Depression and a Phone Call

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hi. I'm new here to CC, but did visit this site (think I had an account too) in 2006 to 2008 when I was in high school.</p>

<p>I've graduated from Northwestern as a chem major and a pre-med w/o any acceptances to any med schools AT ALL. Oh, and my GPA's about a 3.0. I thought my 34 MCAT would bring it up but no. Oh, and I'm currently 60k dollars in debt. So I'm spending more time at school next year to bring my GPA up and work more on my application. So, yeah, my life tanked. </p>

<p>Well, I'm posting here not to tell my own story but also the story of my high school's valedictorian and me back then.</p>

<p>In high school I was a smart kid and was also really competitive--as competitive as most of the kids found here on CC. For example, I retook my 35 ACT twice for a 36. And I was obsessed with prestige. I mean obsessed. I had to get into a top 20 school, preferably an ivy or a top 10 one. I applied to about 10 or so schools and I had no safeties. I was a dick back then thinking my state school U of Michigan was a safety. </p>

<p>I got into Northwestern and a couple "lower-ranked" top 20 schools. I bragged about it a lot. Kids thought I was cool and praised me. When adults asked me what school I would go to and I replied Northwestern, they were extremely impressed.</p>

<p>In college, I screwed around my first two years. Drugs, sex, alcohol, parties--all that. My GPA was messed up. I buckled down my next two years, but it was hard. Ended up with a 3.0 but it come out to nothing.</p>

<p>So I decided to call my high school's val...
In high school, he was the smart kid. Freakishly smart. Top scores, taking math at a college during his sophomore year, etc. But he was also laidback, really kind, and loved tutoring and helping others. He loved teaching others--called it "true education," as I remember. He also had a stuttering problem and was sort of timid/reticent. Couldn't tell you a thing about songs/singers like Coldplay or about Brett Favre but could expound volumes upon Linus Pauling, abstract philosophical and logic ideas, and how the Legend of Zelda timeline worked. He was also a year younger then everyone else too.</p>

<p>In short, our local genius. Our class thought he was destined for Harvard or its equivalent schools. </p>

<p>I don't know and will never know all the schools to which he applied, but he chose...
Michigan State (over Michigan honors with some scholarship and I think Cornell and Northwestern too).</p>

<p>With MSU, he had a full ride, honors, research, and ended up actually being paid to go to college. Though in retrospect we shouldn't have, but many of the smarter kids in our HS, including myself, laughed and laughed. Here was this smart kid going to a second-rate school.</p>

<p>So I called him to find out his plans. FML. He was surprised when I called and I could tell he didn't want to divulge info or talk to much about himself (I wish he was the bragging type--would make me feel much better).</p>

<p>At MSU he kicked a**. 4 point GPA. 42 MCAT. Won't reveal too much else about him, but here goes: Research--very high quality, pubs in famous magazines; math and chem. Math major in two years and then a masters in Mathematics. Lots of math stuff like going to Germany and research publications. Took Arabic in college to become fluent. Studied abroad. Became a very good archer (his passion in high school). Amgen scholars and other summer programs. Undergrad TAing and tutoring. I think he did Teach for America or maybe not (maybe he just said he was contemplating it or something). So on and so forth. </p>

<p>I love my experience at NU, but I mean he’s done well. Really well. Same genius as in high school. Still the same nice kid who didn’t like to talk about himself and genuinely cared for others. Never broke down under pre-med competition, remained laid-back, and graduated top of his class with other 4.0ers at MSU. And he said that what he did was “nothing special” and he began to ask me questions about how I was doing. I quickly turned the tables onto his future plans.
And the arrow in my heart: he’s accepted to a med school. Not just any med school though—U of Michigan. And on a full ride. And there’s more—he was accepted to Harvard med, Stanford, Johns Hopkins, WashU half ride, and U Chicago full ride. He chose UMich for reasons of “fit” and cost (plus he's not looking into academic med)
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It took a great deal of prodding to get that out of him but I mean seriously. Most pre-meds don’t get into a school and the lucky ones get into one or two. He got into a boatload and all top ones. Even though he deserved it I guess and I acknowledge that he’s smarter than I am, I feel cheated. </p>

<p>Not only that but his summer so far has been much better than mine. He’s relaxing before med school, got married to a girl from his home country and traveled there, went on a pilgrimage to Mecca, and went to Dubai for like a honeymoon. Looking for property in Ann Arbor too.</p>

<p>And finally he expressed his wishes for an acceptance in the future and explained to me that my MCAT was very good and that it shouldn't be retaken. He gave me tips and advice for applying my next cycle even though I was a dick to him in high school and was obviously a pest right now asking him so many questions (the phone call was over a couple days if you were wondering). </p>

<p>I just feel so depressed though.</p>

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<p>Med school admissions are exceedingly competitive even for those with great GPAs and MCAT scores. Knew two folks…one from UC Berkeley with a 3.75 in Biochem and another friend with a 3.85 from Suny Buffalo…both with MCATs in the high 30s/low 40s who faced the exact same situation you’re facing atm. </p>

<p>One needed 4 years of reapplication attempts before getting admitted to BU Med and the other needed 5 before getting admitted with scholarship to UChicago and a full-ride to Downstate. </p>

<p>I’d first reassess to see if med school/MD career is the right one for you. </p>

<p>If it is, talk with your pre-med advisor or other Profs familiar with med school admissions to see if there are ways you can bolster your future applications. </p>

<p>If not, talk with your college’s career guidance office, parents, previous employers, Profs, etc to see what other paths you can pursue. </p>

<p>Moreover, stop trying to compare/compete with the val or anyone else from HS…that’s completely irrelevant to your situation today.</p>

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<p>I think you have taken the first step into figuring things out and fixing the problems. I know of many people who do not get into med school on the first go round. You may not get in right away but that doesnt mean you wont. Everyone grows in their own way and time. We all have things we wish we could have done differently or been nicer. We learn through living. Best wishes for your future.</p>

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<p>Camel… you didn’t mention this, but did you participate in any research while at school? What kind of work have you done outside of school that’s related, like during the summers? Also, how did you do with just your pre-med courses? That’s one aspect they look at as part of the admission process.</p>

<p>I know it’s scary to have graduated and you don’t have school this September. (wait… NU’s graduation isn’t until June 15th, so I am assuming you WILL be graduating this year) Just make your next choices clear towards medicine, like doing some kind of research or working in a lab, if science/medicine is indeed what you want. Then prepare for next year’s round.</p>

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<p>Many med schools want students who have not only done research but who have a bit more maturity. Spend time in research and get more life experience which will bring maturity. It’s not too late and life is just beginning for you. It’s important to find happiness and fullfillment in your daily work- don’t wait for the big events (such as med school acceptance).</p>

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<p>Waiting for the usual suspects to chime in with the usual comments about not having to go to a prestige school.</p>

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<p>OK, I’ll say it again–not to the OP, but for those who haven’t chosen their colleges yet. If you’re pre-med, the best college for you may not be the highest ranked one you can get into. The best college for you is where you can get the highest GPA.
Your dream of going to a prestigious and challenging college may conflict with your dream of becoming a doctor. If you can only choose one, which dream is more important to you?</p>

<p>OP–Can you work on your interviewing skills? Have you done volunteer work? You may be smart and have excellent scores, but interviewers are looking for compassion, caring, people skills–folks who want to enter the profession for the right reasons. If this doesn’t come across in your interview, it could be a strike against you
It’s natural for you to envy your friend right now, but you have to walk your own path. You’re paying for the partying you did freshman/sophomore year. You still have a lot going for you, and you have a plan to bring up your GPA. That’s good. Best of luck in the next round.</p>

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<p>Look, your problem isn’t that you went to a “hard” school and your val went to an “easy” school. It is that you screwed around for two years and he took advantage of everything his school had to offer him. Actions have consequences and sometimes you can’t undo the consequences…that is just life. </p>

<p>It’s time to reassess your plans and move on. It’s entirely possible that without extenuating circumstances your GPA will preclude you from getting into med school. I don’t know. Your research or your advisors should be able give you a better idea if that is the case. If so, then make a Plan B and move on with your life.</p>

<p>I knew someone in your shoes when I was in college. Couldn’t overcome two years of mediocre grades to get into med school. He ended up working in a lab. After 5 years working, he went to grad school (work experience and time made the GPA less important, although it still made a difference with some grad programs), did fabulously in grad school, got his Ph.D and has had a very lucrative and satisfying career in the biotech industry.</p>

<p>He admits that if he had worked as hard in undergrad as he did in grad school, he’d be a doctor today. But, well, he didn’t…and it’s too bad, because he would have made a great doctor. </p>

<p>You have no reason to feel “cheated.” I would have hoped that you would have felt “humbled.” But you live with the consequences of your actions and move on. Grieve for a while, reassess and come up with a plan. No use wallowing forever in what might have been. I think your hs val sounds like a really nice guy. Be happy for him and his success and redouble your efforts to find your own path.</p>

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<p>How much debt will you be in after your next year in school?</p>

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<p>I agree with ellemenope. Your problem is that you didn’t make the most of your college experience, not that you chose the wrong school. Anyways, thanks for sharing your story. I want to avoid what you went through and make the right decisions instead. At least I won’t be in debt when I graduate…</p>

<p>PS My friend said Northwestern’s partying scene was lame. Take that for whatever it’s worth.</p>

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<p>Dude, chill. Out. Your life isn’t over by any means, and you didn’t “tank college.” You graduated from a great university with a 3.0 GPA, and you’re raising it now. You spent your first two years of college partying and came out of that more focused–while that won’t help you get into med school, it’s important you had the experience in college and got over it, and now you know how to balance your work and your social life. You’re young, educated, and able-bodied. History has been made by people who got a far worse start in life.</p>

<p>There are a thousand different paths you could take from here–you could get a job now, a master’s in a couple of years, then eventually attend med school, or you could become a nurse, or a politician, or an airline pilot, or a veterinarian, or a writer. Life’s like that; you never know where it will ultimately take you. There is *always *a way to make your dreams come true, and there’s always the possibility that an opportunity you’ve never even thought of is waiting just around the corner.</p>

<p>Stop dwelling on things you can’t change, and stop comparing yourself to your high school’s valedictorian. Whining about how jealous you are of some kid you knew five years ago won’t do jack. Ask yourself what you really want out of life *at this point in time<a href=“because%20these%20things%20change”>/I</a>, come up with a plan to make it happen, and start being productive.</p>

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<p>I never knew med schools offered free rides. The kid has played his cards very well to get his entire education paid for.</p>

<p>I agree with the others-the thing that stands out here is not which schools you two attended, but the fact that intelligence + hard work+ taking advantage of all your school has to offer = nice payoff.</p>

<p>You can have a great life without being a doctor, if you choose to go that route. All is not lost.</p>

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<p>A very articulate post, OP. Also, Michigan State isn’t second-rate. A 3.0 from Northwestern doesn’t suck in any way. I would think med schools would look for perseverance and error correction in their applicants and re-applicants, assuming the basic intellect and judgment are there.</p>

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<p>One of my nieces got at least one free ride to med school (state school) but will be attending a full-fare Ivy instead, courtesy of dad working two jobs.</p>

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<p>First, MSU isn’t a second rate university. It out-ranks many state flagships. </p>

<p>Second, you really shouldn’t be posting so many personal details about someone else, especially someone you’re not especially close to and someone who obviously values privacy. </p>

<p>Third, quit comparing yourself to him. You can’t change the past and thinking about could of or should of will drive you crazy.</p>

<p>Fourth, your life hasn’t tanked. You just need to not compare yourself to someone like that.</p>

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<p>And if you’ve graduated already, why are you going back just to raise your gpa? That doesn’t make any sense to me. You need to worry about paying off your loans rather than accumulating new debt.</p>

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<p>First off, I’m not saying to anyone that you should take the merit scholarship at a safety school over a prestigious one if you’re a pre-med or that you’ll turn out better than the prestigious one. This was just a rant I made last night to vent of some of my steam. Sorry I guess.</p>

<p>I realize that I shouldn’t be whining about a 3.0 and that many kids would be happy with it but it doesn’t show my true potential–but I see that I deserve it.</p>

<p>@MomfromKC,
A lot of the info is already on the internet and I changed some of what he said as well so that it would be similar but not recognizable to him.</p>

<p>I’m still at Northwestern and I’m doing better now than before with mainly As, but I’m graduating soon.</p>

<p>Ghostt,
Thanks for that. I need a reality check I guess and should stop living in the past. I just sort of thought that going to a better school than he went to would thus give me a better life. NU provided me a lot of opportunities that even my val might have not had but I wasted those by being a fool. If only I
**
To any pre-meds or college students in general, don’t waste your time in college partying. Find a balance between social life and academics or you will regret it.**</p>

<p>Nrdsb4,
Yeah, I know. Back in high school, we used to think it was dumb of him to follow the money when it came to college, but we were wrong. He has the Dean’s Merit Scholarship at UMich. I read online that only ten students receive it a year.</p>

<p>I didn’t start research, volunteering, and other typical pre-med activities until the summer after my sophomore year. I know now that this was a major Achilles heel for me.</p>

<p>ellemenope,
My parents are willing to pay off some of my debt now because I’ve shown much more determination in my studies. They stopped paying my tuition in my sophomore year because they said I was wasting my time with drugs, sex, and alcohol instead of using my time to study and learn. I should of listened to them sophomore year. </p>

<p>They’re also pushing me to going into </p>

<p>I thought that I didn’t need their financial help–I could pay for it myself as a doctor, right? Some of the specialties can make near half a million a year, right? And who cares about med school costs? I’ll pay those off later. Man, what the hell was I thinking?</p>

<p>The story about your friend sounds promising and hopeful. I guess there’s still other options for me. </p>

<p>I do feel humbled now. I shouldn’t have been so arrogant about the fact that I was going to a “name” school and he wasn’t. Karma bit me back badly.</p>

<p>chaosakita,
You’re going to a great school. Don’t make the same mistakes as me. I don’t want anyone to feel what I’m going through now.</p>

<p>romani,
I see that MSU isn’t second rate. It might be ranked lower and not as prestigious, but it’s definitely not second rate seeing all that he accomplished. It’s just what I wrongly thought before. Also, I’m not going back to NU because of costs. I’ll be doing a post-baccalaureate program elsewhere.</p>

<p>Here’s my plan:</p>

<p>This summer I’m going to work in a research lab, volunteer, and shadow a lot. Then I’m going to take more courses in a program to raise my GPA and to actually learn something. I’ll also do research and volunteer while (not sure if shadowing would be that helpful). I’ll also talk to my pre-med adviser about the med schools I apply to–my list during my first cycle was unrealistic and filled with top prestigious med schools (once again–why did I do that?). I’ll focus on schools more on my range now.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone.</p>

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<p>Wow, that was a fast fix - good job CC parents!</p>

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<p>OP, let me tell you a story . . .</p>

<p>a friend went to a second, maybe even third tier undergraduate school. Did ok but not fabulously well there and wanted to go to med school. Didn’t get in.</p>

<p>Worked in a lab for a couple of years and then went and got a Master’s degree at a good but not great school. Applied to med school. Didn’t get in anywhere.</p>

<p>Continued doing research. Applied again. Got rejected everywhere except one school. (One of his rejection letters literally said “Good luck in another profession”!!)</p>

<p>Went to the med school where he was accepted. Worked very hard. Did well. Very well. Did his residency at Harvard. A fellowship at Johns Hopkins. Is a very well-known and respected surgeon.</p>

<p>The moral of my friend’s story is not to give up. You may have to do some (or much) “remedial” work - academics, lab work, etc. - and reapply one or more times, but IF you REALLY want to be a doctor, all is not lost. </p>

<p>The best advice my mother ever gave me was “it’s not what happens to you in life, it’s what you do in response that makes a difference.” She was right. You’ve already worked to turn things around from your first 2 years in undergraduate school. It seems as though you’re also working to change your attitude. Keep going!!</p>

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<p>Unless I’m mistaken, Med schools mainly weigh GPA, MCAT, and relevant research/job/ECs in deciding admissions. </p>

<p>If the last isn’t applicable to job/Masters…I’m not sure they’d help balance out an extremely low undergrad GPA by med school application standards…even if OP somehow gets into a topflight school for the Masters. </p>

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<p>Ask your adviser/Profs who know Med school admissions to see if taking more courses after your bachelors will count in boosting your undergrad GPA. </p>

<p>If med school is anything like law school admissions, they will only count the courses completed before you received your bachelors in calculating your undergrad GPA. </p>

<p>Any courses taken afterwards won’t be factored in as it was taken after undergrad. </p>

<p>Moreover, if you retook undergrad courses where you received a low/failing grade and Med school admissions is like law school admissions…they will factor the low/failing grade and the newer grade into their GPA calculations.</p>