<p>OM, as the person who gave you the first <em>tweak</em> about your enthusiasm for TJ, I'd just like to reiterate that I think TJ is a phenomenal school, and there's not a thing wrong with your enthusiasm. Reading back, my initial comment "reads" somewhat harsh -- it truly wasn't intended to "sound" that way. The smiley's are great, but somebody really needs to figure out a better way of conveying the tone of written messages -- they'd make a fortune!</p>
<p>Anybody who posts here often will eventually be on either the giving or receiving end of a misinterpreted or misunderstond message, iderochi. Been there and done that myself. :) Effective in-person communicaton is so much easier. </p>
<p>I truly enjoy reading about student accomplishments. It is nice to share in the joy of others!</p>
<p>Thanks Byerly, I try to not get involve in sticking up for Andover fights because you just can't win. Of course Andover is diverse. Over a third are srtudents of color. About 40% receive fin aid. Another significant portion truly sacrifice to send their kids. Many, many expats have tuition paid by companies and dimplomat kids paid by governments. </p>
<p>Everyone pictures George Bush and John Kerry went to the far more elite St. Paul's School!!!!).</p>
<p>2331clk-Andover and other Prep schools offer so much financial aid and concentrate so much on diversity that I wouldnt be surprised if Andover was more ethnically and socioeconomically diverse than TJ. It is a fact that Andover is much more diverse in all areas than most suburban high schools.</p>
<p>Moreover, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and all of the other ivies offer considerable financial aid and need blind admissions, so as to make money no object when making the decision where to go.</p>
<p>Therefore your argument that Andover does better because the students are richer doesnt necessarily hold.</p>
<p>TJHSST is a great school, and has many wonderful kids. We know quite a few who have gone there, and are currently attending. That being said, there has been much discussion in the community about its lack of diversity (although there are a number of Asian students, VERY few African American or Hispanic students) and the fact that there needs to be a better program to reach out to the schools in Fairfax County to help those students prepare for the entry exam they give to 8th graders. Some of the middle schools that feed the most students into TJ are very careful to prep the gifted and talented (GT) students and have talked about TJ for years to those students. Many parents try to "game" admissions there, (they have had a plan to get their kids in since elementary school!) and it is a "brain drain" on the other very good high schools in Fairfax County. Some students don't want to even take the test for TJ in 8th grade because they don't want to go to a school that seems "geeky", and some of the African American and Hispanic students don't want to take the test because they know it is heavily populated with white and Asian students. The fact that it is a Governor's School means that it is required to take students from surrounding counties. Some of those counties specifically limit the number of students that they allow to go to TJ because they have to pay money to Fairfax County for the students to be there, and because it is a "brain drain" from their own public schools. Because No. Virginia is a fairly wealthy area with many professional and/or college-educated parents, there can be a lot of angst about this school.</p>
<p>Our S got in, but after much thought, research, visits to various schools, and discussion, we all decided on a different school--and have never had a moment's regret. Free would have been nice, but our S got an outstanding education, plus much greater exposure to racial, socio-economic and academic diversity--among many other things at his amazing school, from which he has just graduated. There were at least 4 other students in his class who had gotten in TJ and made the same choice. We didn't even think twice about where our younger son was going to go. They are both incredible students and are absolutely happy, as are we. </p>
<p>I'm all for TJ for some kids, but I question how it has affected the mind-set of parents, its effect on other schools in Fairfax County and the lack of diversity. Many parents are fighting the increase in the student population that they have gone to in order to have more diversity--they complain that it will "dilute" the high achievement numbers of the school. But if HYPSM have "diluted" their numbers to increase diversity, then I vote for my tax dollars in Fairfax County to do the same for some of the kids who would benefit from TJ but have been excluded from attending.</p>
<p>
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Moreover, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and all of the other ivies offer considerable financial aid and need blind admissions, so as to make money no object when making the decision where to go.
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<p>Unless the average HYPSM aid package is close to 30k (the difference between Harvard and normal in-state tuition) then this is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. </p>
<p>Plus there's the fact that most schools, when calculating aid packages, also take into account ability to borrow in addition to paying out of pocket. Many families then opt for state schools (or schools with better aid packages/scholarships) rather than going into debt through home equity loans and the like. So maybe money wasn't an object for you, but for many college-bound students, it's a serious consideration.</p>
<p>Just to pick an example, Princeton's average aid package is $25,000 of which all about a couple thousand is grants or scholarships.</p>
<p>That is pretty typical of the top couple dozen private colleges and universities. For many lower income students, the very expensive private schools are cheaper to attend then even in-state tuition at their own state university.</p>
<p>This would, of course, not be true of a wealthier family that qualifies for little or no need-based aid.</p>
<p>Princeton is known for being very generous though. I think that number would be a bit lower for the others. Not 100% positive though.</p>
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This would, of course, not be true of a wealthier family that qualifies for little or no need-based aid.
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<p>Which, tying this back to the OT, is the issue with the majority of TJ students. Too rich to qualify for a nice need-based aid package, not rich enough to scoff at the debt they'd rack up at elite schools. Awkward place to be. :( I know my aid packages were all pretty pathetic...that is to say, literally non-existant. </p>
<p>When the cheaper state schools happen to also be some of the best in the country, the allure can be hard to resist. If you're comparing Harvard to the average state school, then yeah, most people would probably opt for Harvard, despite the cost. But Harvard v. UVA? That's a very different issue.</p>
<p>Anyway, that's it for me being on the parents forum. I just had to comment on what I still see as a silly statement to make (money being "no object" in deciding where to go to college). :)</p>
<p>I go to TJ. I disagree w/affirmative action at TJ. You are just setting those kids up for failure. They cannot survive in the rigorous academic setting and there is not enough time to catch up the ground they are missing to be competitive at TJ. </p>
<p>Anyways on the topic of getting into college, most of the kids who do not go to IVYs(or equivalent) end up in an honors program at that school.</p>
<p>Furthermore the school is much more than putting 412 kids together and then bragging about the school. The school atmosphere is unmatched and there is a lot of collabartion. TJ students excel in various fields: academic, sports, debate, etc etc. and everyone fits in some way or the other. There are a lot of classes that are unique to the school(neurobio, DNA, supercomputing, AI, etc. are some of the post-AP classes offered) and endless opportunties. There is in-school competition for some of the top schools as many of the kids are qualified but have to fight with each other for spots. Most students come back saying that the TJ academic experience was unmatched at their college and say they have a much easier time in college because the skills they learned at TJ. A majority of them are in top 10-20% at their colleges including the IVYS etc.</p>
<p>
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I go to TJ. I disagree w/affirmative action at TJ. You are just setting those kids up for failure. They cannot survive in the rigorous academic setting and there is not enough time to catch up the ground they are missing to be competitive at TJ.
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</p>
<p>I don't like AA at TJ but you're taking things to an extreme. If you make the top 800 you are qualified to be at TJ. It's like college admissions - there are more qualified students then there are seats. As long as the first cut continues to be based on objective measures, then no one admitted to TJ will be "set up for failure." </p>
<p>For the record, my problems with AA derive from issues of fairness, i.e. taking seats from someone more qualified.</p>
<p>One of my good friends is considering sending her son to TJ and I am curious about the culture. My son (and, I would guess, his close friends) would never dream of posting their SAT scores, even on a forum meant only for classmates. What is the point of this?</p>
<p>Curious (only to me) fact:
There is a (now really old) math teacher there who, 35 years ago, taught me math in the Bronx.</p>
<p>One of DH's old MIT math profs turned up at a nearby Quaker retirement center, which has a close affiliation with our sons' Quaker school.</p>
<p>Not a lot went to Harvard/Yale, but a lot got in. I believe it was over 20 all told for Princeton.</p>
<p>Here's some more stats, I believe previously posted but interesting in this itteration as well:</p>
<p>SeaLocust,</p>
<p>Thanks for the link - really interesting. Are the GPAs weighted or unweighted?</p>
<p>Data from non-magnet good public school near Chicago</p>
<p>Sorry, SeaLocust - never mind. I see they're weighted.</p>
<p>Truth be told, some of us can't possibly imagine getting into Princeton or Dartmouth and not going. What on earth are they thinking?????????????</p>
<p>The grades aren't weighted that much. Each AP only gives you about a .5 bump.</p>
<p>And honors classes (with the exception of post-APs) are not weighted at all, since "honors" is the lowest level available at TJ. Not to mention Fairfax County doesn't have what you'd call an easy grading scale (A = 94+). </p>
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One of my good friends is considering sending her son to TJ and I am curious about the culture.
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</p>
<p>I think TJ's culture is one of its best points. Yes there will be elitists and super-competitive people, but honestly, you'll find that anywhere. TJ has one of the most open-minded, accepting student bodies. People that would normally be outcasts can find friends and there is much less bullying than at a normal high school (I have personally never witnessed or heard of any). It's also a very trusting environment. People leave backpacks lying around and lockers unlocked, knowing that no one will steal anything. The only danger lies in leaving food or calculators lying around. ;)</p>
<p>We're also a very spirited school. There's always high attendance at football games, even when our team is not so good (most years, lol). And though kids at other schools love to make fun of us, we actually do more of that ourselves. Everyone has a good sense of humor about what it means to be a "TJ kid."</p>
<p>
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Truth be told, some of us can't possibly imagine getting into Princeton or Dartmouth and not going. What on earth are they thinking?????????????
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</p>
<p>I'm a senior at TJ this year so I can explain better than I'll ever be able to. :) Some of those are cross-admits. E.g. quite a few got into Dartmouth and Duke, and chose Duke (and vice versa). This also accounts for the low Harvard and Yale numbers this year. More people chose to go elsewhere. In fact it looks like the only people going to those two schools are the ones that got in early. </p>
<p>Others have to do with money. The aid package wasn't what they were hoping for, so they opted for UVA. Seriously, it's not like they've ruined their lives. I'm sure you've heard of the Princeton study that shows that it's not the school that correlates with success, but the ability/drive of the individual (people that were accepted to top schools but went elsewhere earned just as much money).</p>