<p>Hi all. I'm relatively new to CC with very few posts but would love to get some parental advice rather than from the many well informed students who regularly publish very enlightening comments on these threads. </p>
<p>S was one of the few fortunate kids to get accepted at Stanford EA and we are thrilled. We are in that dreaded "upper middle class" income bracket where we will qualify for zero "need" based aid. Additionally, the 529 plan, which we've been saving for about 7 years, has dropped from 70K to 40K in the past year. Also, our Southern California home value has dropped another 200K in the last few years. Thus, we have very little equity but we do make a decent living such that we could probably afford to pay 35K/year for school, use some of the 529 balance each year, and S could get an unsubsidized Stafford loan for the difference, or he could work.</p>
<p>The real dilemna is IF he gets a scholarship offer from Vandy or Duke, the schools he has RD applications at, does he forget Stanford? At 17 he says he wants to be a lawyer but as we all know, much can change over the next four years. I'm pretty certain the BA from either of the other schools isn't quite as prestigious as one from Stanford, but in the scheme of things, will it really matter? Additionally, if he goes to a good law school, will it matter where he got his undergraduate degree from?</p>
<p>As a final thought, we are leaving it up to him. I don't want him coming to us in the future saying something to the effect of, "Why didn't you let me go to Stanford"!</p>
<p>Thanks in advance for any/all comments. And good luck to all of your kids in this incredibly unique, yet at times stressful process.</p>
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I'm pretty certain the BA from either of the other schools isn't quite as prestigious as one from Stanford
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<p>Tell that to a Duke or Vandy grad ;) Just kidding. IMO, they are all great schools, and if your son can get a BA from any of these without a penny of debt - he'll be FINE.
Law schools mostly care about GPA and LSAT scores.</p>
<p>I'm not sure whether you're asking for the academic (not football) reputations of the schools, or whether your son is being recruited for and might receive football scholarships from Duke and Vandy? If the former, Duke's rep is probably the equal of Stanford's, with Vandy not far behind (in fact here in GA, I would guess that most people would think that Duke trumps Stanford in prestige). If football is a concern only from a spectator standpoint, then . . . hey - the basketball season starts as early as November!</p>
<p>I truly meant no disrespect to either Vandy or Duke. We all know those are two of the very best schools in the country, but as my son has said recently (probably because of his acceptance letter), "They're not Stanford". I agree with the idea that he should have no debt if possible, but the unsubsidized Stafford loans, which interest starts immediately on, will max out at only $27,000 for the four years and we will pay the interest while he is in school so the balance won't go up during college for him. </p>
<p>As for the law school remark regarding LSAT and GPA, is it your opinion that the Stanford degree won't have a significant impact on his ability to get into a top law school when compared with Duke or Vandy if his GPA/class standing is similar at either of the three schools? I'm assuming his LSAT score won't be impacted by whichever undergrad school he attends.</p>
<p>In Tennessee Vandy trumps Stanford! :) To me, this is a tough one. I guess you need to wait and see what happens with Vandy and Duke. I am assuming he isn't playing football at these schools or this would already be a done deal.</p>
<p>Any of these undergrad schools, coupled with a strong GPA and LSAT, will yield good law school acceptances. However, remember that the majority of students change their major and career aspirations during college. If your son is likely to return to California to live/work, the edge goes to Stanford.</p>
<p>The football title of the post was only in response to a similar post i read this morning from another parent who had essentially posted three options for his son including and not including playing Div. 1 football. My son is not an athlete and it is only academics that are issue.</p>
<p>Where do you live / where is he likely to live after school? </p>
<p>If on the east coast or in the South the value of Duke or Vandy is probably near that of Stanford. Out here in California, IMO, Stanford is higher than Duke and far higher than Vandy. </p>
<p>As for Law School, there is three theories as I have heard </p>
<p>1) that only LSAT scores matter - so go where school is cheap/free and study for the LSAT</p>
<p>2) GPA and LSATs both matter - so go where you can get the highest GPA and then study for the LSAT</p>
<p>3) Where you go to undergrad matters - and therefore go to a top 10 school - and study like crazy for the LSAT.</p>
<p>From my limited observations, case 3 appears to be somewhat true for the top Law schools - but there are exceptions in every class that fall into 1 or 2.</p>
<p>Personally, I'd pick Stanford and find a way to pay for it - but then again, I am a CA person.</p>
<p>Yes, he has visited all 3 schools and fell in love with all 3! :) So that's not really a factor. Whether he wants to remain in CA also is up in the air in that he hasn't expressed a desire one way or the other, yet he's born and raised here. He understands the differences in the climates but probably doesn't fully appreciate the differences in the local cultures, assuming they exist in the first place. Palo Alto is very similar to the OC, where we live. Durham is far more ethnically diverse yet it seems the Duke kids don't spend too much time there and Nashville, in my opinion would be the funnest of the three cities to go to school in. Of course, my opinion doesn't really matter!!! </p>
<p>Anyways, maybe we are putting the cart before the horse in the sense that he hasn't been admitted to either school nor have they offered scholarships. But, the month of April doesn't really give you much time to make such an important decision either. So, I/we appreciate the input.</p>
<p>Are you sure you won't qualify for any aid at Stanford? Dad II is a poster here with a child at Stanford on very generous aid despite making a decent income.</p>
<p>Our EFC per FAFSA and a number of other calculators we have used on the web indicate about $60,000. Not that we have $5,000/month available even if it did cost that much! So, unfortunately we don't qualify for need based aid.</p>
<p>We have spoken with their FA office and verbally told them what we make and what assets we have. The rep. was very nice, understanding, but said essentially NO. She said they are strictly a need based school and go solely on what the EFC says.</p>
<p>I am a huge Vandy fan and think Nashville is the most fun city in the country. However, a choice between Vandy and Stanford would be a no-brainer in favor of Stanford if there was any way at all to pay for it. I am not a big Duke/Durham fan and it really would take a lot to turn your back on Stanford in favor of Duke, even with $$$.</p>
<p>Sounds like you've got the money. At $50k a year in cost, 35K out of pocket, $10k from the 529, and $20k in loans to your son over four years would seem to me to be very doable. So the question will be not whether you can afford it (you clearly can), but whether, if large merit money is offered, the $50k is worth it to you?</p>
<p>It won't make one whit of difference in terms of law schools. You should focus on what the value-added of Stanford will be over four years over and above what the other school will cost (which you don't know yet), and what the alternative uses of the funds might be. Straight up, the choices are easier.</p>
<p>According to a definitive Gallup poll on the subject of university prestige, in the SOUTH, people ranked Stanford more highly than either Duke or Vanderbilt. This ranking differential is more pronounced in other regions of the country.</p>
<p>Thanks "mini" for your thoughts. Those are excellent considerations. You are absolutely correct, we can afford Stanford but is the price too steep in the big picture. Additionally, if we do spend the money for undergrad, with a daughter exactly 4 years behind, we won't be able to help him at all for grad school since we'll be helping her with college and likely won't have much in reserve. </p>
<p>I'm surprised at nyccard's post regarding the Gallup pole. I have heard the contrary on this board regarding Duke's regional prestige. I would tend to agree regarding Vandy but at some point are we really just splitting hairs if the ultimate goal is grad school?</p>
<p>Also, I suppose the only opinion that matters regarding prestige is for grad school admission committees or future perspective employers. So again, are all 3 of this schools sufficient to get where he wants to go in life? I tend to think so, but again it's not solely up to me :)</p>
<p>Anecdotes are not evidence, but for what it is worth, my d. is in a very prestigious graduate program at Princeton. Scores of applicants for a very small number of places. Not a single one of the other students in her program comes from the Ivy League, Stanford, Amherst, Williams, or Swarthmore. Among the faculty (virtually all with graduate degrees from prestigiouus places), only one has an Ivy League undergraduate degree which is the same number from the University of Missouri-Kansas City and Brooklyn College (which is where one of their MacArthur Fellows got his degree). These are the people Princeton trusts to teach its undergraduates.</p>
<p>Anyhow, this is a non-issue just now. Wait for the offers to come in. Personally, with a nephew who has just graduated from Duke, I am not a Duke fan, but I'm sure others will feel differently. This will be a nice problem to face.</p>
<p>Interesting anecdote mini. Care to hazard a guess as to why your daughter's colleagues are not from the Ivies or the LAC equivalents? In line with your "anecdotes are not evidence" theory, I do know someone who went to Cal State Fullerton (a far from prestigous local school) undergrad and Harvard Law School. Obviously admissions officers know what they are looking for to fill their seats but it is very curious whether the "prestigous" undergrad degree is worth the money? Maybe that'll be another thread!</p>
<p>I do know, but it would take awhile to write out. In short, in her case (which may or may not be generalizable, which is why I wouldn't post it here), better undergraduate preparation (especially in languages) than the Ivy, etc. applicants were coming in with, and hence better prepared to undertake research in her field at an earlier time. (Of course, I don't know that, since neither I nor she has ever seen the rejected applicants, but she has picked that up in discussions that have happened since she's been there.)</p>