Deerfield - Gay Students targeted

Prep School Admissions
161

<p>Jenny, you need to stop posting, if you've lost interest in the thread. It went off course for a little while, but it's gotten back on track as appropriate to the site. Please, just don't post if you don't have anything to say--this topic is now of interest to some of us.</p>

<p>Bonnied, I got that feeling from some of the people I met, but you're going to find that at every high school in the nation. Sadly (to me), the culture isn't quite accepting---especially when it comes to teachers. Kids are developing and shy about everything re: sex at that age, too---more students are coming out in high school then when I was there, but it's still not everyone. So schools frequently end up being very closeted places. I didn't notice it more strongly at one school than at any of the others.</p>

162

<p>I think homosexuality is a particularly touchy issue at BS. When you have a community of 14-18 year old boys who exist in this adolescent nether world where they are no longer boys, yet still not men; and where they are struggling to come to terms with their own masculinity, you have an environment ripe for homophobia. The problem is further exacerbated because you all live with each other and share bathrooms, locker rooms, etc. It takes a pretty tolerant, mature and secure 14 year old boy to be ok with a gay roomate who (perish the thought) could potentially have sexual feelings towards him. </p>

<p>In fact, I just read an article in the paper today about some colleges who are permitting coed rooms (i.e. you share your room with someone of the opposite sex). Interestingly, the most frequent combination seems to be straight women and openly gay men, presumably because this is actually a more comfortable situation than a gay and a straight man rooming together.</p>

163

<p>seej.a.k.run: thank you for very much for your post! I appreciate that Deerfield may want to keep it a private matter, but when it appears in a newspaper of another boarding school, the cat is out of the bag. Many outside of the current Deerfield community were interested in hearing the facts, but all we had was one article, and not much comment from Deerfield, so that lead to a lot of speculation. I am not sure if you are gay or not, but I wish you good luck in keeping up the struggle for equal rights for all. I can't imagine having come out of the closet when I was in high school (more than 20 years ago), so seeing all of the Gay Straight Alliances at school is very uplifting. In a quote attributed to Gandhi "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." So, on the LGBT front, it seems we are at the "fight" stage, but only after that can equality for all win.</p>

<p>Bonnied: Trying to understand your post. Why were you bothered by what seemed to be closeted gays? Unfortunately, even though many people have come out, it is not easy for everyone, even if the environment seems supportive. Unfortunately, this same problem exists in many professional areas, not just education. I see this situation a lot in the legal field.</p>

<p>Biggestfoot: As stated before, I don't intend to directly respond point by point to your posts on sexual orientation anymore. It is simply not productive. If you have been accepted to Villanova (did you only apply in the last week, and now are accepted? Seems too fast to have already happened), that seems like that may be a more supportive environment for you. Good luck with your visits.</p>

<p>Jennycraig: I think now that we have had a post from someone actually at Deerfield, we are getting some more concrete information on the original post. If we try to keep the thread related to how a school is handling a sensitive topic, rather than a religious discussion of sexual orientation, then it can provide useful information.</p>

164

<p>How has asking us to voice our opinion on "closeted gays" at boarding schools, (both teachers and students) gotten us "back on track as appropriate to the site"? This thread was about the Deerfield incident, not whether or not we think there are closeted gays at boarding schools. I don't think there is anything wrong in discussing this situation-but I took the question "chime in on closeted gays" as a way to sit in judgement of other people (either because they don't have the guts to come out of the closet, or because they're gay in the first place). These individuals (teachers) Bonnie met may not even be gay.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If we try to keep the thread related to how a school is handling a sensitive topic, rather than a religious discussion of sexual orientation, then it can provide useful information.

[/quote]
BrooklynGuy, I just read your post and I agree with you. However, I would just add ...rather than a religious discussion of sexual orientation or guessing someone's sexual orientation this thread can provide useful information.</p>

165

<p>off the subject: There were coed rooms at Stanford in the 70's. Sometimes boy/girl friend; sometimes straight/gay; sometimes s/s or g/g. Also single sex g/g rooms. Not much changes in 30 years. </p>

<p>My student gov office was between the gay libs and the women libs. Boy did we have a lot of fun -- esp when we went out to bars together (tall fat guy holding hands and dancing with two beautiful women and/or two beautiful men).</p>

166

<p>Jennycraig: I thought Bonnied was asking us to discuss the problem of not feeling included enough to want to come out in BS, I did not interpret her remark as "I wonder if there are closeted gays lurking around my kid.</p>

167

<p>Jenny: I felt the same as Grejuni, bonnied (due to her mention of an active GSA) seemed to be asking if we felt there were more GLBT teachers and students than were openly stating so. It's an interesting point, and one that the students here will be addressing on their own soon enough. If that was not her intention, at least that is how I intended my response to be read.</p>

168

<p>a few things...</p>

<p>the sevens are NOT a school-sanctioned group. I had hoped that by the second part of my post it would have come across that deerfield is not accepting of the harassment or disrespect of any of its students by another member of the community. nor do they discriminate against any person for their sexuality, race, or gender. </p>

<p>goaliedad, you sound like a very intelligent guy. I did mean conservative in a social sense, but also a political sense. while I realize that being conservative does not make you a bigot, I have found that the two go hand in hand. you would be hard-pressed to find a liberal who is racist or sexist. that being said, one's political views do not define one as a person and I realize that sweeping generalizations should generally be avoided. </p>

<p>brooklyn guy: love you. I am an out lesbian at my school, in fact, and we've been working very hard to effect change at deerfield. it's been an uphill battle, but even a millimeter of growth is worth years of struggle. as for the publicity, this has actually been discussed and we all came to a consensus that it was not our duty to send out a PSA to the public, mainly for the protection of the students targeted. if anyone has any questions, feel free to contact the school. but some of the students who received letters were not out to their family, and the administration has kept in mind the need for the continued privacy of these students. but i admit, to the outside world, it probably doesn't look great at all. </p>

<p>everybody: I respect biggestfoot and his opinions. I dont agree with them, and I hope one day he will mature, but i have spoken with many christian fundamentalists about this, and i respect their conviction as much as i am disconcerted by it. however, i was informed by a dean that he was neither admitted nor waitlisted to the academy.
and as for closeted teachers and students (I can only speak for my experience at DA) it seems, as is the cultural standard, that women are much more generally accepted. we have several out female faculty living happily with their partners, however gay male faculty keep themselves well-hidden. mostly due to pressure from parents and trustees. it is in fact a rule that married, gay couples may not be faculty residents on an underclassmen hall. the same goes for students--it is much easier for girls to come out than it is for boys.</p>

169

<p>seej,</p>

<p>Thank you for the kind words. You have developed excellent skills in dealing with people different from you in a positive manner. And I think you have presented a thorough view of the inside of both the situation being discussed and the underlying relationships between gay and straight students and administration. I think the environment there is probably more common than many would think and I wouldn't be surprised if it were the norm at boarding schools.</p>

<p>I'm a little bothered that you see a hand in hand relationship between conservative political views and bigotry and liberal views with an absence of racism and sexism, it is your experience which is different from mine. That is a discussion for a different time, though.</p>

<p>And while DA chose to handle the situation in a private manner in deference to student and parent feelings and privacy, I'm not convinced that the event could not have been publically addressed if the specific identities of the individuals involved were not mentioned.</p>

<p>And understanding that the note while it made you and the other recipients very uncomfortable, was not directly threatening of physical violence (only a strongly worded desire to remove your diversity from DA, if I read it correctly) does leave open the possibility of counseling the angry student(s) responsible for the incident. The perpetrator(s) do have an issue (homophobia) that they are dealing with that they subconsciously know is not acceptable to present publically. Whether the perpetrator is acting out of defiance to the establishment or unthinking hatred can only be determined through a thorough interview/evaluation. Some thinking/behavior can be worked with. And with others, it is not worth the risk to the institution.</p>

<p>I along with others would be interested to hear if or when this issue is resolved. I know that DA would be very sensitive in what it has presented to the public, but if they handle it well, it can only serve as a credit to the institution.</p>

<p>Thanks again for your input.</p>

170

<p>all I do - yes, that is what I was talking about. I am disappointed and concerned to think that some educators do not seem comfortable with their sexuality enough to be open in front of students, while students are encouraged to be comfortable and accepting of each other. Seems like a double-standard and I was surprised and saddened by it. </p>

<p>Although I am straight and at this point it seems that my d is straight as well, our family is in the entertainment industry and my d attends a very open residential camp. This was a stark contrast.</p>

171

<p>See AKJ - thank you. Your point of view totally tracks with my experience. I find myself fortunate to function in a realm where, for the most part, being out is the norm. Kudos to those of you who can be yourself when those around you are asking you to be other.</p>

172

<p>Wait a minute, Seej, are you saying Biggestfoot WAS NOT waitlisted at Deerfield as he claims?
[quote]
however, i was informed by a dean that he was neither admitted nor waitlisted to the academy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Someone on this thread had said they wondered if Biggestfoot was actually who he says he is. I believed him when he said he was a 13 yr old Indian living on a reservation, but now, I am wondering.... In the past few weeks, he has said he was waitlisted or withdrew from a lot of schools. Yet when he first started posting on CC, he said the following:

[quote]
"I was waitlisted at Deerfield and in at Andover" on 3/12/08

[/quote]

[quote]
"Mercersburg (accepted with full FA), Cate, Hotchkiss, Taft: Accepted" on 3/11/08

[/quote]

[quote]
"Cate. I applied, interviewed in Nov and withdrew application" on 3/11/08

[/quote]

[quote]
"Accepted Hotchkiss: ... BiggestFoot," on 3/13/08

[/quote]

[quote]
"Accepted Taft: ...BiggestFoot," on 3/13/08

[/quote]

[quote]
"Turned down/withdrew: Mercersburg, Cate, Hotchkiss, Taft, Deerfield (WL). SPS, Exeter: no. Andover 25 WL. Late appl: Thatcher" on 3/15

[/quote]

[quote]
"i just got accepted (late, but I am a native american) for thatcher. Thought it was a good fit for me as I have been riding horses since I was 2.
I looked at cate, but did not apply as i thought the kids were snobs and on drugs (speed - really constricted eyes and fast talking)" on 3/22/08

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we've been had.</p>

173

<p>Interestingly, BiggestFoot posted on 3/27

[quote]
But, my dad had me apply without financial aid as he feels that it is his duty to help me and that the money should go to others.

[/quote]

I'm wondering how it is then he was "Mercersburg (accepted with full FA),"</p>

174

<p>BiggestFraud?</p>

175

<p>geez seej, you should ask your dean friend to check with JJL&ESL - and why my letter says "call if you change your mind". Oh well, maybe I will see you next week, look for a skinny guy with dark brown skin and a pony tail.
Linda, I did not say I accepted the FA - but that I withdrew.</p>

<p>It is interesting that gay rights have more supporters than "christian fundamentalists". Interesting that you all put my belief down, while some of the "outs are not out to their families". I think it was Linda who asked me how I would feel if a family member or child, etc. My answer would be by example of another christian fundamentalist, our VP</p>

176

<p>I never asked you anything at all about that. </p>

<p>I quoted you though above and you posted that
[quote]
But, my dad had me apply without financial aid as he feels that it is his duty to help me and that the money should go to others.

[/quote]

Those are not my words, those are yours.<br>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/477451-more-fa-efc-issues-3.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/477451-more-fa-efc-issues-3.html&lt;/a>
post #34 in that thread.</p>

<p>Not sure how you can tell someone to look for you next week since wait listers don't get invited to re-vist anyway...Are you now saying Deerfield took you off their wait list and you turned it down?<br>
This post:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/471751-master-list-2012-acceptances-8.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/471751-master-list-2012-acceptances-8.html&lt;/a>
post #114 you state that you were waitlisted at Deerfield.</p>

177

<p>I think that BiggestFraud is having a hard time keeping things straight (no pun intended). I have a friend on the Thacher board -- I'll see what he can dig up about this so-called "late applicant." I'm sure that late applicants haven't rec'd acceptances yet either.</p>

178

<p>I think my favorite part of this whole situation was the line of crap about being too proud to accept financial aid, but he has no problem in exploiting his native american heritage for special treatment, re: " "i just got accepted (late, but I am a native american) for thatcher."</p>

<p>But as I said before, I stopped believing in him a while back. He's a myth, like getting off the waitlist. ;)</p>

179

<p>lol allidoiswait.</p>

<p>Biggestfoot, I think you have a bit of clarifying to do.</p>

<p>I'll admit that the argument against you is getting WAY stronger. But, I'll give you the Benefit of the doubt, what is the REAL story(morning Glory)?</p>

180

<p>I don't include a merit scholarship the same as need based. One is earned and one is given.</p>

<p>Affirmative action is a great thing - esp after your people have been slaved or massacred or forced off their lands. For my applications in using AA, is it any different from those of you who are legacies?</p>

<p>And yes, if you call the school you are WA at, you can revisit if you are high. And as Brooklyn said, if you tell them that they are not your first or second choice, you will get WA instead of admitted. Mine with AA of call if you change your mind and you may revisit written on the paper.</p>

<p>I gave seej the names of my mentors at Deerfield - "any Dean giving out names is in serious trouble of violating confidentiality". </p>

<p>As to fast decision at Thatcher and Villanova, the teacher's faxed the rec's they had already done and one day to write an essay (actually used ones I had already written) and with AA - boom, rapid decision.</p>

<p>So, if you want to attack me. Fine. The point of this discussion, however, is whether gay is right.</p>