<p>Anecdotes are not evidence, but for my younger d., we found it definitely the case that colleges and universities (big and small, state and private) can see beyond the standardized test scores. My younger d. applied to 7 schools, at five of which her test scores placed in the bottom quarter of accepted students, let alone applicants. She was accepted at six of them. She now attends a school where she would be in the bottom 15% SAT-wise, and got all A's and A-minuses her first semester, while many of her classmates struggle.</p>
<p>So she should try to increase her test scores, but don't make any assumptions that she necessarily will. We used the Xiggi method (which I love, in theory), and other approaches, and they never made one whit of difference. More important, perhaps, is to help her think about her assets, and how she can enhance them, and how can she ensure that it will be possible for them to be recognized.</p>
<p>My daughters psat was similar to your daughters and her gpa was also 3.2. Gpa in the 11th grade is almost impossible to improve by the time transcripts are submitted. Our school submitts gpa as of the end of the year, therefore the 11th grade is it. Colleges of course find their own methods for intrepreting the transcripts so you should probably familiarize yourself with what colleges she wants to go to and see where her gpa will get her. As for sats,my daughter also had low math scores and was able to bring it up 80 points. We hired a tutor, a teacher from a close town. My daughter really didnt like the teaher and she usually gets along with everyone. We put her in an sat prep class and made sure she did the work. Given this her sats landed at 1760 and her gpa remained at 3.2. She has been accepted to one state school, deferred at the other and rejected from a college we thought she had a good shot at. She is waiting for early decision at another and to hear from two others. If she does not get into the early decision and/or the others she is probably going to go to the state school. </p>
<p>Its really good that you are doing something in advance because you dont want to set false expectations for her. Good Luck</p>
<p>More and more schools are going SAT optional. </p>
<p>There are many many great schools for a student like the OP's daughter, even if her SAT score is exactly as it looks like it could turn out. Many of the Colleges that Change Lives and schools like them are terrific schools and are not looking for tip top SAT scores.</p>
<p>
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I think in the "real world" her people skills will do as much for her as her brother's academic prowess will do for him... but my current quandry is finding a way to maximize her college choices.
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</p>
<p>I think we are parenting the same children. And likewise, I would never encourage my daughterto give up her ECs. She's on drill team - was an officer on JV, hopes to be an officer on varsity next year. It really plays to and strenthens her social skills, teamwork, leadership...the things that are going to make her succeed in adult life anyway. Yes, she has to listen to her English teacher tell the class how her brother read Dante on his own, but who do most employers want to hire - "reads Dante for fun" or "can lead a team on an important project"?</p>
<p>Reading CC can skew your view on test scores so be sure you are also taking into account that 1) there can be remarkable changes between PSAT and SAT, 2) there are great schools that are test-optional. and 3) there are wonderful schools that would find your daughters grades and scores (even if they did not get higher) perfectly acceptable and even worthy of scholarships. And she should definitely consider taking the ACT since some kids just naturally do better there. Her scores are not "bad" scores in the larger scheme of the universe by any means. Focus on test scores and ranks can make parents and kids crazy and be bad for the relationship between them so go slow and steady and trust her innate good student-ness and support her in doing her best and looking broadly for schools that don't make decisions just on numbers.</p>
<p>I asked DH the question above, "What is a kid with good grades but poor SAT scores?" and he said, "ME!" ha ha. I forgot that DH always struggled with multiple-choice tests, I think he just reads too much into them. Anyway DH has been very successful in life, despite his struggles with the SAT. I'm not a fan of that test either, I think there are a lot of people making money off of it. Hopefully colleges will look at your D's grades and schedule, and not make too much of the math SAT score (if it doesn't rise between PSAT and SAT).</p>
<p>
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back to my original question. If High SAT + Mediocre Grades = Slacker, then what does Decent Grades + Weak SAT = in the eyes of a college?
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Let's hope that whatever stereotype we might ascribe to the combination won't really apply; and that they'll take the famed "holistic" approach to get a true picture of your D.</p>
<p>But... if you really want a stab at it, I'd say</p>
<p>optimistically, "a hard worker"
pessimistically, "easy grading high school, might not be able to do the work at our college"</p>
<p>I think this daughter's SAT's and GPA are consistent with one another. In the end, I think she will have a very even profile. If her SAT scores do end up being weaker, she will be viewed as a harder working student than her scores show...but at this point..that wouldn't be by much.</p>
<p>"BTW, back to my original question. If High SAT + Mediocre Grades = Slacker, then what does Decent Grades + Weak SAT = in the eyes of a college?"</p>
<p>I think that is not a good question to ask. You should never be worried about what a college will think if you are doing EC's you love and are passionate about what you do. I think it tells the college nothing personally, but who knows. It depends on the courses, the high school, and numerous other factors. </p>
<p>I am not a college ADCOM, only a HS senior who aspires to do great things in life. I think your D is on the right track for college and should apply no matter her SAT score, but remember that it may be a reach, [idk about the LAC, but a 3.2 UW seems on the low side for any highly selective school, unless there is some type of hook, something to keep in mind]</p>
<p>However, what I can tell you is that SAT scores don't magically increase with the help of a tutor or a prep class. Like a college education, the effort you put in will dictate the reward received. The only way to truly get better on the SAT is to analyze the last SAT test you took and look at the questions you missed and why you missed them. </p>
<p>I don't mean to sound rude or abrasive (I am very sorry if I do), all that I am saying is that people on CC are very good about the college process, but we cannot know what a college ADCOM thinks, we can only give advice, based off of anecdotes and personal knowledge of the college process, so that is why I believe this thread shifted toward a more how to do better on the SAT, or how to succeed with low SAT rather than answering you original question.</p>
<p>We weren't really hoping for a highly selective school except her brother's LAC, which as I said I have reservations about for D anyway. I want her to look at Marist, Quinnipiac, Muhlenberg, and similar (I'm open to suggestions). Also UMass. And we need a few safeties.</p>
<p>If her SATs end up being about 1200 or more combined CR/Math, she'll be in better shape for Marist, Quinnipiac, Muhlenberg (isn't it SAT optional?). </p>
<p>Are you instate for UMass? If not, where ARE you instate? Would she consider a smaller LAC like York in PA?</p>
<p>Instate schools have certain requirements that make it very easy for instate students to get accepted. I know in Oregon as long as the students maintains a 3.0+ GPA they are automatically enrolled as long as they apply. If this is the case in your state, then you would have a very good safety [as long as D like the state school].</p>
<p>Muhlenberg is SAT optional if you submit a graded paper and have an interview. So that's a possibility. </p>
<p>We are instate for UMass, but the only Mass state school we would consider is UMass Amherst (flagship). The state colleges and other UMass campuses are heavily commuter/part-time, not at all the atmosphere D wants. UMass Amherst is becoming much more competitive and I expect that to continue, given this economy. D's math SAT will have to come up to get in there, they are very numbers-driven. Their website claims the entering class had a 3.5 GPA on a 4.0 scale (I find that hard to believe. S's GC had told us that Mass state schools weight honors classes +.5, if that's true then her GPA would be 3.6, not 3.2). But UMass's mid-50% for SAT CR starts at 510 and for Math starts at 540, average rank is top 21%. There are no "guarantees" for Mass hs students to get into any UMass school, unlike some other states. But I know a lot of kids who go to UMass from our hs and academically D would fit right in with them.</p>
<p>I'm hoping with help her SAT scores will rise; she IS a bright kid! Also, the reason her GPA is only 3.2 is that freshman year she took ALL honors classes, which was a mistake on top of her heavy EC involvements. She ended up with 2 B's and 3 B-s, which gave her a core unweighted GPA of 2.8. Soph and Jr year she cut back to 3 honors classes, and her unweighted GPA each year has been around 3.5. All her electives are Honors Art classes and phys ed, and they're all straight A's. A smaller, private school like Marist or Quinnipiac will look at her grades trending upwards, also at EC's (which are very strong), whereas UMass has to pretty much go by numbers due to the sheer volume of applications.</p>
<p>She wants to be at least 1 hour from home, possibly in the NY/NJ/PA area, or southern New England. She also wants a school with a fairly balanced gender ratio, which is going to be a problem - most of the colleges in her grade-range are going to skew female-heavy. She thinks she wants to major in Psych, which most schools offer, so that's not an issue.</p>
<p>I'll repeat my suggestion of York College in PA. It is a modestly priced, smaller liberal arts college.</p>
<p>You might also want to look at Keene State College in NH. Price is modest and there are lots of CT and MA students there too.</p>
<p>Schools that are competitive academically will be looking for a strong and aggressive courseload, not the highest GPA. Taking honors classes in elective areas will not help if the colleges do NOT use elective classes (arts, etc) in the recomputation of the GPA. Many colleges recompute the GPA using only the core courses and not the electives. </p>
<p>There are a couple of threads on this forum...one that talks about colleges for average students...and another that discusses colleges for B students. You might want to do a search for them OR perhaps someone will post the link for these threads (I haven't yet figured out how to do that).</p>
<p>Other schools you might check out: Drew, Susquehanna, Hofstra, Adelphi, Fairfield, Sacred Heart, U of Scranton, Manhattan College, LaSalle, Hobart William Smith, McDaniel (Md), Moravian, Elmira, Elizabethtown, Fairleigh Dickinson, Roger Williams, Le Moyne, Wagner</p>
<p>There are so many more. You just have to start looking. I think that she has plenty of options, including Quinnipiac (apply early and make sure everything is in order). Marist has gotten a bit more competitive, but possible.</p>
<p>Oh, off hand Drew and HWS are SAT optional. Not sure if they require a graded paper, etc.</p>
<p>Thumper.... as I have repeatedly stated, the 3.2 is a CORE UNWEIGHTED GPA. It does NOT include her electives. (Her total GPA including electives is 3.5 unweighted, 3.7 weighted). I have followed the B+ student thread very closely. </p>
<p>NEMom, thanks for the list. I had Fairfield on her list until the PSATs. I had also considered Drew, and DH suggested Scranton. I should probably have her look at Roger Williams (one of my neighbors was accepted there and I know his grades were below D's and he didn't take any honors classes, so I'm thinking it's a true safety).</p>
<p>I'd love for her to look at UVM, St Michael's and Champlain, but she refuses to go north. Too cold. (sigh) Burlington is a great college town!</p>
<p>Your welcome. I have not looked up Fairfield's midrange, but I guess I put it on because I know a student who I never thought would get in, who is doing very well there. I would say that he was a C+/B- high school student. I would have thought Fairfield was a reach, and frankly the decision to go there was made very late. I do think that it was likely that he could have been taken from a waitlist, but I am just guessing.</p>
<p>I agree that Roger Williams would be at least a low match, if not a safety.</p>
<p>Champlain and St. Michaels are good choices too. UVM can be expensive OOS. I think that Champlain would be also in the low match/safety group. If she does not want Vt., I would not push the cold. Burlington is a very nice place to go to school! </p>
<p>You might look into Simmons College too, if MA is okay.</p>
<p>Just editing, another possible safety in NJ would be Monmouth College.</p>
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<p>I have repeatedly stated, the 3.2 is a CORE UNWEIGHTED GPA.>></p>
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<p>I'm sorry...I must have misinterpreted what you wrote earlier.</p>
<p>If you are looking for another safety, I'd suggest looking at Salve Regina in Newport. The town is lovely and the school is nice as well. It was my D's ultimate safety and they even offered her significant merit aid. Might be worth checking into. I know around here, lots of kids who apply to Roger Williams also apply to Salve.</p>