<p>"Why? The EFC is the same for 5 children as it is for 1 child. If the EFC is half the salary, the family probably has large assets (as does ours). "</p>
<p>I am sorry, I misunderstood.</p>
<p>So, I guess I misunderstood this as well:</p>
<p>“But there are a lot of families where the 100% EFC is more like 50% of salary”</p>
<p>Are there are a lot families like that? What would there numbers have to look like?</p>
<p>DocT… As I said my husband had a great job years ago and we paid off our mortgage. Our property taxes are high even though we live in a small house by the standards of my community. You would be surprised what people could accomplish by not spending money on things they can’t afford. Since my husbands job lose our life style changed drastically. We went through more savings than we ever would have imagined until he joined me in my business. Things were going fine until this year and now we have taken a hit again with this economy. We have learned through the lean years how to make the most of our money and our kids education was our primary concern. We did take out money against our home when our daughter was at her first year of private college but when that situation did not work out to either her or our satisfaction she came home. She now commutes and lives at home. The state school has provided $1,000 for her to attend, while MIT and Cornell have been very generous but certainly not free. Our number one expense is tuition and from what I have seen to this point, my kids have made it worth every penny of our investment. I would do it all over again knowing how their schools have impacted their lives. </p>
<p>If parents choose to make education a priority they will do so without crying the blues. There is no better investment than the one we make in our childs education. My kids have always known I would do just about anything to see them stay at their schools and seeing what they are doing with it has been the greatest joy. </p>
<p>I just can’t listen to people make excuses for why they won’t or can’t pay. If the top schools say you have a $50,000 EFC than as far as I can see that family has done something wrong if they don’t have or want to spend the money. If people want to live their lives like college tuition is not going to roll around at some point than that is their problem. I have a neighbor that is b$@#% and complaining that it is going to be hard to keep their second home in Paris. Give me a break.</p>
<p>momma-three…please stop. I don’t want to give you all the detail about why my family cannot spend 1/2 of our income to send our two kids to elite schools although the schools say that we could. Yes. We could if we wiped out our retirement. But my husband has a chronic illness that could force him on disability and my daughter has had massive health problems. But our income is high. Today. Just please stop. I’m cool that your kids get a lot of help going to “better” schools than I can afford, but you truly do not know other peoples’ circumstances. You really do not. It is what it is. My kids are in good public Honors programs. They can do anything they want with their educations. But you got a gift. Just be thankful. I know that I am thankful for mine.</p>
<p>Well said, momof2kids. Agree particularly about
Add to that defensiveness and rationalization too. </p>
<p>A friend of my younger s chose to attend an OOS midwestern state U, far from our locale. His parents were almost embarrassed to tell where their s had chosen to attend. They seemed sheepish and seemed to feel the need to explain or justify, to their chagrin, their s’s choice. My thought was “Congrats! He got into and is attending a school he really loves”. And it was a reasonable cost (I believe) to boot. An added bonus. But she seemed to feel insecure, and needed to explain or justify, when none was needed. I am guessing because they were/are a professional family able to pay full fee anywhere who put a lot of focus on top academics and achievement, that that somehow meant their s was supposed to follow his dads footsteps and attend any ivy. That was his dads issue, not his (similar to the thread about the NYT article that rodney started a few days ago). I felt badly for the defensive parents, and moreso for the kid whose parents were embarassed by their s’s choice.</p>
<p>“I don’t want to give you all the detail about why my family cannot spend 1/2 of our income to send our two kids to elite schools although the schools say that we could.”</p>
<p>As I have said, there are lots of different life stories out there, and the universities aren’t realistically able to account for all of them. I am quite sure there are folks with 100% EFC’s for whom their EFC is not realistic. I also am quite sure there are middle income folks with EFCs between 0% and 100% whose EFC’s are not realistic. I am NOT questioning anyone’s personal lifestory. I AM questioning the assertion that college is systematically easier at lower income levels. AFAICT, it is not.</p>
<p>I do understand debrockman… I have a son with severe health issues and this too played a role in our ability to pay. I am not saying that all parents have thrown their money away on frivolous spending but many have. Medical expenses are one of those things that the need based schools take into consideration.</p>
<p>My DD had learning (ADHD/executive functioning) and social issues over many years - this impacted spending on a number of supports, on a summer program (CTY - it was very expensive even with aid, but we felt it was a HUGE boost to social development) and also impacted my wife’s earning ability. </p>
<p>There are costs of all kinds that folks have all across the board - they aren’t confined to folks with incomes north of 180k.</p>
<p>Not if your income is over 250,000 and you saved a lot of money for an anticipated early retirement due to disability. Look. We are lucky. My husband has been able to work longer than we ever expected and we DID save. But those savings were put aside for a very specific reason and we put aside enough money to pay for a good quality public university. Just please stop generalizing about what people are doing with their money. I’m proud of what we have accomplished and I’m not jealous of what you have been given. Just consider it a gift. Because it is.</p>
<p>momma-three, not all of us full-pay families have second homes anywhere. Some of us haven’t been to Tuscany, Paris, and/or Hawaii. We’d appreciate you not lumping us in with your clueless, tactless neighbors. Thanks.</p>
<p>Also, this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Divorce, job loss, major medical expenses, support for impovershed family members, natural disaster, stock market tumble, change in career, recent significant upward change in income, surprise financial aid assessment due to being self-employed, needing to take early retirement: the list goes on and on. You’ve had your own very hard knocks. Some are able to manage to balance tuition on top of their reverses; some can’t. Unless you have specific insider knowledge of what’s going on in other’s lives and checkbooks, it’s not for you to judge who has “done something wrong.”</p>
<p>"None (mine included) are entitled to a free ride at a private elite school! "</p>
<p>Just curious, was anyone here arguing that any elite private has an OBLIGATION to offer a free ride to anyone? </p>
<p>Harvard (and few other institutions) seems to think that offering a free ride to folks below a certain income level helps them to attract the student body they want to attract. Thats not an obligation Harvard has, its a choice they have made. A choice that, I get the impression, some higher income folks resent.</p>
<p>My DD also has ADHD and almost killed herself before we discovered it. Again. Stop thinking that because someone has money that you don’t have that they haven’t got equivalent struggles. They might. But they have to pay their own way through them. Again. I’m just thankful that we could.</p>
<p>“Divorce, job loss, major medical expenses, support for impovershed family members, natural disaster, stock market tumble, change in career, recent significant upward change in income, surprise financial aid assessment due to being self-employed, needing to take early retirement:”</p>
<p>Most things on that list can and do happen to folks at lower income levels/EFC’s as well. </p>
<p>WRT to the stock market tumble BBD’s friend, back in fall 2008 “Did you lose a lot of money in the stock market”?<br>
BBD:“Not much. I wish I had lost a lot more” 
(get it?)</p>
<p>Stop thinking that because someone has money that you don’t have that they haven’t got equivalent struggles. They might. But they have to pay their own way through them. Again. I’m just thankful that we could.</p>
<p>That is a blessing. Unfortunately, for families who don’t have those resources, their children remain undiagnosed/untreated.</p>
<p>debrockman wrote:
</p>
<p>This was yet another attack on me, of course. I am not a particular fan of Miami-Ohio for many reasons. That is debrockman’s first choice for her son since the highly-selective schools won’t toss money to her. (and because she doesn’t want her son far from home) Not everyone on this forum is enamored with every school. I am a fan of many public schools and LACs below the top tier. There are many reasons to choose such schools. The fact that debrockman loses sleep over the fact that Miami Ohio doesn’t impress me is bewildering. </p>
<p>I am among those who prioritized education and who also was fortunate in my career (and H’s) as well as having some inheritance that allowed us to send our two kids to the schools they and we felt were the best fit for them. The older had some merit money for Rice and the younger was full pay at Penn. Oldest got 70% scholarship to grad school and youngest got a job after graduation. debrockman- You really need to move on and stop obsessing over me and my family. Please.</p>
<p>"My DD also has ADHD and almost killed herself before we discovered it. Again. Stop thinking that because someone has money that you don’t have that they haven’t got equivalent struggles. They might. But they have to pay their own way through them. "</p>
<p>My point was precisely that both income levels have struggles. We had to pay our own way through as well - except for CTY, no one gave us anything off on the things I mentioned. And CTY was still very expensive. </p>
<p>All we have is a lower EFC. But with that lower EFC will still have less money left over after paying for college than most folks with 100% EFC’s. And we live in a high COL area too. </p>
<p>BTW, while I sympathize with your retirement needs, ISTR from last time we did FAFSA that they excluded money in 401k/IRA accounts? Am I misrembering?</p>
<p>OK, moderator. Perfect example.</p>
<p>Brooklyndad…Most schools have different rules. They’re not all the same.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Of course. I was responding specifically to momma-three’s statement that if a family can’t afford to pay $50k a year that the school says they can afford, then the family must have “done something wrong.”</p>
<p>"That is a blessing. Unfortunately, for families who don’t have those resources, their children remain undiagnosed/untreated. "</p>
<p>some do get their kids diagnosed and treated. They make the choice to take transit to work so they can get by with one car while living in the suburbs. They have no TV set, let alone cable. Etc. Then they are told how need based fin aid makes college affordable for them,but not for high income folks, by folks whose difference between income and cost of attendance exceeds the entire income of the middle income family (whether that difference makes a Tuscan villa affordable or not, I dont know, and dont particularly care)</p>
<p>"Brooklyndad…Most schools have different rules. They’re not all the same. "</p>
<p>IIUC, a few schools do their own estimate, a number do CSS, and quite a lot just use FAFSA. ISTR that both CSS and FAFSA do not count money in IRA/401ks, though I could be wrong, esp for CSS. Of course I do not know the rules for all the schools that use their own methods.</p>