I attended two classes and many of the kids were great, but the discussions certainly lagged and, worse, a small minority of the male students were zoned out, entirely disengaged, and very sullen. The same “type” of boy in both classes–male, stereotypical old school preppy-jocks–made up that small minority. Harkness can only work if all the students are fully engaged and prepared, and that clearly wasn’t the case in my small sample. More important, the bad behavior of that minority that I encountered in class was reflected on campus, where I was struck by the chasm separating the demeanor of the girls-- who were without exception engaged, cheerful, considerate, funny, mature (eye contact, smiling, joking)–and that of the boys, some of whom were very nice, but many of whom seemed immature and uncomfortable in their own skin. A not-insignificant minority of the boys struck me as swaggering and snide–sure, they’ll probably grow out of it, but, overall, I was very disappointed in the male student body. I hate to draw distinctions based on ethnicity, but the Asian boys seemed much nicer than the old-school preppy boys (my son is “white” and a serious two-sport athlete, and his parents are old-school Yalies, so it’s not that I’m misunderstanding the tribe, so to speak). My son reported that two of his three male hosts (he had three for odd reasons) were “pretty good but not great and sometimes sullen.” Sure, I can understand–as can my son–that being shadowed by an 8th grader might make a student a bit sullen, but one of them was in a bad mood because he’d spent far too many hours the previous night playing video games and was trying to spend a free period preparing for class (and hence wasn’t a very attentive host). We started the day absolutely ready to commit, but the day was a big disappointment. I’d love to hear any reactions, and would especially love to be told that my experience was non-representative and that I formed a misimpression.
Wow. I guess you and I were at different Exeters.
We had a disappointing revisit some years back (different observations that made for a less than stellar impression) and my child chose another school. Passed on another school because of a similar vibe to what you described above.
Have you been around high school boys much yet? Honest question because I think there is a type of teen boy like you describe in your post above that is common in a lot of places - public and private - and I agree its not pretty. I think the extent of the presence of such types can vary from campus to campus and even from class to class and dorm to dorm.
My kids always called them the “bros” and it wasn’t a compliment. Apologies to anyone who plays these sports but there were specific references to “lax bros” and “hockey bros” that projected a certain swaggering presence on campus. Not all athletes behave this way, however.
Was your son’s revisit host a freshman? Do you live close enough to the school to go back for another visit and look or do you have other options you’d rather consider? I wouldn’t be shy about asking for more time and another visit before committing one way or the other if you want to kick the tires some more.
I want to add another thought or two to my post above. First, although I do think that there is some of this type of high school boy at a lot of places, Exeter has less of a jock culture and a little more of a nerdy vibe (in the best sense) than many schools. Second, did you revisit today? I noticed, looking online at the Experience Exeter schedule, that there were 4 events this week -Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Boarding schools of Exeter’s rigor keep their students very busy on an average week between classes, sports, ECs, etc. This week was not an average week given the campus was hosting what probably amounted to 1,000 extra people (students and parents). If you visited at the end of this week, I wouldn’t be surprised if the students are a little sick and tired of the whole dog and pony show on top of keeping up with regular commitments,workload, normal end of the week exhaustion.
I noticed from your other posts that your son will be a day student which makes it easier for your family to visit again. Contact admissions and ask for that extra time and visit. Given whats on the table here in terms of the next 4 years, major $, and all the time and effort put into the application process, I think both your family and the school deserve another tire kick to see if your impressions are confirmed or not.
I didn’t see that in the English class I attended yesterday. The obvious jock boy students did indeed participate. It was a one year senior girl (basketball player) who barely spoke. She actually got up and left for a few minutes.
We knew going into yesterday that they had been through three others days of this gig and they (everyone from admissions to the students) would likely be ready to be done. We couldn’t go earlier in the week.
I think the reality is that although Harkness works best when are all involved- it rarely happens. But really all that matters is that your child is involved.
I think you should be realistic about your expectations. These are real live teenagers that we are dealing with. What you see is only part of the story. That easily could have been my son that you described as disengaged - their “behavior” in class doesn’t sound like it was disruptive to anyone. The fact is that if you saw my son in his English class that was discussing Shakesphere you would have seen a sullen disengaged kid. If you caught him in physics- you would have seen a passionate young man. Not every child loves every subject- even at Exeter. Some kids put up with the classes that are miserable for them - in order to enjoy the amazing ones.
If you are looking for for a magical school where every teenager is bright and shiny and excited for school everyday- I hope you find it and let us all know where it exists.
Can people stop trying to invalidate/trivialize someone’s less than perfect experience with a school just because we had a different experience and/or are affiliated with the school in question?
I’ve seen this happen a couple of times now (including to me a few years ago)…perhaps I’ve even done it myself. But it mostly seems to happen when someone has something less than flattering to say about the biggest “brand name” schools.
@SevenDad you are absolutely right to say that people should not try to argue down someone’s impressions or experience. However, I feel compelled to go ahead and say this. I suspect this thread to be fake/false/planted. For controversy or whatever. First, while there are boys like this across the world. Most of the athletes at Exeter and other top schools are not the very best athletes because they have to get in. Many of the athletes are also people of color and not by any stretch largely white. You see much more of this visible culture at other schools that I wont name that have dozens of kids going to D1 and further routinely. Anyway and more importantly to my point about being skeptical about the validity of this thread’s initial post is that we were there for two days. There are items in the post that are not accurate: meaning things worked and were scheduled in a way that to me says the poster is lying about being there. Experience Exeter was on the website but not complete details. I am not going to go into specifics and details here but I would happily disclose this information to anyone privately.
I was there–also for two days. I am not lying. That your impression was different from mine certainly doesn’t invalidate my experience–and I am certainly not trying to invalidate yours. You’ve also not read my post carefully. I have absolutely no interest in engendering this sort of bizarre discussion.
@SevenDad the OP asked for information on why their experience was not representative of the reality of life at Exeter. The intent of the responses seem to be to provide parent perspective to the question. I did not see one response that tried to invalidate or trivialize the OP experiences- just show another viewpoint.
I, like most parents on here have zero “skin in the game” on which school is attended. I try to add the perspective of a 4x BS parent. I beleive a great education and social experience can happen at any of these great school if the child takes advantage of the opportunities they provide.
I agree that nearly all the responses are helpful, and I am thankful to the responders who took the time and trouble to help me out. However, I think that the response of “Center”–who says that I’m “lying” and who suspects my post is “fake/false/planted”–is pretty much the definition of an effort to invalidate my experience.
“I did not see one response that tried to invalidate or trivialize the OP experiences”
Well, there was one post… :-"
@Mom2Melcs I did not notice that behavior at our Experience Exeter revisit last year during admissions cycle. However, I have a daughter so was probably observing/interacting with more girls than boys. Also, DD was entering as a Junior so was sitting in on upper level classes so maybe the boys had matured a bit more! I honestly think the “swaggering, snide, preppy jock type” of boy exists to some extent at most schools, boarding or not. DD is also a two sport athlete and at every school we revisited was paired with a host that also played one of her two sports. I imagine your son was as well and got an extra heaping dose of that attitude 8-|
Hopefully, the culture you experienced is not prevalent among most of the scholar athletes that will be your son’s teammates. Exeter is large enough that your son will be able to “find his people”. Is DS still considering Exeter or was this experience enough to dissuade matriculation?
OP, what are the alternatives? Have your revisited them? Exeter is a big school. I think your son will be fine. He will find his cricle and learn to ignoree the group of “minority” you have observed in revisit. That said, there’s one thing I think you should consider. As you noted, Harkness teaching method works best when all the students are actively engaged. Whether your statement is true is up for debate, but suffice it to say, with those individuals you observed being part of the community, chances are at least some classes will be run as you witnesses. Since Exeter uses Harkness for all classes, do you feel that’s the right type of learning environment for your son?
@Mom2Melcs, first off, congrats to your son’s acceptance at Exeter! It is an extraordinary school, and offers so many opportunities. I did not attend Revisit Days–so am not replying to your original request about others’ experience that day.
But, I do have a teenage daughter, and when we were chatting today, I asked her about her experience in the classroom. She is a senior at Andover (Exeter’s rival), and although some of her classes are decidedly NOT taught Harkness-style, (such as Calculus), many classes are much more Harkness-like (such as English, History, Evolution, and Human Development) which require preparation, active engagement, and robust discussion. I specifically asked about her experience and observations of “jock” boys versus non-jock boys and versus girls. I also asked her about how some of the jock boys were when they were in 10th grade (versus now as Seniors). Upon reflection, with the exception of PGs (Post Graduates, in which this would be there first and only year @ Andover), she felt the athletic males did participate actively in the classroom. I asked her by sport, and she recounted great observations of football players, track stars, cyclists – all of whom were active contributors. She remembered one boy that was not very vocal as a sophomore, but has come into his own as a senior in class–finding more of his voice, so to speak.
Andover and Exeter are different schools to be sure, but I suspect that the students that go to those schools have more similarities than differences. My kid is often fast to point out someone else’s flaws (she is a card carrying teenage girl), but bless her heart, she had nothing really disparaging to say about male athletes in an academic setting at Andover at all. So, maybe, like a couple of other posters suggested, it was either just an off day in those classes, or maybe you were in 9th grade classes?
I know it is a big commitment and expense to attend Exeter, but oh, what an opportunity. I hope that you and your son can find the “good” in the school. Even if there are a few lagging behind in some of the classrooms, the school offers so many other amazing options. Thinking of the science building literally brings a smile to my face.
All the best and good luck. :)>-
Thank you all (well, almost all) for your considered replies. This is a wonderfully supportive group.
I want to emphasize that I’m really not talking about male athletes per se, but what must be a small number of a small number of athletes who I suspect play the more stereotypical prep school sports (the kids were more ski-bum and lax types than football player types). My son plays a very jock-y sport and a pretty jock-y sport, so I’m not trying to be at all critical of athletes as athletes. And as the parent of a boy, I’m certainly not anti-boy, but I was struck by what I saw as the chasm between the maturity, social poise, and consideration of the girl students and the boy students. The girls as a group–urban intellectual types, preppy athletes, math geeks–were just off the charts amazing (and, again, the Asian male students struck me as nicer and more thoughtful than the male students as a whole).
I’m only reporting my observations, and while I certainly hope that I was observing the atypical and wrongly inferring that it is typical, I can’t discount those observations (and I make my living as a pretty keen observer). Please believe me: I wish I had observed something different. I wrote that post not in anger but with intense sadness. I would so love to be shown that my concerns are misplaced.
What’s your plan? Are you trying to decide whether your son will enroll in Exeter? Is what you observed in revisit a deal breaker?
I do think that there is a big difference in the maturity level (especially verbal/social) between 9th grade boys and girls. I also agree with some other posters here that revisit days can be tiring for all of the kids at these schools. It’s hard to keep up your enthusiasm for “hosting” on top of your regular workload. Plus, the weather isn’t helping 
I’m not saying that what you observed isn’t accurate in some way, or isn’t meaningful, and I’m not trying to convince you to ignore your instinct. I would suggest calling the AO and explain what happened, and see if you can visit again. People often do this, and I think that sometimes it helps to take another look. GL!
I would warn you not to make a judgement on what you saw. Not trying to start any conflict here, but I have seen this happen before. Both revisits AND their parents occasionally build up an image of what they WANT the school to be like, but in reality that is often not the case. Am I saying that both Andover and Exeter disappoint? Most certainly not. I can only speak about Andover, not Exeter, but in many ways the schools are very similar. I have gained some valuable perspective over the last four years. One thing I will definitely say is that especially in a 9th grade class, it is unlikely that everyone will be participating in a Harkness table. I remember being in 9th grade English four years ago, and I have to say very little has to do with the maturity of boys and girls, but rather the maturity of individual students, and sometimes just the circumstances of the day. I won’t lie: I think I was a total jerk to my revisit during freshman year. He did end up enrolling at Andover, but I only later realized how bad of a host I had been. I was embroiled in several conflicts, the least of which being a lack of sleep and poor athletic performance. I would go through a few days where I was the most active participant at the Harkness table, but then a few more days where I was one of those “sullen boys.” In essence, you should not be so quick to judge the school based on such a small sample. when I look at the type of discussions I am now having and even leading/moderating in English, I look back upon 9th grade English and think “What was I doing?” My two cents: Go back for another look. While expectation may not fully meet reality, the opportunity to attend a school like Andover or Exeter is both an honor and a privilege, and I truly believe that it is not an opportunity to be missed! Best of luck, and congrats to your son!
I recall one of our initial school visits that was so awful, we later laughed about it and said we should have stayed in the car. But that same school is very well-regarded, and is attended by several of my friends’ and colleagues’ kids, who have had a wonderful experience there and their parents have been much impressed. My point is this: Any visit, or revisit, is simply a snapshot of a very brief moment in time. A lackluster performance by a soloist who perhaps didn’t get enough sleep the night before, a seemingly boring class session, or a less-than-enthusiastic tour guide, on any given day, can color our impressions of a school in a major way. I agree with those who have suggested you return for another look. Believe me, you won’t be the first family to ask for a redo. Best of luck in choosing the school that feels right to him.