<p>Oh great point! I'm not sure about this year, but last year I remember there were some ROTC scholarships(Those are full tuitons to selected elite schools with promise of service afterwards, right??). And I know a student last year who joined a Service Academy.</p>
<p>I remember our gym teacher telling us a story about this one student. He wanted to get an ROTC scholarship so bad, so everyday he would attempt to do pullups during break. He started off not being able to do any, but our gym teacher was proud to say that with a lot of perseverance, he was able to get 34 by the time he had to pass the ROTC fitness test.</p>
<p>From my class (TJ 2004), two kids went to the U.S. Air Force Academy, one to West Point, and I know of at least three others who attended various schools on ROTC scholarships. Dunno what 2005's problem is, but we always viewed them as a bit of a sketchy class anyway :).</p>
<p>Also RE: sports, way back in the beginning of the thread:
My class probably had at least 10 NCAA Div 1 student-athletes. I know three kids who are doing cross country at D1 schools including W&M's freshman all-american Christo Landry, probably 5+ that are doing crew, a few more that are doing swimming. We usually do well in the 'non-traditional' sports but if you want to look past the class of '04 we have a quarterback from '02 on Florida's roster, a WR from the same year who plays for Princeton, another WR on UVA, etc. So while the D1 football players are few and far between, they have been known to happen.</p>
<p>Lots of kids go on to excel at some of the smaller LACs at a Division 3 level at all. I particpated in a few sports during my time at TJ and while I'm sure it was a lot easier to get on any given team than at another local HS, the effort expended was the same and the results usually ended up to be pretty good.</p>
<p>I find this thread so interesting because we simply do not have a non-private school that matches this school's excellence as an option within our public schools of MA. How fortunate Virginia students are to have a school like TJ! My son, who will be attending WM in the Fall, was told by our GC that nobody gets into the VA schools from our school (MA) so he feels like he won a prize for being accepted at WM as one of the 30% out of staters. He applied ED and hasn't looked back. It's disheartening to hear how the TJ students view WM but I suppose that is why my son refused to look at Tufts, Harvard, Dartmouth, etc. The grass is always greener and man, was it greener in VA when we visited in March! I wish we were getting the in-state discount!</p>
<p>Your son will meet some talented students at William and Mary. The teachers I have had contact with over the years were extremely gracious, hard-working and accessible to students.</p>
<p>I attended W&M last year and for those who become enamored with it, it's an incredible public institution that provides a top LAC education and research opportunities at half the cost. The professors (since they don't get paid a whole lot or do a whole lot of research) are there because they love to teach, and the students there are on the whole a very down to earth and smart group. I hope he enjoys it. Make sure he goes to the football games.</p>
<p>Students no longer have to be among the top 800 applicants to be admitted. This year, TJ's "semifinalist pool" had 1601 kids. The new admissions process also gave TJ discretion to deemphasize academic achievements and to emphasize factors such as social skills, in deciding which 495 students to admit out of these 1601 semifinalists. TJ used that discretion to reject many exceptional math students, including some who ranked among the top two dozen in the state. </p>
<p>It remains to be seen whether the graduating class in 5 years will have as many budding mathematicians, scientists and engineers, or even as many National Merit Semi-finalists as the graduating classes in past years. "Base" high schools and/or private schools may well have a larger percentage of the high-achieving math/science/tech students in the future. They'll certainly have a higher percentage of the mathematically advanced students.</p>
<p>I personally think the larger semifinalist pool was just created to make the lower 800 applicants feel better and their parents feel better and not complain to the school board. being a semifinalist makes them feel somewhat good, and motivates them to do well at their base high school. unfortunately for them, semifinalist has no actual value like an Intel STS semifinalist or a SiemensWestinghouse semifinalist.</p>
<p>Academic excellence is still a major factor and I think that you'll find that 90% of the kids that get selected in the finalist pool come from the top 800 in the 'semifinalist' pool.</p>
<p>VaMom has a point, I think. I have direct knowldge of someone who scored very well at the state level in both Mathleague and MathCounts and did not get in. This student attended the same middle school as my sons did. I have heard of this happening to other students as well.</p>
<p>IMO I got out at the right time. TJ seems destined for a downturn - the administration is cracking down on a lot of the stuff that made the TJ experience so great (student freedom, senior lounge, homecoming) and the increased class sizes in that decaying school don't exactly bode well.</p>
<p>I would just like to say in reply to VaMom that it is doubtful that there will be a decrease in the amount of "budding mathematicians, scientists and engineers" etc. TJ is still full of many of those kind of people. However, just because somebody has won a state math competition does not mean they are going to be the next nobel prize winner. There are lots of students like that at TJ. MANY of the applicants excel in academics. And few of the semifinalists for applications probably have lower than a 3.7. The "first cut" isolates the kids with good grades, but the final selection probably emphasizes more on social skills because just taking the top 450 GPAs does not give you the most successful graduates.</p>
<p>I'm surprised no one's mentioned the elephant in the room concerning TJ admissions. I have to wonder if this move is meant to increase the number of URMs in the final pool from which they draw acceptees.</p>
<p>In regard to TJ and UVA: I attended an admissions info session sponsored by the VA Commonwealth Governor's School last year, and the UVA Admissions rep called TJ "a feeder school" for the university. It's hard for students from other VA high schools to compete with TJ's reputation. For UVA to accept 256 TJ students into their incoming freshman class doesn't leave a lot of room for other students. No wonder some of the best and promising students from other VA high schools get rejected or waitlisted.</p>
<p>I don't think the the weighting for AP and other advanced courses is unusual when you are looking at public schools, but many privates do not weight. A 3.7 at top independent schools is very good. That most of the kids get 3.7 tempers Virginia state school admissions, as they are very gpa conscious. I have seen kids who were in the top of their class in these private prep schools get turned down by UVA (with 1500+ SATs) for GPA reasons. We are talking about 3.5-3.6 unweighted gpas which the top private schools including ivies recognized as outstanding. This is pertaining to OOS kids, but two I know are legacies which are treated as in-state for admissions purposes, TJ does have to be aware that their grading system has to be in line for UVA/WM &M admissions. I know a number of private schools that just do not do well with their own state universities because their grading standards and the way transcripts are viewed at those unis are incompatible. Looking at our private school history with UVA, our school would not do well at all in admissions there, much worse than it would/ and has done with even the top ivies.</p>
<p>I'm not sure why this thread was topped after months of being dormant, but let me address the two posts from today.
[QUOTE]
For UVA to accept 256 TJ students into their incoming freshman class doesn't leave a lot of room for other students.
[/QUOTE]
With over 6000 offers of admission made each year (not counting transfers), there's plenty of room for students from the rest of the Commonwealth at UVA.
[QUOTE]
because their grading standards and the way transcripts are viewed at those unis are incompatible
[/QUOTE]
A good amount of the time spent reviewing and application is spent interpreting the transcript with the help of the school profile. The profile tells us about the grading system, method of calculation for GPA, and curriculum at the school. </p>
<p>Plenty of schools have discontinued weighting and ranking. Some have done away with traditional grading all together. You may think your school is unique in its practices, but there only a few schools in the country that are truly non-traditional in their curriculum and grading system.</p>
<p>Considering UVA tends to accept 30% OOS kids, that makes TJ students more than 5% of those accepted. That seems awfully high to me for ONE school, especially to a flagship state school. I don't know of any other such situation except for very small schools where it does not take a large number to make a big percentage. Not to say that the TJ kids should be rationed. I think that it is great that UVA does look at the student without worrying about rationing, as it already is somewhat restricted by OOs limitations.<br>
Most of the independent schools have not ever weighted. So it is not a matter of discontinuing the process, and these schools are most traditional in curriculum and grading system.<br>
I know that Virginia has some stellar independent schools, but know little about them. Is the accept ratio from UVA as high for those schools that have as challenging a curriculum and exceptional students? Also do the UVA most selective private schools weight their grades? Even taking into account the ratio of instate to out of state, the acceptance rate to UVA from independent schools in the Northeast looks low. The higher gpas seem to fare much better from less challenging schools. I am looking at 6 year data from a number of schools here that are broken down by college and applications to that college and the results with special categories (URM, athlete, etc) asteriked.</p>
<p>We know a number of very highly qualified students from Northern Virginia, particularly those who have gone to private schools in the DC area, who have been waitlisted or rejected by UVA because they favor the kids from TJ. Over 300 kids from TJ apply to UVA, most as a "safety school", and the vast majority are accepted. Of course the kids from TJ are usually extremely well-qualified, but the other students in Northern Virginia are put at a disadvantage because while there is no "quota" from a particular school, there is a "quota" of sorts by region of the state. The rest of the state gets kids in who are far less qualified than many of the students from Northern Virginia so that there is wide representation by region. That's fine, but then there should be wide representation by school from NoVa--and fewer from out of state. North Carolina and other states have a mandated percentage from OOS at their state universities, and it is far less than the 1/3 or so that is allowed at Virginia schools. </p>
<p>Girls from NoVa are especially at a disadvantage. For the UVA class of '07 60% of the applicants were girls. UVA tries to keep their #s close to 50-50 as best they can, though girls make up the larger percentage of students at the school.</p>
<p>irishforever, as a Mom in the outlands of VA (not NOVA), I agree with your perspective. I wish the legislature would increase the slots for qualifed in state kids, even though losing some OOS kids would detract from the national based vibe on campus. Maybe more than Chapel Hill allows but less than we offer now for OOS? Not because I don't love the OOS kids (I do, and I think they add tons to UVa and Wm and Mary as learning communities)..but because I think there are just so many highly qualified Virginia students who have worked very hard, have the stats and deserve a berth in their state schools. Virginia students because of the beltway are often from many other states in the first place and bring diversity with them even if they are all in NOVA or in coastal Virginia zip codes. My experience with UVa and Wm and Mary admissions for my son was extremely positive and even quite warm and personal, but it does detract from our happiness when one is aware that some kids in NOVA are likely equally qualified and not getting offers.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
there is a "quota" of sorts by region of the state
[/QUOTE]
This is also incorrect and we address this at every stop we make and every info session we give. Still, the rumor persists.
[QUOTE]
but then there should be wide representation by school from NoVa
[/QUOTE]
If there is a school in NOVA that does not have alumni at UVA, I'd be surprised. I can't think of one.
[QUOTE]
UVA tries to keep their #s close to 50-50 as best they can, though girls make up the larger percentage of students at the school.
[/QUOTE]
Also incorrect. 56% of American college students are women. We see no need to play games with the overall ratio. </p>
<p>It seems that no matter how many times we talk about our process, people will pay more attention to what they hear from sources outside of our office. Perhaps I should just give up, sign off, and let the rumors fly.</p>
<p>I am always interested in statements such as this about quotas. As an academic, let me ask:</p>
<p>Are you willing to state flatly that if two candidates have otherwise identical records (scores, grades, quality of school, letters, intended major, ECs, family income, race) that they have EXACTLY the same probability of admission whether one is from NOVA or from rural Virginia? If this is not absolutely true, then there is effectively a soft quota of sorts even if there is no numerical figure for a cutoff from any region.</p>