<p>paperplane…I think your summary is quite true. But people who think that first generation professionals, who do too well for need based aid at the tier 1 schools are people who have homes in Tuscany. ROFL!!! We didn’t even drive to South Carolina this year!</p>
<p>paperplane, I love your attitude and your D’s. I think need-blind admissions are lauderable. Institutions will be stronger as a result. I would much prefer my D compete against a large pool that includes families who couldn’t afford it otherwise.</p>
<p>I think it also helps the state schools to have a pool of the really top students…everybody wins.</p>
<p>" will tell that to all the upper class in my community (one the wealthiest communities in NJ) who during breaks are traveling to their homes in Tuscany, Hawaii and Paris…just to name a few. "</p>
<p>People who make 120 k (quoted before) typically do not have homes in these locations.</p>
<p>“I will tell that to all the upper class in my community (one the wealthiest communities in NJ) who during breaks are traveling to their homes in Tuscany, Hawaii and Paris…just to name a few. They cry about the unfairness of financial aid and that the URM’s and poor kids have it made.”</p>
<p>This helps me understand your point of view. The cases you cite are extreme. Spending maybe 10% of a family’s salary on college (per year) shouldn’t be a hardship. But there are a lot of families where the 100% EFC is more like 50% of salary.</p>
<p>"People who make 120 k (quoted before) typically do not have homes in these locations. "</p>
<p>120k is not zero need, in most cases.</p>
<p>“The degree should be worth the cost or else there is no value.”</p>
<p>If the financial aid system were indeed devaluing Ivy League degrees, then rational actors who can afford to pay would walk away. But they don’t. They’re lining up to pay MORE than the sticker price – they’ll pay counselors like me to help their kids get in, they’ll make donations to the school. It’s conclusive evidence that the degree is not devalued.</p>
<p>Means-testing, i.e. charging different customers different prices, is extremely common in not-for-profit and government businesses. Therapists do it; doctors do it (when they agree to accept Medicaid reimbursements that are lower than what private insurers pay); professional associations do it (they charge lower dues to members who are students or work in the public interest). The universities haven’t come up with anything new here.</p>
<p>"Spending maybe 10% of a family’s salary on college (per year) shouldn’t be a hardship. But there are a lot of families where the 100% EFC is more like 50% of salary. "</p>
<p>That would be families with lots of kids in college at once, IIUC. Is it really easier for families of that size with lower incomes? (I honestly don’t know, we have one kid only, I don’t know exactly how they adjust for number of kids).</p>
<p>Brooklyn…well, it ain’t easy. I’ll tell you that much. We had to sell our villa in Tuscany!</p>
<p>LOL</p>
<p>I did not say it was easy. I am discussing how it is relative to the same situation at a lower income level.</p>
<p>If a high-achieving student comes from a low/middle income family, odds are that student WILL receive generous aid from some school. It may not be Harvard. But that student WILL have a shot at a good college education. </p>
<p>I guess I don’t understand the mentality that everyone qualified should be entitled to enter HYP or whatever school. </p>
<p>I believe everyone qualified should be entitled to an education: and they are. At publicly funded in-state schools, which don’t cost $50K/year</p>
<p>“I guess I don’t understand the mentality that everyone qualified should be entitled to enter HYP or whatever school”</p>
<p>many qualified people at all income levels are denied admission at HYP. </p>
<p>The question is, should people be excluded from HYP simply because their income levels are too low? Given that the people who RUN HYP, who DONATE to HYP, etc do not feel that they should, maybe we should consider that they have good reasons.</p>
<p>“If a high-achieving student comes from a low/middle income family, odds are that student WILL receive generous aid from some school. It may not be Harvard. But that student WILL have a shot at a good college education”</p>
<p>yes.</p>
<p>also : If a high-achieving student comes from a HIGH income family, odds are that student WILL receive generous aid from some school. It may not be Harvard. But that student WILL have a shot at a good college education</p>
<p>is also true. So whats the problem?</p>
<p>katlia…quite true. I’m pretty darn happy with my son’s available public choices…even if people with kids in more “elite” schools denigrate them. They are good choices. And we can afford them.</p>
<p>The FAFSA determines using an algebraic formula EFC which weighs heavily the family income from the preceding year. The FAFSA EFC purpose is to determine the student’s eligibility for a Pell grant, SEOG grants, federal work-study and subsidized student loans.</p>
<p>That’s it. The info is sent to the school’s and then the FA office at each institution uses that info to create individualized FA packages. Some institions utilize the info gathered from the College profile while others use their own individualized forms.</p>
<p>With the info gathered from either just the FAFSA or the Profile/own forms a specific EFC is formulated for each student from EACH school. The EFC is not necessarily same for your student from all schools, it can vary by as much as thousands. The EFC is for the whole family regardless of how many college students are all concurrently in school. </p>
<p>EFC= $30,000 1 child, same $30,000 for 2, 3 or 15… per year NOT $30K per child</p>
<p>so an EFC which is half of income must (based on mathematical formula) be asset heavy, really asset heavy since formula weisghs income so much</p>
<p>And just because an EFC is $5000 doesn’t mean there isn’t a gap of $15,000 or $10K or $3k since the majority of all schools gap.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>“Turning to the use of University resources, Gibson asked how much was spent on financial aid, so that undergraduates emerged without onerous loans. Sixty percent of entering freshmen receive grant aid, Faust said, with packages averaging $40,900. Is that sustainable? Gibson asked. It is, Faust said firmly, because the most important of Harvards commitments is to attract talented individuals regardless of their financial circumstances. The aid program had increased the proportion of the freshman class whose families earn less than $60,000 per year to 18 percent, she addeda significant change from mid decade.”</p>
<p>Some folks seem to think they know what is in Harvard’s interests better than the President of Harvard does.</p>
<p>Not to mention those kids made themselves competitive without the financial support their peers have. It would be regressive for institutions not to make it possible for them to attend.</p>
<p>
Why? The EFC is the same for 5 children as it is for 1 child. If the EFC is half the salary, the family probably has large assets (as does ours).</p>
<p>Iglooo, I believe that, but many of the Ivies don’t disclose the academic composition of their classes. I think that if a student from an underprivileged background comes in with an outstanding background, then they should be accepted. I just question why the schools don’t disclose everything so that there aren’t questions. If you go to a terrible high school and make good grades, but have weak test scores, I’m not sure that you are MORE qualified than a kid that goes to a tough high school and has great test scores and good grades. They may be accepting only super qualified kids, but there was an article in a recent college publication where they featured a student with an OK GPA and very mediocre scores who got into several Ivies. Those kinds of stories make me wonder.</p>
<p>My donations to my undergrad can be designated to either general use or financial aid. I designate 100% of my donation to financial aid. I want admissions to be need blind. The endowments enable the scholarships! Those are made up of previous/current alumni donations and earnings on the principal.</p>
<p>A lower middle class kid could almost certainly go to HYP for less $ (EFC) than many other less selective and/or public schools. Just a fact, no commentary. Check out the financial aid calculators readily available at many college admissions sites. </p>
<p>I would be fine with my kid getting a free ride at our great state school versus paying $50,000+ per year at a more selective school. As I said earlier, we have worked hard and saved (and been through 2 job losses). My kids are in public high schools. We drive old cars and just have the one home (with a mortgage). I think it is ridiculous to assume that all full pay kids are entitled, spoiled, coddled. </p>
<p>This middle/upper middle class mom is tired of all the misinformation, preconceived biases, and hate on this board. All our kids deserve access to good schools. None (mine included) are entitled to a free ride at a private elite school!</p>