Deferred ED. Where did I go wrong?

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
1

<p>Hi, everyone. </p>

<p>I was deferred ED from William & Mary, and I'm wondering if anyone can give me any perspective on why this might have happened.</p>

<p>My stats:
Female
Caucasian
New Jersey
Private school
3.8 GPA weighted
I take <em>THE</em> most rigorous course load offered at my school
SATS (I have taken them once): 730 CR, 610 M, 660 W
I wrote what I have been told (by my AP English teacher, who personally supervised my revisions and read all drafts) is a very good Common App. essay
I also included an optional essay. I used an essay I wrote for my junior year Honors English class and got a 100 on. I got glowing responses from it, and it is deeply personal. It is about a defining moment in English class for me. (Side note: I want to be an English major.)
ECs: Captain of my XC team and a year-round competitive runner - I have won many awards for my performances, and I have qualified for track nationals three times in my high school career. I also plan on running for William & Mary and have made an official visit there and have met (and keep in contact with) the coach. I am also a member of The National Society of High School Scholars, was appointed to a student leadership conference in Washington DC, and am a member of my school's Student Library Association and Environmental Club.
I have had two of my writings published, one in a literary magazine and one in a newspaper.
I received a big award in middle school for my writing.</p>

<p>Two places I might have gone wrong:
1. For the "Additional Information" section in the "Writing" portion of the Common App., I did not respond to the prompt "Include any additional information that you would like to provide regarding special circumstances, additional qualifications, etc.", nor did I attach a document. Should I have attached a resume or something of the sort? I do have quite a few running honors that I was not able to fit into the "Activities" section.
2. I did not include any teacher recommendations. AGH. I knew that they were not required, but I did not know that we were, in fact, allowed to submit them. So stupid of me, I know. It is a huge regret of mine. Realistically, how much might this have factored into my deferral? I have a few teachers who think very highly of me and would be able to write me strong letters of recommendation.</p>

<p>PLEASE BE HONEST WITH ME. William & Mary is my number one school, and I WILL fight to be admitted RD.</p>

<p>Thank you!!</p>

2

<p>It is definitely not in leaving the “Additional Information” field blank. Your EC’s were fine, how you entered the EC’s were fine, and more than likely your essays were fine also. I do not think it was in not providing any recs, HOWEVER a strong rec or two would have helped you somewhat (but would not have been the solution) as to WHY I think you may have been deferred:</p>

<p>your GPA and test scores were toward the bottom in the applicant pool.</p>

<p>IF GPA and test scores is the reason, hopefully you won’t agonize over this too much longer. Good luck on wherever you end up. It will have a happy ending. It usually does!</p>

3

<p>The real thing hurting you the most? Being out of state. </p>

<p>Your GPA and SATs are below the median, especially if you consider the pool of applicants you were being compared with (out of staters), but no so much as to guarantee you won’t get in. No teacher recs definitely hurt you a little too. I can guarantee you not filling out the additional information section isn’t what got you deferred.</p>

<p>I’d try applying again with teacher recs, you never know! You look like a very strong applicant; I’m sure you’ll get in somewhere great even if it’s not W&M!</p>

4

<p>According to the Naviance data for our local (VA) high school, 45 students applied last year and the average GPA and SAT for accepted students were 4.3 and 2070. Out of state statistics will be higher. </p>

<p>It’s a difficult school to be admitted to from out of state. I doubt you did anything “wrong,” - it’s probably just that they have an abundance of well qualified applicants and can’t take them all. I would focus on some of the other fine schools that I’m sure will be happy to accept you and make your pursuit of William and Mary plan B for now. Best of luck to you!</p>

5

<p>I think ExceptMe and Runners2 are correct about being OOS probably hurting your chances the most and your GPA and test scores THEN needed to be near the top, not near the middle, for an OOS applicant. (I referred to a Princeton Review "Best Colleges book, that was a couple of years out of date, that showed your SAT score in the bottom 25% range.)</p>

6

<p>I beg to differ!
I am out of state, female, white. My test scores were a 1310 (680 CR 630 M) and I accidentally sent all my scores, including my previous 550 and 580 in math. My gpa was 3.63 out of 4.0. I don’t think you were denied b/c of your numbers, as you are clearly intelligent and test well. Admissions officers are creating a class-- and sometimes, like in our cases, they make decisions that seem to make no sense. Your deferral is not your fault, just be yourself, study hard, and you will find yourself at an excellent school. And I hope, for your sake, that school will be W&M.
Good luck and chin up!</p>

7

<p>max out your midyear grades, and send a teacher recommendation or two for the january deadline.</p>

<p>you need to contact the coach and ask for a frank assessment of where you stand in terms of the runners he/she is trying to bring in this year.</p>

8

<p>skydancer017---- I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU.</p>

<p>You did not get deferred because of your numbers. Its ridiculous to make that assumption. The college process is so random and you will never find a concrete reason as to why you were deferred. As long as you finish with a strong semester, you will still have W&M, but with the stats you posted about, you would be a competitive applicant at other schools as well.</p>

9

<p>You were deferred because of the numbers. No question.</p>

<p>The recs may have played a small part too.</p>

<p>Yes, W&M is known for a very holistic admissions process, but the flip side of that means that you need good ECs as well - a “hook” as its called. Getting admitted ED as an OOS female is very difficult; I’d estimate that the admissions rate for that category is down between 10 and 15 percent. A 3.8 weighted GPA seems very low if its using the same grading scale I’m familiar with. You have a good critical reading score, which is a strength on your application that your aspiration to major in English will augment. Definitely get the teacher recs and, assuming its the same GPA policy that I’m familiar with, possibly explain in the extra space why it may be so low (i.e. taking the difficult AP Math courses to challenge yourself even though you want to major in English, for example). As soccerguy said, finishing the semester strong will definitely help. But yes, as SkyDancer pointed out, the entire process can seem very messy and have odd results. Its important to aim for the moon, yet should you miss, be willing to settle for whichever star you land on.</p>

10

<p>I completely disagree with Here to Help. I got in (OOS male) with a 3.6 GPA on a 4.0 scale with a 30 ACT. I did have good everything else but I never took calculus which they reccommended.</p>

11

<p>OOS MALES have an easier time getting in than OOS FEMALES. OOS females are in the the most competitive group.</p>

12

<p>Skydancer-first Congrats on W&M! </p>

<p>Here to Help is correct, the OP has a weighted 3.8 GPA vs. your unweighted 3.6 GPA, there is a difference. </p>

<p>Enjoy W&M!</p>

13

<p>You did nothing wrong. Its just one of the toughest schools around for admission. Good luck in RD.</p>

14

<p>Hi youngartist, I’m sorry things didn’t work out as you hoped with ED. </p>

<p>Similarly to Skydancer017, I was accepted ED with a 3.61 unweighted GPA out of a 4.0, and my SAT scores were 610CR, 670M, 670W (I’m telling you this because I do not think your SATs were very problematic, if at all). Is the 3.8 GPA out of a 4.0 or 5.0? If its out of a 5.0, that may have hurt you. A teacher recommendation or two could really help if this is the issue; it could show how you are as a student in these advanced classes from a teacher’s perspective, in terms of work ethic, participation, etc. Sending in another essay for the optional supplement may have come off as “playing it safe.” Then again, what do I know?</p>

<p>Also, New Jersey has one of the highest (if not THE highest) exportation rates of students into out-of-state colleges. You probably faced very stiff competition because a school, limited already by state quotas, can only take so many New Jersey students. </p>

<p>This must be hard to do, but please try not to take the deferral personally. You still have time to lift your GPA and send extra materials! Good luck!</p>

15

<p>Youngartist, </p>

<p>Sorry to hear that you didn’t get in. I’ve been following CC ever snce my D decided in April 2009 that W&M was her first choice (She’s OOS and got in ED this past week). Anyway, here are my comments/observations:</p>

<ol>
<li>In an earlier thread, W&M admission said that about 50% of ED applicants are admitted. However, they also said that don’t break this down into IS vs OOS since there are relatively few OOS applicants.</li>
</ol>

<p>According to W&M Admission, overall, 27% of OOS state applicants are admitted, while 32% of IS are admitted.</p>

<p>See <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-william-mary/1039114-chance-me-please.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-william-mary/1039114-chance-me-please.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I don’t know what the admission rate for OOS girls is in either ED or RD. My guess is that it is around 15-20% for RD. I think that it’s a little higher for ED, but I’m not sure. I would be surprised if it were as low as the 10-15% estimate given by “Here<em>to</em>help” in this thread. It would be helpful if all schools would include information in the Common Data Set for each of the 8 combinations: (1) IS vs OOS, (2) M vs F, (3) ED (or EA) vs RD. No doubt they have the data.</p>

<ol>
<li>W&M Admission has said that the SAT middle range for ENROLLED OOS students is about 1380-1430 (CR + Math) while it is 1270-1430 for IS. I’m not sure what the corresponding OOS & IS scores are for ADMITTED students (assuming that “ENROLLED” is not the same as “ADMITTED”)</li>
</ol>

<p>See <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-william-mary/1032227-chances-please.htmlr[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-william-mary/1032227-chances-please.htmlr&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<ol>
<li>Here is an compilation of scores and other information taken from posters in the “It’s December 1st” thread (plus yours)</li>
</ol>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-william-mary/1041700-its-december-1st.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-william-mary/1041700-its-december-1st.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Brojuice OOS Male (NJ)/2110 – 1440/___ GPA/accepted
Svcarney OOS Male (??)/??? – 1340/3.7 GPA/deferred</p>

<p>Youngartist OOS Female(NJ)/2000 - 1340/3.8/deferred
Flautistbyday OOS Female(?)/2010 - xxxx/ 4.06 GPA/ deferred
Skydancer OOS Female(?)/1990 – 1310/ 3.63 GPA/accepted
Plaidskirtkid OOS Female (AK)/1950 – 1280/3.61 GPA/accepted</p>

<p>Dcgirl3 IS Female/2020 – 1320/4.4 GPA/accepted
Beccabee IS Female/2170 – 1410/4.2 GPA/accepted
Ashnape93 IS Female/2110 – 1390/4.4 GPA/accepted
Blissful93 IS Female/xxxx – 1420/4.2 GPA/accepted
Palacerules IS ???/30+ ACT & IB/4.2 GPA/accepted
Blissful93 IS Female/xxxx – 1420/4.2 GPA/accepted</p>

<p>Djyank IS Male/2220 - ???/3.9 GPA/accepted
Motocrosser IS Male/1920 – 1280/ 3.6 GPA/accepted</p>

<ol>
<li><p>WM’s “holistic” approach means that the school wants diversity on ALL levels. Since ED applicants are less ‘financial aid sensitive’, economic diversity is not what the admissions office is expecting in the ED round (I believe that WM only gives 80% of demonstrated financial need to OOS students anyway).</p></li>
<li><p>BUT…Geographic Diversity matters. I agree with “plaidskirtkid” that there is a surfeit of applicants from NJ (probably other eastern & mid-atlantic states too - esp. MD, PA, MA & NY). In contrast, there likely is a paucity of applicants from, say, Alaska (which may have helped “plaidskirtkid”). </p></li>
<li><p>If one doesn’t stand out in academics (SAT/ACT, grades & AP/IB), then one has to stand out in other ways.
(a) I saw in an earlier post that Skydancer went to an “audition-only art magnet school and submitted (her) portfolio”. My guess is that the corresponding department and Admissions give special consideration to those with such talents.
(b) Similarly, I saw in an earlier post that “plaidskirtkid” submitted “a blank children book and decorated it with wrapping paper and interesting/quirky facts about herself.” That’s sort of off-beat & creative, and I get the general feeling that Admissions likes such things.</p></li>
<li><p>I do not know how Admissions weights ECs and non-academic achievements such as your running, publications and other activities. My guess is that every applicant has something or other to say in this broad category and so one has to be truly outstanding to tip the balance in one’s favor.</p></li>
<li><p>I agree with “jshain” that leaving the “Additional Information” section blank was not a big factor. I think this is the section where one might put in information not suitable for any other section in the Common App. For example, this may be where an applicant might reveal adversity that he or she had faced, e.g., “switched between foster homes”, “cancer survivor”, etc. </p></li>
<li><p>While an optional letter of recommendation may have helped, I get the impression that the letter must have something truly extraordinay to say about you to make a difference.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>See the Admitit! blog entry on 19-Nov-2010:</p>

<p>[W&M</a> Blogs To The Letter](<a href=“http://blogs.wm.edu/2010/11/19/to-the-letter/]W&M”>http://blogs.wm.edu/2010/11/19/to-the-letter/)</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I don’t know much about the level of influence that a sports coach might have with Admissions at W&M. However, I agree with “soccerguy” that a frank assessment from the coach as to where you stand relative to other X-country applicants would be illuminating.</p></li>
<li><p>Overall, I’d say the biggest things working against you were (a) being from NJ; (b) SAT scores and grades being on the low end for OOS (c) nothing extraordinary enough in your ECs or application to sway Admissions.</p></li>
<li><p>Best wishes in the RD round.</p></li>
</ol>

16

<p>Wow, certainly a lot of back and forth on this thread.</p>

<p>For any student not admitted, it’s never one specific thing that would have made the difference. It’s not as if this one class or this one grade or this one section of the SAT was the factor that made or broke the decision. When strong students such as yourself aren’t admitted, it’s a reflection of the overall strength of the applicant pool and not any wrongdoing on your part.</p>

<p>Holistic review means numbers (GPA/SAT) are several factors of many taken into account during our review but they are far from the only factors. That is why some students with similar numbers got in while others with similar or even better numbers did not. Numbers alone never make or break a decision. Numbers in conjunction with additional information (essays, extracurricular activities, leadership potential, recommendations, and yes, even a “hook”) help us to arrive at a decision.</p>

<p>Remember, there isn’t an average GPA. GPA is very contextual by school. So at Runners2’s school, the average GPA of those we admit might be a 4.3 but at another school, it might be a 3.8. Clearly, Runners2’s school has GPAs above a 4.0. Some schools do not. That’s why we don’t have an average GPA because it may mean nothing given your particular school.</p>

<p>Any deferred student can send additional information to be considered regular decision (first-semester grades, new SATs/ACTs, new information, etc).</p>

<p>For more on not being admitted, check this out. It reinforces the notion that it wasn’t something you did wrong, it was simply a reflection of how many students out there do so much right. [W&M</a> Blogs It’s Not You, It’s Us](<a href=“http://blogs.wm.edu/2010/03/25/its-not-you-its-us/]W&M”>http://blogs.wm.edu/2010/03/25/its-not-you-its-us/)</p>

17

<p>Very valuable information here. Thank you for being candid and straightforward.</p>

18

<p>I understand the “overall strength of the applicant pool” is accurate, but it also appears to be standard verbiage to make those denied or deferred feel somewhat better about the bad news.</p>

<p>Reality is just beginning to set in after the denial email was received on Wed, particularly a hard pill to swallow after finding out 2 weeks prior that I was selected for a full tuition (OOS) ROTC scholarship…</p>

<p>Stats:
3.7 UW GPA; 6.2 weighted (9 AP classes)
730 CR, 670 M, 740 SAT II Lit, 690 SAT II US History
International school experience = 5 years and 2 languages other than English
Interview - thought it went very well, but could be wrong
ECs were decent, but probably my Achilles’ heel</p>

<p>The search for the right fit is on again, but pretty confident this was a loss on the part of W&M. Sour grapes? Perhaps. Good luck to all.</p>

19

<p>shockandawe… no sour grapes. Your resume clearly shows that you will contribute significantly wherever you end up. Best of luck.</p>

20

<p>shockandawe, we certainly understand your disappointment. We know that any student who names W&M as their top choice and then doesn’t get admitted will be disappointed, sad, angry, and probably a whole host of other emotions. I believe ROTC was simply letting you know that if you were admitted to W&M, you would receive a full scholarship from them. They were not conveying any admission decision to you, just what would follow if you were admitted.</p>

<p>While our response to any student deferred or denied may seem boiler plate, it’s the simple truth. To give context for our pool to those who don’t see it is tough but think about your school and then the absolute best students at it and the worst students at it; there’s clearly a range or spectrum. Now imagine if only those absolute best kids were at your school and they were competing for one single prize. How hard it would be to select the best of the best. That’s what our pool is like. It’s the best kids at every school competing for a small number of prizes and we have to try to determine the best of the best. We’ll admit that because of our small student body size and our selective admission process we miss out on some great students and that is our loss but our pool dictates that that’s how it unfortunately must be.</p>

<p>We know that you will be incredibly successful at another institute and we wish you all the best.</p>