was named the Zale Corporation Centennial Professor in Business in 1983. Two years later he was named to the Mortimer Centennial Professorship in Business and that year became acting dean of business. In 1985, he was named dean, a position he would hold for nine years.</p>

<p>In 1995, Witt went to University of Texas at Arlington as interim president. He was named permanent president in 1996. His accomplishments at UT-Arlington included:</p>

<pre><code>* Turning around an enrollment decline

  • Partnering with the Chamber of Commerce to establish the Arlington Technology Incubator
  • Creating a nanotechnology research and teaching facility
  • Establishing the University’s first alliance of African-American ministers and community leaders to assure the needs of minority students are addressed.
    </code></pre>

<p>At the University of Alabama, Witt has pursued the following goals, among others:</p>

<pre><code>* Increasing enrollment by approximately 40 percent to 28,000 by the year 2013[1]

  • Raising faculty and staff salaries[2]
  • Increasing financial aid to students[2]
  • Upgrading and expanding facilities[2]
    </code></pre>
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<p>I am seeing that some who are closed minded about Alabama are from Alabama or nearby. Visited the UA v AU post on the Auburn thread(thought it would be informative and interesting- not so much) and am currently discussing how AU can be so much better than 'bama with an 80% admission rate. And how “'bama accepts anyone with a pulse” if they are rejecting almost 50% of applicants.
The opinion is that AU students self-select, so that explains the 80% admission rate. Come on?</p>

16

<p>Auburn has long enjoyed the status of being “the” engineering school in the state, which to them implies that the entire school is better, better, better…(even though it lacked in other subject areas). </p>

<p>Bama had the rep of being the better school for liberal arts & sciences, business, and fine arts…which was great for the pre-health majors, pre-law majors, artistic types, etc. </p>

<p>However, it’s obvious that Bama alumni Sen. Shelby and others recognized Bama’s need to beef up its Engineering and all sciences, hence Shelby Bldg and the Science and Engineering Complex - which is amazing. It’s a lot easier to attract the best profs and best students when they can see that they will be working with state of the art equipment and buildings. </p>

<p>Many of the Auburn grads will stubbornly cling to their belief that their alma mater is better no matter what Bama does to improve.</p>

<p>And, now, Auburn is now flipping out that Bama and UAH are making headway into their engineering domain with improved facilities, new profs, new programs, more scholarships, etc. </p>

<p>I’m sure Auburn had major heart palpitations when the USNews rankings came out and Bama had jumped 17 spots. (I giggle at those who few who last year chose Auburn over Bama simply because Auburn was ranked higher. Look who’s now at the lower ranked school.)</p>

<p>Auburn isn’t going to admit equality (or hopefully defeat!) in the engineering realm for a long time. </p>

<p>Oh well…competition is always good…it inspires all to improve. </p>

<p>*The opinion is that AU students self-select, so that explains the 80% admission rate. Come on? *</p>

<p>Yes, Auburn fans can keep telling themselves that. “Self-select”??? The ivies and elites have self-selection and the have the lowest admit rates around! Auburn is drinking the adulterated Kool-Aid again.</p>

17

<p>“Auburn is drinking the adulterated Kool-Aid again.”
LOL!!</p>

<p>I actually thought a while back that my decision might come down to Alabama and Auburn, but I don’t think I’m even going to apply to Auburn at this point. Alabama is the obvious choice. :wink: And to give him some credit, my dad says that if he had to choose between the two, he likes Alabama better.</p>

18

<p>I have a D who has applied to both UA & AU. I have looked at the common data set for both schools and I would agree with the folks on the AU board that there is some self selection in those who apply to AU compared to UA. From the most recent common data set:</p>

<p>The middle 50% ACT for AU is 23 - 29. The middle 50% for UA is 21 - 28.</p>

<p>At AU for 2009; 22.90% of freshmen had ACT score between 30 - 36, 51.20% had score between 24 - 29 and 25.60% between 18 - 23.
At UA for 2009; 18% of freshmen had Act score between 30 - 36, 36% had a score between 24 - 29 and 45% between 18 - 23.</p>

<p>If there is not some self selection by those who apply to AU compared to UA, then why is UA more selective but AU average ACT score is higher?</p>

19

<p>Bama is a larger school. The larger the school the lower the mid 50 range typically is.</p>

<p>Bama is also determined not to exclude minorities and others who may not have had the best education and/or don’t have the best scores. </p>

<p>African Americans in this country have an average ACT of 16. Bama has about 12% African American students, while Auburn only has only 7%. </p>

<p>By being more inclusive, Bama is willing to let its mid-range test scores take a hit. </p>

<p>Bama’s not stupid; it knows that if it reduced its number of low-scoring kids its mid-50 range would rise, but it would take a huge hit politically as being a southern school who is closing its doors to URMs. </p>

<p>Obviously, letting the mid-50 range be lower than Auburn’s hasn’t hurt Bama a bit in the rankings. :)</p>

<p>Self-selection does not explain this huge disparity in acceptance rate. Auburn is a rolling admissions school that clearly tells campus visitors that if their scores are low to apply early because Auburn will accept low scores early in the admit season. Bama also accepts lower stats kids early in the app season.</p>

20

<p>Also, what about all the oos nmfs & honors college students that take the SAT instead of the ACT? Do they convert those numbers for the common data set?</p>