Destinations for TJHSST Class of 2005

Parents Forum
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<p>1moremom: please don't worry about that site. your son will love tj. i talk with tj alum that visit the school every year and they always tell me that their 4 years at tj shaped who they were and give tj a lot of credit for their success. although some ppl crack jokes about tj students, i find them to be very normal. they do not give up their social life etc. to be there and a majority of them are what u consider normal students who enjoy hanging out. its just that no one makes fun of you for taking hard classes, getting good sat score(no such thing at tj), etc. </p>

<p>If you want more info: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_High_School_for_Science_and_Technology%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_High_School_for_Science_and_Technology&lt;/a>
or
<a href="http://www.tjhsst.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.tjhsst.edu&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>'TJHSST has fielded more National Merit Semifinalists than any other high school in America for most of the 1990s and 2000s; this is, however, partly due to the relatively low National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test (NMSQT) cutoff in Virginia. From 2000 to 2005, it fielded more USAMO qualifiers than any other high school in America.</p>

<p>TJHSST was recently ranked as the top public high school in the nation by PrepReview (<a href="http://www.prepreview.com/english/us/rank/us_highschool.htm)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.prepreview.com/english/us/rank/us_highschool.htm)&lt;/a>. TJHSST also has the highest average SAT score among American high schools. Each year, over a quarter of its graduating class accepts admission to the University of Virginia. Other popular destinations among graduates include the College of William and Mary, Virginia Tech, Duke University, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Princeton University, Carnegie Mellon University, Harvard University, Yale University, and Stanford University.</p>

<p>For schools with more than 1,000 students, TJHSST was cited as having the highest-performing AP Biology, AP Calculus BC, AP Chemistry, AP English Language & Comprehension, AP French Language, AP Government & Politics: U.S., AP Psychology, and AP U.S. History courses among all schools nationwide in its size range. No other school had a greater proportion of its student body succeed in these subjects.'</p>

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<p>With all that going for them (unique courses, great variety of courses in the sciences and math, and numerous AP offerings), you can certainly see why the highly motivated handpicked students do so well. Again, congratulations to an outstanding class of students on some outstanding acceptances.And congratulations to the NoVa community for supporting this experiment in sufficient school funding. I wish we all could say our communities took education as seriously.It's obviously and justifiedly a point of pride.</p>

<p>I must point out though that kids without all (or any) of those advantages who score equivalently to the SAT results posted for TJ kids have plenty to be proud of ,too. Their achievements are at least as amazing, wouldn't you TJ folks say? Especially those from schools where the average SAT is closer to the national average, and one AP science, and one calculus course are the only ones offered, and the science lab is a hotplate, 3 beakers , and a potato with toothpicks resting in a jar. One has to wonder how well those students would have done if their communities had TJ type resources available.</p>

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<p>Resources are an interesting thing.</p>

<p>Here's an example I can think of off the top of my head: I knew some kids doing an experiment for their senior research lab involving generating electric current from the metabolic activity of microbes.</p>

<p>The initial plan was to use part of a huge grant to buy a specific strain of microbe and find the optimal growing conditions. When the bacteria was back ordered, the group threw some pond water into a beaker, and after a couple of clever manipulations achieved results better than expected with the custom bacteria.</p>

<p>Obviously opportunity is opportunity - but sometimes the most profound and enriching experiences come from simple means - even when surrounded by super computers and donated lab equipment.</p>

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<p>In all honesty, Curmudgeon, we know. TJ, Stuy, Bx Science and all the great magnets make up a huge part of the middle class and lower middle class at top schools. While other kids have a shot, they are the kids of parents such as yourself who learn the ropes. How rare are you at your children's school. Very, I would think. </p>

<p>So top schools will get their diversity at the TJs and from parents like you and those here, but communities that don't do what this one does will keep failing most exceptional kids.</p>

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<p>"Contrary to the assumptions of the prior poster, there are more blacks, proportionately, at Andover than there are at TJ, despite the much higher black population in northern VA. </p>

<p>"More blacks" is not the same as "more diverse"</p>

<p>The black kid who is the child of a doctor and lawyer does not bring diversity to the school. This goes for colleges too.</p>

<p>"A substantial fraction of the student body at Andover receives financial aid"</p>

<p>How many of them wouldn't be paying for lunch b/c they couldn't afford it if they went to public school? Financial aid for a $30,000+ tuition is not the same as not being able to pay for school lunch.</p>

<p>You would be hard pressed to convince me that Andover is diverse (I also said that TJ is not very diverse). And you will never convince me, unless there are drastic changes, that <em>any</em> top college is diverse. Harvard taking 5 poor kids doesn't make it diverse. The overwhelming feeling I had after the first week at college, was "wow, this place is full of white people." Seriously.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The overwhelming feeling I had after the first week at college, was "wow, this place is full of white people."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, the fact that W&M is full of white people (82% to be exact) may have something to do with that feeling!</p>

<p>You would get a different feeling at a school that was 60% to 65% white like a few of the elite private schools on the East Coast.</p>

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<p>There is a downside to magnet schools, Curmudgeon, especially in areas with less school funding, and much lower expectations than NoVa. There are some other excellent high schools in NoVa, and in the Maryland DC suburbs, outside the rareified air of TJ.
In our community, where education is definitely not valued, magnet schools have improved the education of the brightest kids in public school, at least those with parents that care enough to get them into the magnets. But, it has drained so much of the life out of the other OK high schools, that it has really hurt the education of kids just under "the brightest", the kids whose parents don't care enough or just can't manage to get them into the magnet, and kids who really want to play sports at a particular school.
My husband's high school has between 1600 and 1800 students, and he is hard pressed some years to offer a physics class, or honors chemistry, because enough of the cream is skimmed off by the county wide IB program and the magnet schools. he would argue that more funds need to spent an all students.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
And congratulations to the NoVa community for supporting this experiment in sufficient school funding.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While TJ certainly has it better than most, I wouldn't say even it gets "sufficient" school funding. It suffers from financial woes just like any other public school. Our building is falling apart. The arts and humanities are extremely underfunded. We don't even have the technology to do live video morning announcements, something that my elementary school had. Kinda sad when it's the science/tech magnet for Northern VA. :)</p>

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<p>Soccerguy, please feel free to visit Andover to see for yourself just just diverse it is. I'll give you a tour. As an upper middle class black at Andover, I am truly the exceptional minority. Andover and other preps have a HUGE committment to organizations like Prep for Prep, which takes inner city youth at young ages and prepare them for rigorous high schools. The adcoms visit poor African nations and places such as Jamaica to find their top students. They do the same to get broad geographical representation.</p>

<p>Theses schools have higher endowements than most colleges, enabling them to give tons of financial aid. Your view on prep schools was certainly valid decades ago, but Andover was one of the first to become need blind and truly diverse. Please get up close for yourself instead of assuming.</p>

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<p>


LOL. And some don't have the capacity to do video productions of that type at all. We, for example, have a loudspeaker in each classroom and a mike. No TV's or videomonitors to show a production, much less make one.</p>

<p>My point was not to say TJ students have it easy. I'm sure there are struggles beyond my imagination. I just want everyone to realize that TJ (or Andover, or other prep or other magnets) doesn't have the market cornered on bright, accomplished students. Individual students in small rural, or large innercity classrooms without IB programs, opportunities for senior research, AP Scholar opportunities, heck -my kid's school doesn't have National Honor Society -these individuals can compete quite well with the magnetic kids on any standardized testing measurements you choose to use. As to who may be better prepared for college adversity, I guess we'll find out. I could argue either side, and over time I probably will.LOL. Everybody just needs to recognize that just because you are justifiedly proud of your school or your kid, that doesn't mean that they are better or better prepared than an exceptional kid from an academically inferior environment. It all depends on the kid and some have developed an ability to overcome the limtations imposed on them by enviroment and it appears some elite colleges value that ability.</p>

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<p>soccerguy:</p>

<p>TJ and Stuy are very fine schools like prep schools. My kids went to prep school from NY City top magent school on full financail aid $31,100 each year. On top they did recive additional financail help in test fee, music lessons fee, music tour etc. Prep school through prep for prep program offer a very diversure background. There best friends also came from NY city ghetto areas. BUt I would have to caution you, these poor kids were exceptionally bright. There are programs like Ichan scholar etc. which provide opportunities for poor but very bright kids. Suze gives you a right pciture that not all kids have money. 35% are on financial aid. And these is not in Andover or exeter or choate or groton or st pauls but there are other prep school which provide similar opportunities.</p>

<p>Kids can do fine anywhere but with better opportunities you try to excel further. To say that good student will do wonderful at rural school. Once any one willing to excel can find opportuiities anywhere. Howvere life becomes a little easier if one does not have to worry about limitation imposed by $$$$$.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
LOL. And some don't have the capacity to do video productions of that type at all. We, for example, have a loudspeaker in each classroom and a mike. No TV's or videomonitors to show a production, much less make one.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Right, but the general perception is that TJ has it great in these respects, when in reality, it is sometimes worse off than "normal" high schools, especially compared to others in Fairfax County. </p>

<p>But I have to disagree that people are equally prepared for college no matter what high school they go to. It's true that a bright kid can succeed anywhere, but schools with more challenging curriculums might serve as better college prep, academically speaking. </p>

<p>That's not to say TJ is perfect. Honestly, I'm suprised at how many upperclassmen don't even know how to write a thesis paper. There is one really good English teacher for sophomores and one for juniors. If you get them (which I did), you're very well prepared for college-level writing. If not...heh, freshman year is time to play catch up. It certainly doesn't help that many TJ students write off their humanities courses, especially English, as unimportant.</p>

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<p>Of course there are kids equally bright in every corner of the planet as the kids at TJ or Andover. I believe though that their chances of getting as far are often limited by environment. We had discussions about this in a class I took this past year. Same kid, different exposures and opportunities, different life outcomes. This is not to say that some don't defy the odds.</p>

<p>If you take Chinaman's children. They were already in a top magnet. That is probably already a huge step up from where they might have gone. TJ is great, but I'm sure it doesn't have money to give kids free music lessons, tours and test fees. So these kids, like so many I see at my prep school, have the same opportunities as those where money is no object. Therefore they will have life advantages the top magnet could not have offered them.</p>

<p>As was pointed out, many more TJ kids could probably have gone to top colleges. Why didn't they? Exposure? Opportunity? Princeton clearly knows and likes TJ, but why doesn't Harvard to the same extent? Money for counselors to go spread the word at every conference? Or maybe it's a matter of kids who have not gone on musical tours and foreign study in high school being less likely to go far from home. Again, exposure and opportunity.</p>

<p>Idealistic I know, but we have to find ways for these opportunities to trickle down.</p>

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<p>I love the way people say the school doesn't heavily weight GPAs and doesn't have a lot of grade inflation, yet practically every kid has 3.6+.</p>

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<p>Um, as a TJ student, I can tell you it doesn't heavily weight GPAs (weighting is minimal compared to many schools - APs give you .5, post-APs are .25, everything else gets nothing) and there really isn't a lot of grade inflation. Teachers don't just hand out As here. You have to work for them. Would you find it odd that the top 10% of every high school in a specific county has a GPA above 3.6, or 3.7 (TJ's average)? TJ takes the best and brightest from area middle schools. It should be no surprise that most do well in high school.</p>

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<p>As often happens with any discussion of TJ, the issue of diversity comes up.
It is is easy to get the impression that TJ is the least diverse school in Fairfax County, if not all of Northern Virginia. Well, guess how many Fairfax County high schools have a higher percentage of white students than TJ? One? Two? How about <em>nine</em>? Source of this data: Fairfax County Public School System. (2004-2005 school year)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.fcps.edu/Reporting/historical/pdfs/ethnic_gender/EthnicRpt04.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.fcps.edu/Reporting/historical/pdfs/ethnic_gender/EthnicRpt04.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>TJ is 61.4 % white. There are three high schools that are over 70 % white. One is over 3/4 white. </p>

<p>I have never heard or seen this brought up in any discuss of the TJ/diversity issue, anywhere, ever.</p>

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<p>Heavens, I can't believe that people are pointing the number who stay "in state" as some measure of lesser prestige, or evidence that kids making some huge tradeoff (low price over quality). That might be true in some other state, but in Virginia? No one should feel sheepish about "only" going to UVa or Wm & Mary.</p>

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<p>blah, I just wrote a response to all of this and it was almost done, and then the whole comp crashed, haha. I was gonna go to bed after I replied, but looks like I’m writing it again, so here goes!</p>

<p>interesteddad - 60-65% white would still feel pretty white to me. But I admit, it would be better.</p>

<p>chinaman - that’s great that your kids are becoming friends with kids from the inner city. I, personally, think things like that are invaluable.</p>

<p>suze - I was not aware that the schools went through so much trouble to bring in people from different backgrounds. I am very impressed that they do that, and I definitely think it is good.</p>

<p>I would love to look at Andover sometime... maybe one day when I am older and wiser... and have money =P</p>

<p>... I wrote more to you in my first post that died, but I can’t remember what it was =/</p>

<hr>

<p>you can get assistance with test fees, and free music trips with the high schools around here. The money will come from the specific program though (band/orchestra/chorus), rather than the school itself. Playing in music groups at northern va high schools allows you the opportunity to play with some of the top high school groups in the country.</p>

<hr>

<p>I feel very strongly that diversity, and the experiences surrounding it, made my high school eduaction better, in terms of personal growth, not necessarily by the book. I personally feel there are 3 kinds of diversity, meaning racial, socioeconomic, and intellectual (this is what I just decided to call it). The intellectual diversity, will never be found at a magnet or prep school, or “top” college, as I think of it as people choosing different courses of life, for example after high school: “top” college, 4 year college, community college, and workforce. Obviously the last 2 will be in extremely small numbers, and even smaller numbers at “top” colleges. When you would walk through the halls and here groups of people talking in other languages (spanish, and asian languages, which I claim complete ignorance on being able to distinguish many of, so I will not attempt to name them), it was kind of uncomfortable at first, but you got used to it. The times when there would be fights, sometimes with knives and sometimes without (that I stayed away from, mind you), added to the experience that I had, although given the choice you would rather they not happen i’m sure. The times when I walked into school and there were 10-15 police officers instead of just 1, logically sent you on a quest to figure out why they were there. One of my favorite days of school was when we had a bomb threat and sat in the stadium for 3 hours, and then were sent back home. (Hey, it was an unplaned day off school, and there were a couple helicopters flying over us =P... and more importantly nothing bad happened.) The highlight of the pep rallies at my school was always the step team, a [virtually] all black group. If I mention “step team” at college, most of the people I know there look at me with blank faces. Things that other people find “weird” or kind of “out there” at college, I find quite normal, or at least, am not suprised. Of course I don’t expect many people have seen any white people wearing FUBU or Sean Jean.</p>

<p>I was stating my opinions and views on the topic from what I know. My opinions are always open to change, when provided with good, solid information (as they have somewhat in this thread). If I came off “attacking” any school, it wasn’t intended =)</p>

<hr>

<p>I think TJ “grade inflation” applies the same as it does at a top college. You take all the “best” kids from the middle schools, and send them to the same high school, just like you take all the “best” kids from the high schools and send them to the same college[s]. They are smart, they work hard, and at another school they would be at the top. Should they be punished for being in an environment where everyone is smarter? That’s another debate, but I feel TJ + [most] elite colleges follow the same philosophy with that.</p>

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<p>Not that it matters squat...but for accuracy's sake:</p>

<p>Some of TJ's graduating seniors were here last night, hanging out...one told me the newspaper report on her college was incorrect--she's actually going to Mount Holyoke, not Boston U; another got off the WL at Brown last week, and is going to attend there ... </p>

<p>Tonight's graduation...but the feelings that inspires is a whole different thread...</p>

<p>Congrats to all our graduated/graduating HS seniors...you've provided us (your parents) w/an incredible 17-18 years (and counting); we're proud of you, and excited for you, regardless of where you went to HS and what you're doing next...but since this is a TJ thread, a special cyberhug to TJ's class of 2005...</p>

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<p>I think having a large minority of Asian/Indian kids hardly hurts the academics--they as a group are probably stronger than the whites.</p>