Depression, Alcohol, Drugs, Failing, HELP!!!!!

Parent Cafe
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<p>Fauxmaven, part of our meeting on Wed. will be just that, US learning what we are doing that causes her to struggle and may cause her to fall.</p>

<p>Off the top of my head I can’t think of much except we provide. We gave her $$, car, Smart phone, and were always pretty fair when it came to punishments. Maybe I was too cool saying things like “I’m not naive to what goes on. I don’t want you to drink your mom and I don’t drink, but if you do drink remember always don’t get drink around strangers always have friends around, you’re underage if you get caught you’ll get brought to jail and I won’t be bailing you out, and please please call me or say you need a taxi before driving home. I would much rather do that than have something happen to you!!” her response would always be “Dad I don’t even like alcohol and later became I don’t drink much dad and if I do it’s a house party or something and I sober up before I come home that’s why I’m late sometimes”</p>

<p>Her mom and I don’t smoke, drink except for a glass of wine, have never come home drunk from datenight, don’t use drugs…etc etc…</p>

<p>We’ll see soon enough…I just hope I can stay even keeled and loving if the lies continue since we had another today.</p>

<p>First call from the Rehab from her today: “Hello Mr.XXXXXX this is XXXXX from XXXXXX facility I am XXXXXXXX therapist and she wanted to talk to you.”</p>

<p>“Okay great” so my daughter and I talked for 8 minutes and she seemed happy and sad “Looking forward to seeing you guys soon” so that was awesome.</p>

<p>The therapist got back on the phone and my daughter left her office and we talked a bit. She said “Mr.XXXXXX your daughter said you didn’t give her enough money to use the phone. That is really important for her since they have to call loved ones and friends from here. The cost is $1 per call for 10 minutes $5-10/wk would be fine that way she could talk to you guys daily if she wanted to. I let her use my phone which I do as a courtesy since she said she hadn’t talked to you guys since admission on Friday”</p>

<p>“hmmmmm…okay…well that’s not entirely true I gave her $25 on Friday evening. We figured it was enough for 15 phone calls and two packs of cigarettes until we see her on Wednesday…” </p>

<p>“Ohhh…I see so you did give her money she spent it then, I’m sorry I’ll talk to her about that”</p>

<p>The big issue with my daughter on every level is honesty, making good choices, and just being responsible. It’s not like she kept it all together and just partied from time to time I really think all she did was party the whole time especially after talking to her counselor at college today. We officially withdrew her today and I’ll be going up to get her things this weekend she will get W’s.</p>

<p>It still floors me that you keep her under lock and key she seems to be fine…the minute she get’s on her own it’s crazy land. We’ll see in the end still hopeful, but incidents like today really erk me though.</p>

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<p>She used her money for cigerettes and ran out of money for phone calls. Smokers in therapy or AA or any type of group session tend to smoke alot. She lied because she wasn’t going to tell them she used her money for cigerettes. I know that hurt you but this is only the tip of a big iceberg. Hang on the journey gets bumpy but there will be some smooth patches. My daughter was smoking two packs a day when we picked her up at school. She always smelled so clean and fresh before she left for college, and than I found myself opening the windows of my house because her clothes and body smelled of the awful smoke. It is a disgusting habit.</p>

<p>When you clean out her room you may find some things that you wished you never saw unless her roommate cleaned it out first. That was our first eye opener to how our daughter spent her semester. </p>

<p>Has your daughter talked to you about the rape? I just can’t imagine how hard that must be. You have so much going on right now and it sounds like you are trying to do the best for everyone. Take good care of yourself.</p>

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<p>Part of my son’s inpatient therapy was kicking all addictive substances - including tobacco and caffeine. I wonder if perhaps that is something you can explore with the therapist? We sent him off with packages of Nicorette, I think, to help him with that process. </p>

<p>I hope your family is doing well. I haven’t read all of this thread but having been through this fairly recently I can only emphasize the need to take care of yourself first. Make sure you have support for yourself because you will need it. Take care.</p>

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<p>The hospitals probably no longer allow it, but the opinion used to be that continuing to smoke while getting off other things was preferable, even healthier in the long run. At the very least, there could be some respect and empathy for the potency of cigarette addiction, which could account for the apparent misuse of funds and lying about it. Many say it is harder to quit smoking than to quit heroine. Perhaps they have a program to help with this at the hospital.</p>

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<p>I think they should ban smoking in rehabs but I think few places do. Also smoking is very much a part of the social aspect of rehab. H of a friend went into rehab as a non-smoker and left as a smoker. How about getting her a prepaid phone card.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, studies have shown (apologies I am a bit rusty on this) that there are overlaps between the nicotine receptor sites and the neurotransmitter receptor sites in the brain, particularly for addictive and primary psychiatric disorders (eg schizophrenia), and the nicotine has a calming effect. As others have said, nicotine withdrawl is difficult and unpleasant. If that is not the primary focus of their treatment, they may need, unfortunately, to continue smoking</p>

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<p>The short term inpatient rehab and now this long term patient rehab both allow smoking. As someone said above it is very much a “social” time for the patients. Regardless she spent her money on calls and cigs. she had two packs going in and while she said “I’ll call ya’ll” she chose not too and then lied about what we gave her, so her mom and I feels used/hurt again. I just can’t handle the lies it really erks me!</p>

<p>Still can’t stress how hard this is for me to grasp how can this be so serious and incapacitating after being on your own for a whopping 7 weeks? It’s…just very hard to comprehend. The rape I totally get and WILL bend over backwards to help her with that…it’s the countless lies and deciet that make it hard to forgive/love. Then to blame it ALL on “I’m depressed” is equally hard to grasp. </p>

<p>I have no idea how this will work when she is discharged and since we haven’t talked to her we’re in the dark on just about everything. Her therapist said her stay is approved week by week and she might get discharged next week? She won’t know until tom. it all depends on her weekly evaluations.</p>

<p>Bottom line today has been a hard day… one where I haven’t wanted to be loving/caring to her. The love/forgiveness have not been coming naturally and I hate that it’s more like a choice.</p>

<p>Time heals all wounds!! Maybe I need to buy some Neosporin or something :slight_smile: and speed that process up…(yes that was my attempt at humor…)</p>

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<p>Your D has alot of very very serious problems. It is going to take a very long time to address all of them, and it will likely get worse before it gets better. It will definitely not progress along a smooth unbroken upward line. You cannot expect to see a turnaround in this short amount of time. While it’s understandable that your focus is on how all of this is affecting you – it’s not all about you. In your posts, I sense that you are taking all of this very personally. Again, understandable, but not constructive either for you or for her. You are going to need to take the long view and not get upset and offended by every incident. If there is improvement, it is going to be very gradual, very slow, and very much a two-steps-forward-one-step-back sort of thing.</p>

<p>You’ve made several comments that indicate that you don’t think that depression is a legitimate mental health concern – you seem to believe that it’s a choice or an excuse. As someone who has suffered from clinical depression, let me assure you that it is very real. It is caused by abnormalities in the brain chemistry, and it is no more under the person’s control than a diabetic’s blood sugar is under their control. It can’t be fixed by positive self-talk, or by pulling oneself up by one’s bootstraps. It is a physically-based illness, and it affects EVERYTHING. If your daughter is telling you that she’s depressed, or one of her health professionals is telling you – please, I beg you, don’t brush it off. Depression can be fatal.</p>

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<p>ScaredDad… There are days that I would have gladly crawled under a rock just to have a few minutes of peace from my daughter. We are in our third year of hanging in there to do what we could to help our daughter. She has really hurt our family on so many levels but we are a tough bunch and she is not. We love her so much even though she is at times not easy to embrace. I still look at her and imagine that beautiful baby who grew into a beautiful young woman and wonder how did it all go this way.</p>

<p>Depression is so awful because a depressed person looks healthy from the outside…there are no missing limbs or bald heads from chemo yet their minds are a scramble of thoughts that are not realistic to those who live with them. I really hope you spend alot of time reading and learning about depression because it is very hard to not focus on the things you are focusing on if you don’t understand the disease. </p>

<p>We no longer make excuses for our daughter and we hold her accountable, but she is not at that vunerable life threatening time of her life anymore. Your daughter is in a treatment facility, and that is what we should have done going back, and that was a mistake but we did do many things right…I think. Our biggest mistake was letting every aspect of our daughters life consume us to the point that she was all that we talked about and thought about, but after a couple years we learned that we needed to seperate a bit and test out the waters of her therapy and medication. Back in the summer, everything escalated and at one point we had considered changing the locks and having her arrested. We did’nt but we will if there is another incident similar to this past summer. Your daughter is in critical condition right now if you think of it in terms of a medical condition. She is not rational and has experienced a terrible trauma. I am sure you have thought about the rape but I haven’t noticed you talking about your daughters trauma only her lies and how they are making you feel. Try and step out of yourself for a while (maybe a long while) and focus just on how you could get your daughter in a better place. This is not the type of thing that goes away like the flu. It may be a part of your daughters life until her meds and therapy are working and it may be the type of thing that she battles for a very long time. You just don’t know yet, so be prepared for anything, and be prepared to love her even when she is not so lovable. I hope you and your wife are in therapy because you will never understand that you can’t make your daughter better by just setting the rules or showing your displeasure with her behavior. You will however learn that her behavior is hers alone, and that she will need to own up to that, and all of the consequences that come with it.</p>

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<p>ScaredDad, is there a prior estrangement between your oldest daughter and her mother (your wife?). Your wife’s responses/actions are nearly absent in text of your posts, and she certainly seems excluded from your “special relationship” with your daughter. Post content seems to signify some persistent relationship problem with her mom.</p>

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<p>^^I thought the same thing early on. Scared Dad…how is your wife doing?</p>

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<p>Hi, I’m not one to normally throw in a suggestion of psychological disorder, but you may wish to consider Emotional Dysregulation Disorder, also called Emotional Unstable Disorder (I prefer these terms over the traditional Borderline Personality Disorder)----given the constant lying, inability to deal with negative emotions and reality, and manipulation, substance abuse, depression etc</p>

<p>You can google Borderline Personality Disorder.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately scared dad, I have a child who sounds very very much the same as yours. And I thought we were very very close. And within the last two years, I have begun to feel I don’t know that child at all, and that he/she didn’t actually learn one single important thing I taught over the years. And the lies, they almost seem to be second nature. The hurt I have felt over this child, who I thought was so close to me, is indescribable. The anger too is sometimes almost overwhelming. I would agree with katyy123, BPD sounds likely, as it is with my child according to the psychiatrists and therapists we’ve consulted over the last two years. Depression, possibly bi-polar, along with anxiety are also present, although those around this child would not suspect depression, since this child is very active, friendly, etc. when with friends. Like you, I am having a hard time getting past the lies and continuous self-destructive behavior, which seems like it must be a choice being made, not the result of some depressive disorder. It has been a very challenging time for our entire family these last couple of years, and there really isn’t an end in sight. I hope your daughter has a turn around in her rehab situation and BPD isn’t a reality for your family. But I would recommend you google it, and see what you think. When I read the criteria, my child almost jumped off the page at me, sadly.
Wishing you and your family all the best.</p>

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<p>Our family has also dealt with this situation (one that became a clear case of old-fashioned bipolar 1). I would just suggest (knowing this may not apply) that some of the lying may be part of an effort at gaining autonomy and setting boundaries with parents who value former “closeness.” Kids who have been close to their parents sometimes need to go overboard to break the connection-sometimes their own, sometimes their parents’, and sometimes both.
This is not to deny whatever pathology may be going on as well, but the same principle can apply across the spectrum. I find that the less I intrude or press for the truth, the more information and truth comes my way. It takes patience, I need to wait for it, but in allowing my kid that privacy and autonomy, she eventually feels secure enough to share what is really going on. So I would suggest trying to honor the daughter in some way, approach her positively and without intrusion on her “space”, and perhaps things could turn around. If this sounds naive to some, so be it, but it has worked in my family in a situation that is similarly severe. These kids are in a dilemma: they need parental allies, but they are also trying to separate.</p>

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<p>Pretty aggravated right now! Things were going well until this afternoon when we recieved a call from her therapist who said "Have you talked to XXXXXX? Do you know what has been going on the past 5-6 days? And then she said:</p>

<p>*It was doubtful that insurance would get approved beyond Wednesday of this week Friday at the latest because she was making little progress.</p>

<p>*She has been written up 4 times in the past 5 days for giving cigarettes to minors which they could press charges for, passing lighters, repeatedly being to close to one of two boys sneaking out to meet them, cursing out a therapist for not allowing some guy name “XXXXXX” to be added to her visitor list after the therapist said “You are here for treatment of your addiction not for the boys. I do not think it is healthy for you at this point”.</p>

<p>At least we know where the money went for phone calls now. Writing/doodling in lecture, not participating in group, and the writings were as the therapist put it “Not written by someone who is taking any of this seriously”.</p>

<p>Of course her side of the story is drastically different. “I didn’t do that” “That’s ********” etc etc just more slight of hand by the master magician.</p>

<p>So, because of her lack of progress it is very doubtful approval will last much longer. I’m pretty disappointed. If she can’t be focused there in 24/7 care with specialists what in the world will she do at home with 6-8hrs of dead time all alone everyday? With access to our home? I can only imagine the trouble she will be able to get into or hide while her mom and I are at work everyday!</p>

<p>I know it’s just emotions, but there is a part of me that says "You’re a spoiled selfish brat who is going backwards if anything! You want help better join the military or check yourself into a 90-120 day all womans rehab because I’m not dealing with the lies and lack of effort on your part. You had your chance you did not prove much in the way of ACTION like you said you were going too. Sorry, we love you, but you have shown us you can’t be trusted.</p>

<p>I hope I feel better tom. and we’ll be seeing her on Wed. Not a good day not a good day at all. Wife and I are on the same page the pendulem swings from left to right as there seems to be no clear answer on any of this.</p>

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<p>ScaredDad, I’m so sorry about this–it won’t make you feel any better to learn that this is pretty typical. You haven’t mentioned it, I don’t believe, but has your D gotten a diagnosis of a mental disorder other than addiction? It sure sounds to me like she is bipolar–the actions you describe are typical of the poor judgment shown in mania or hypomania. Is there any way you can fund a residential treatment program? You are correct that it is not a good idea to have her live at home. Sounds like she needs meds. </p>

<p>I have an idea. Contact your local NAMI, or your county/state mental health board. Try to find a board and care for people with mental illness. Your county social services will have referrals. It won’t be a nice place, but it will be safe, and they will feed her. In our area this costs around $700 to $850/mo for a shared room. It just might be creepy enough for her to realize that she’d better start following a treatment plan. You could drop her off there after picking her up from the rehab. PM me if you like.</p>

<p>It’s possible that you’ll need to stop financial support in order for your D to qualify for services. Best wishes to you and your family.</p>

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<p>3 evaluations done with a psychiatrist she was diagnosed with depression and put on Lexopro he didn’t feel like she was bipolar not saying he couldn’t be wrong.</p>

<p>She’s already in a Residential Inpatient setting that’s the problem if she is taking this all like it’s a big joke there with professionals what will she do when she gets home? </p>

<p>We’ll know more today…she plays the system to get what she wants it seems to me. Take things she likes/wants away and she’ll apologize, write I’m sorry letters, and plead “I won’t do that again” until then next time. She gravitates towards “party people” and the more I find out the more it seems like a choice. When she lived at home and was under a watchful eye it was blowing curfew once/twice a month drinking or smoking weed I’m sure. Once on her own with financial support from us, car, and freedom she chose to make that lifestyle a more frequent one and party all the time missing class then skipping class then not even going. I find it so hard to say “Oh she’s depressed that’s why”, it’s so hard to not see it as a choice. Given the option to work hard or party she’ll always pick party at least up to this point! Until she realizes she can’t hang out with people like her, she’s not strong enough to say no, I don’t know if there is much anyone can do.</p>

<p>Apply “tough love” taking away the car, limiting financial support, she spirals downward in self loathing “Oh you guys hate me, I hate myself, I hate my life” hangs out with trust fund partiers or the closest college party that happens almost daily.</p>

<p>Come to her aid and help she get’s happier, but instead of doing what she should be it’s almost like her attitude is. “Oh, my parents care and forgave me and it’s back to the same old same old”</p>

<p>It’s almost like a slap in the face…</p>

<p>The therapist said she wrote a long “sorrowful letter apologizing for her actions and that may have been her bottom” then the next day another violation and another lie to get close to some guy that she met 10 days ago when she was admitted.</p>

<p>We’ll see…patience is running out. I look at her now and wonder what happened to the girl I knew just 3 months ago? I feel like I’m dealing with a 15yr old not a 18yr old.</p>

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<p>I second the fact that your daughter’s behavior is common and “typical” of kids in this kind of situation, at this age. Frankly, I think that you, and perhaps your wife, are too judgmental and lack understanding, and that your pendulum swings indicate too much emotional reactivity on your part.</p>

<p>I still think the ideal is for you to give your daughter a home base (or a place that is mutually acceptable), safety, and try to rebuild your relationship with her, but in a different way than in the past, where her only choices are extreme closeness to you, or extreme alienation.</p>

<p>Your daughter probably is bipolar, yes, or, at the very least, there are emotional/mental health issues that need to be addressed. She is over 18, so you cannot force her to deal with these problems. With a better relationship, it might be possible to get her into care, but I am not sure how that is going to happen.</p>

<p>NAMI is an excellent idea. It also helps to read some books- honestly.</p>

<p>I warn you that it takes a lot of parental effort to find a good therapist/psychiatrist. The initial evaluation, ideally, should be a couple of hours long, not 45 minutes. Insurance will sometimes cover the better psychiatrists if you first demonstrate that you have tried something else. Using a hospital study program can result in free care that is excellent.</p>

<p>But your daughter has to be on board, and she is not, at the moment, on board. Again, that is very typical for a kid that age who is experiencing these problems. She is no doubt depressed, angry, and hopeless, not to mention traumatized by the rape.</p>

<p>I really don’t want to share personal details but we have a child who has had some similar issues, so I am not “talking through my hat” here, but from experience. Cut your daughter some slack. I honestly don’t get any vibes that you love her, at least not since she grew up and became an adolescent, let alone a troubled one. She needs love now, and love that is flexible and very nearly unconditional. </p>

<p>Get ready for a hard road, and find the affection and strength to stay on it with your daughter. Judgment is only going to make things worse.</p>

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<p>Lexapro is an antidepressant, that can cause hypomania in a bipolar patient. From the lack of judgment and the sexual acting out, it sounds like she is hypomanic. </p>

<p>We’ve been through something similar (actually considerably worse), and compmom, I think it’s hard to tell if the OP is venting here, hence sounding cold and unloving, or is he using appropriate tough love. It’s a fine line, not easily balanced, as you undoubtedly know from experience. </p>

<p>ScaredDad, in some ways, what your D is doing is a “choice”–not so much that she is choosing the bad behavior, but she is choosing not to help herself by participating in her treatment. That’s the tough part. Sadly, she (and your family) may need to suffer a good deal more before she gets some insight. Honestly, I think that more experimentation with different medications will be needed here. Good luck, and stay strong: firm and loving. The right meds and extensive therapy will help. She can recover. We’ve seen it–full recovery.</p>

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<p>I highly agree with compmom, as well as others who are giving good advise. Honestly I understand it’s some you don’t want to hear. I won’t elaborate, or repeat in my own words for the sake of brevity.
What I am failing to understand, and what you should be questioning, is why your daughter is in the position to give cigarettes to minors? How is she in contact with them in any way? Also, if there is an issue her avoiding her own recovery by focusing on relationships with boys (which are resulting in violations), why is she in these positions in the first place? It is very, very common behavior to replace on addiction, or at least form of self-medication with another. She no longer has access to alcohol to dull her pain. She is being asked to look at herself, which frankly isn’t an easy thing. She has found a way to avoid that by focusing on these relationships with boys that she is obviously getting some sort of positive feedback. The time she spends focusing on that, helps her avoid time focusing on the difficult task of focusing on herself. You speak of sending her to an all woman’s ‘halfway house’ like this is some sort of punishment. </p>

<p>Your attitude is a continuation of wanting to punish her ‘hurtful’ behavior. The pain she is causing you. The lies, deceit, the lack of patience. Seriously? You have a lack of patience for a girl you had a ‘good’ relationship with just three months ago? She is going through an addiction problem as well as depression. This is going to take a lot longer than a few weeks. Given the chance she will do the same thing you are doing…look for other forms of distraction to avoid the very hard work that is needed.</p>

<p>Your daughter is addicted to alcohol, is depressed, and has been raped. You are out of patience? You have continued to speak of your hurt, your frustration, etc. This isn’t about you. No, you don’t have to have her back in your home if she is not safe, but you have got to get a handle on your own emotions. Others have wisely given you the suggestion of seeking help through the NAMI. A session or two with a therapist isn’t going to yield a depth of understanding and change. Perhaps your daughter is playing you in ways…YOU are allowing her to do so. She is getting the reaction she wants which is your emotional reaction. If she doesn’t get it, the benefit isn’t there. If you ask parents who have gone through teens/young adults in crisis you can practice ‘tough love’ by removing benefits such as cars, etc, however telling them each and every day ‘I do not like or condone your behavior right now, but I love you. There is nothing you can do to change that.’ That continual message to a young person is vitally important.</p>

<p>Take this for what it’s worth. I’m not going to bring up the reasons I know this, but I don’t speak in the abstract. I strongly urge you to connect with a support group in person and online with parents and family members who have faced these situations. They will be able to share with you first hand how they managed their personal emotions. The benefit to a group is you generally have people in all stages. Some who are just starting like yourselves, some who are further in their child’s treatment, and some who have been at this much longer. There is wisdom to be shared in this. There are also much needed resources shared regarding Dr’s, treatment facilities, types of therapies that are helpful, as well as ins and outs of insurance.</p>

<p>I honestly wish you, your daughter, and your family the very best of luck.</p>