<p>“You asked ME what MY comments about using real estate agents had to do with SAT tutors. I never spoke about SAT tutors, so my comments about real estate agents would have nothing to do with SAT tutors. They were in response to your question about whether people spend $$ for the privilege of buying a car or house. The simple answer is YES THEY DO.”</p>
<p>I put the word “particular” into my original post for a reason. I know full well that people pay for the services of RE brokers. I said “particular” to indicate the price someone pays for access to a particular one above others, which implies that particular one has a non-market clearing price, money left on the table that justifies the price for access.</p>
<p>Good examples of this would be the “key money” i hear is paid in NYC as a way to get a rent controlled/stabilized apartment. Money paid in the old USSR to someone to get a place in line to a shop. Money paid for ration coupons, illegally in a standard rationing situation, or legally in a “white market” situation.</p>
<p>All of which are cases where the good or service in question is being priced BELOW its market clearing price, and so is being rationed in some way. </p>
<p>I do not say paying for generic search assistance (or, a fortiori, the help with the closing process that is one of the things we pay RE brokers for) .</p>
<p>I am sorry my sequence of posts on this subject has not made that clear. I found Erika’s hypothesis interesting and wanted to explore it. I do believe that the kinds of “johny inc” behavior we see discussed on CC is relevant evidence to that. None of this had anything much to do with the discussion of FA policies - though Erika did bring it up in response to a question of why list COA is the same at the tippy top privates and many privates with far lesser reputations. I think that itself is an interesting question, and that Erikas response was correct. I think, as she said, the acceptance rates themselves are evidence. I wanted to add supplementary evidence. You may or may not find that persuasive.</p>
<p>mythmom I am done with all this after this post. I wasn’t bragging nor I am without empathy, my point, clumsily made was that momma-three seemed to be assuming all full pay peolpe who take vacations and live in nice areas were entitled jerks and all FA recieving people were somehow better or more noble. I don’t assume anything about anyone based on their financial status. I don’t think the successful entrepeneur is better then the teacher or the police officer or the trash collector. Or more hard working, some professions pay better. People who have more resources should be grateful they can pay tuition. I think schools with large endowments don’t give enough FA. Harvard et al should be more generous to the student on the middle and lower financial ladder. sorry if you thought I was insensitive, but I have never put anyone down here or anywhere else based on their ability to pay tuition.</p>
<p>I re-read some of the posts on this thread. I think the net of it is that people want everyone to struggle equally. No “free ride” for FA kids, no “sky is the limit” for full pay kids. I re-looked at how my EFC was calculated…</p>
<p>Perhaps its the $27,600 allowance for a family of 4 to live on. We joke here that D gets $32,000 to go to college, the other 4 of us have $27,600 ($6,900 per year each). Perhaps it is this formula that makes full pay people feel like those that make < $60,000 are better off.</p>
<p>“Some street guy was busily trying to “help” people park and was hustling them for money. MY DH, the softie that he is, gave the guy $2. The guy peered into my DH’s wallet as he was pulling out the $2 and said “I see another dollar in there”. My husband said something like “well yes you do, but this is what I am giving you”. The unmitigated gall of that guy.”</p>
<p>Just today, Joseph Stein, the librettist for “Fiddler on the Roof” passed away at age 98.</p>
<p>among other gems, he wrote the following lines (pardon this is from memory I cant find a full quote on line</p>
<p>beggar:Alms for the poor, alms for the poor
Townsman: Here is one kopek
beggar: one kopek? Last week you gave me TWO kopeks
Townsman:I had a bad week
beggar: so if YOU had a bad week, why should I suffer? </p>
<p>We are expected to laugh at the beggar’s chutzpah, even while seeing that at some level there is logic to his outrageous claim. And to recall, fondly, a society whose view of charity (the yiddish/hebrew word is Tzedakah, which means justice, unlike the Latin caritas from love/heart) where such a view, if certainly rejected by the townsman as a practical matter, was at least conceivable.</p>
<p>"Why does the degree from a third rate college that is almost worthless in the job marketplace cost the same as a degree from a top ten school? "</p>
<p>-Not worthless at all. I and all my jobs are proof of it. Some places do not care at all where you got your degree, all they care that you have one because their official company policy do not allow managers to consider applicants w/o 4 year degrees for some positions. Most engineering companies and some others like to hire locally so that they do not need to pay relocation expenses. Only great elitist snob will tell you that degree from any place is worthless and you should have gone to Harvard. For one, I never care if my physician is Harvard trained, 80% of them in our city are from local Medical School. And again, to get to Med. School (any of them, including the highest ranked) one does not need to graduate from Harvard either. State school works just fine for this goal or maybe better, since GPA (and MCAT score) is the most important for Med. School admissions.</p>
<p>‘Perhaps its the $27,600 allowance for a family of 4 to live on. We joke here that D gets $32,000 to go to college, the other 4 of us have $27,600 ($6,900 per year each).’</p>
<p>I am confused. Are you at a FAFSA school? Dont answer if its too personal, but I wonder what income and what EFC generates that result?</p>
<p>^It is crazy that my D. got exactly the same $32K for her senior year - sum of her numerous Merit scholarships. However, at her school, it is strongly recommneded to file FAFSA for whole range of Merit scholarships. We have done it religiously. We are not eligible for need based, not anywhere close, we both have proffessional jobs, no mortgage, no loan of any kind, D. is the only dependant. We will file FAFSA this year, although D. is going to Med. School next year. Just in case, you never know.</p>
<p>In today’s economy, where job/career fairs are less well attended by potential employers, it does seem to matter if you went to Big name U vs Whatsamatta U. This is a tough economic climate. Residencies and internships have fewer slots, which affects the matching system. So while undergrad may or may not affect med school admissions, med school attendance will affect residency placement. True too for law school.</p>
I don’t see posting that people who don’t want to spend whatever EFC some FAFSA or Profile formula has cooked up for their kid’s education, are doing something wrong as non-judgmental.</p>
<p>One must be careful in saying a degree from a top tier school is no better then a 3rd rate school,…Attending college is also about the experience and the resources/facilities/school pride/activities/study abroad that are offered…Whether one wants to admit this,a top tier school,or state flagship school has significantly more to offer then a lesser school…And don’t discount the alumni connections that the aformentioned schools have…</p>
<p>That said, pay for what you can afford,but make every effort to get the best possible education for our children</p>
is off the mark. You might think your insulting comments to fullpay parents “should” only be insulting to some. But you don’t get to decide what insults someone else. And what should be apparent by the many posts here, making smackdown comments to full pays with the “caveat” that it should “only bother some if they feel that way” is total BS. It is a way of hurling the insult with a little asterisk beside it. Rubbish.</p>
<p>I don’t think we want this thread to devolve into another Tier-3-versus-tier-one debate (although it’s already devolved into one of those full-pay-versus-need donnybrooks, so who’s to say what’s best?)…</p>
<p>BUT… just wanted to say that so much depends on the student and the major and the unique circumstances of the school. It’s way more complicated than the “state school versus third tier” arguement of anecdotes we tend to get into. Some of those third tier schools have ferociously amazing departments or programs and equally amazing students in thhose speicalized departments…</p>
<p>… says the parent of a DD at one of those 2nd/3rd tier schools, where DD has blossomed and matured and now has at least one job offer waiting for her upon graduation!</p>
<p>"But you don’t get to decide what insults someone else. And what should be apparent by the many posts here, making smackdown comments to full pays with the “caveat” that it should “only bother some if they feel that way” is total BS. It is a way of hurling the insult with a little asterisk beside it. Rubbish. "</p>
<p>if I say “defensive backs who make dirty hits are jerks” and someone reads that as “defensive backs are jerks” that is, their problem. I am not responsible if someone misreads a clear, appropriately caveated comment. </p>
<p>Some people do or say things that are worthy of condemnation. To aim that condemnation correctly, caveats are necessary. “corrupt pols”, not all pols. “College kids who cheat”, not all college kids. “bankers who defrauded” not all bankers. It is not hurling an insult with a little asterisk beside it, its asserting ones belief, about specifically those who said or done the things one wishes to condemn.</p>
<p>Perhaps you never condemn anyone. Or perhaps you are offended that the population out of which I specified those who have said or done something I dislike was “full pays” and not pols, or college kids.</p>
<p>To late for that, the horse is already out of the barn, and it is definately going in circles. I think “some” (mainly one) posters enjoy hearing themselves type a little much. It is often said people from some NY boroughs talk in circles, or so I’ve heard.</p>
<p>Hey-- good news for you, scout59! USNews has expanded its tier system. Your d’s schools comes in at #136 of 191, so is solidly in their tier 1!!</p>
<p>I think those who are insulted may need to rethink what my post said and the vein in which it was said. I should not need to explain that many people find it smug that full pay parents seem to begrudge those students who trully have need. I am in a different catorgory because we had four in school at the same time (three now). We do pay more than most of those who pay for one kid every year but of course I have multiple kids attending so our COA has reflected that. Our kids also have loans and have worked while attending school, one of our kids have worked full time. I will not apologize to the people who are smug and my comments were not directed at anyone person. It is a observation both here and in real life. If you pretend this does’nt exist than you are not being honest. That is why I am getting the backlash…I pointed out the ugly truth.</p>
<p>"I should not need to explain that many people find it smug that full pay parents seem to begrudge those students who trully have need.'</p>
<p>since the only person who explicitly and consistently did that, does not seem to be posting anymore, I am going to suggest there is a vague consensus here.</p>
<p>I live in virginia and I know of full pay families, including quite wealthy ones (not sure what their relationship to Tuscany is ) who are sending their kids to UVA (including in some cases, IIUC, kids who got in to Ivies or “near ivies”) Its a great school, an excellent fit for many, and if they can use their savings to pay for grad schools, or to fund an entrepreneurial kids first business, or ANYTHING ELSE THEY CHOOSE, I say, more power to them. Really. I do not begrudge them.</p>
<p>For reasons I will not rehash here, our family was agreed that no Va public was a good match for DD. She got a FA package from RPI that made our out of pocket expenses similar to what they would be at a VA public, and leaves her with manageable loans. The package includes federal loans, need based grants, and merit based grants. None of the full pay folks we know personally begrudges DD that, AFAICT, and I think they are all being honest in their congratulations. </p>
<p>So all is good. Well, not all - not wars and cholera epidemics and environmental degradation - but in terms of mutual respect for college choices, among people we know, it is good. Lets move on.</p>
I have to admit I know a few of these … although the second home tends to be a very nice summer cottage. That said I’ve never heard a peep of a complaint about being full-pay from any of these families.</p>
) who are sending their kids to UVA (including in some cases, IIUC, kids who got in to Ivies or “near ivies”) Its a great school, an excellent fit for many, and if they can use their savings to pay for grad schools, or to fund an entrepreneurial kids first business, or ANYTHING ELSE THEY CHOOSE, I say, more power to them. Really. I do not begrudge them.</p>