Diary of an URM Parent (Journey to Elite Stats Kids)

11 is something that is important to our family as well. While myself and my wife went to college no grandparents went to college for my children. Then one generation back more on my side weren't from the US originally. My kids were taught where they came from and never had that much handed to them.

Another thing we did was my wife stayed home for 8.5 years. It hurt financially. No big vacations. We had to make many decisions on what to spend money on. The kids were taken each week to library time and all that type of stuff. They were taught plenty before normal school started. Then once school started we watched them closely. School always came first. They knew no bs would be put up with in regards to school.

We just did the normal stuff for the kids. At least the normal stuff we thought. Over the years we have learned that not all parents do the same stuff.

In the end holding kids accountable is the key.

Keep up the great work all.

@gpo613 No, actually it’s pretty rare for parents today to care for their children by holding them accountable and sacrificing together to get the kids on the right track.

Wonderful post @ChangeTheGame - such important tips. There are so many families who could learn from you, and even the kids who don’t have parents invested in education could really benefit from tutors and mentors like you. S19 goes to a very diverse high school (I think in the same state as your family) and I see so many kids (of all races) who could really use guidance about college planning. I’m so impressed with your attitude toward “giving back” and your plan to be foster parents. Best of luck to your kids and the next crazy college search process for you and your son!

@gpo613 The stay at home sacrifice is an amazing sacrifice to make. I know my wife would have preferred to stay at home (especially when our kids were young), but it would have been so painful early in my career. Having our children young before we built up our incomes caused us some pain (no vacations when they were young along with swallowing our pride a couple of times to ask for help so that my kids could do an activity). That is why I will always give more credit to my kids and our village, because the stars sometimes have to align to get an good outcome. Even today, my kids probably get the most joy out of a book (or comic book for my son), because it was the one gift we could give them (courtesy of our great local libraries) before we could do more.

@elena13 It is not hard for us to give back because we always seem to get more out of doing so than what we give. My daughter has started mentoring a hs student at our Church since she has been home on break and the growth I see in her makes me believe she is getting more out of it than the young student is.

Helpful advice–particularly the part about knowing when you need to step in to advocate for your kids in the face of conscious or unconscious racism.

Can you tell me more about the class you mentioned in #7? Where did you find it? Or was that something you created?

@ccprofandmomof2 The class we took was setup through our church. One of the members of our church who does some private college admissions consulting ran the class. I have heard of a private admissions counselor in our area that runs a similar class and they are much cheaper than an one on one private college admissions counselor. I am not sure if our church paid for the classes or if the member offered her services for free to our church, but I did not have to pay anything for the class and it was fantastic (I sat in on most sessions to make sure I understood what I needed to do). Over the eight 3 hour sessions, they went over the entire gambit of college admissions (besides standardized testing prep). I would tell you to check your area’s test prep centers and private admissions consultants to see if they have a similar group class on the college admissions process.

@ChangeTheGame Thanks! Sounds like a wonderful program!

@ChangeTheGame, first, I want to applaud you and your wife for the work, sacrifices and foresight that led to the great outcomes. You have my admiration.

Our background is different as I am Jewish and white. My grandparents emigrated from Eastern Europe with nothing and no college degrees but on both sides of the family pushed very hard for education achievement. One one side of the family, a physicist (my dad) and a mathematician who later became a lawyer. On the other side, a lawyer, a PhD in Romance languages (my mom), and a geologist (BS only, who worked for the government). My father grew up in the Depression and generally pretty poor and that experience affected his decision-making for his whole life, although he never once talked about it or complained. We were fortunate to grow up middle class – we lived in one town because the more affluent town my mother wanted to live in was governed by one of the gentlemen’s agreements – the real estate brokers didn’t sell houses in that town to Jews. My dad later bought a house there from a developer who wasn’t using an agent, We were at the tail end of anti-semitism in the US (until the Trump era resurgence) but in elementary school (in the first town), kids wanted to fight me because I was Jewish and I was one of 4 Jews in my HS class of 400 in the second town. I went to an Ivy that reeked of WASP aristocracy but the only discrimination I ever experienced there was from the mother of a GF whose family had come over on the Mayflower. The daughter was an Nth generation legacy and was a gem – great spirit all the way around.

My background is probably also different because I attended three very elite schools and taught at one in the beginning of my career and am probably in the bottom of the top 1%.

That said, I have two kids that I have guided through the college maze and post-college maze. Both had LDs and serious medical issues. One kid is severely dyslexic, extremely bright, and has had two major surgeries for a condition that often made him tired. The other was/is ADHD, is very bright, and was (incorrectly) diagnosed with a degenerative disease that would have led to near blindness – it took years to solve the problem. My wife did dial down her career when the kids were of school age.

Both kids have had great outcomes in life (thus far) and people have attributed some of the success to the ways I helped each one navigate. If I might, let me add a couple of things to your list.

First, my goal was not to help them get in to the most prestigious college but to help prepare them for fulfilling, successful adult lives. Prestige matters for some kids and not others, though my observation is that the signalling value of prestige makes more of a difference for URMs. But, the goal was to help prepare them to spend their lives in fulfilling ways, in jobs that they loved (maybe not at first but as they progressed) and that treated them well (however they defined being treated well). For some kids, prestige would be important. For others not. I hoped also for them to find partners who would support, complement and love them, but I’m not sure that I have any direct competence to teach that (though I hope that our marriage has served as an imperfect but decent model for them).

Second, college admissions is about showing no weaknesses (otherwise the adcom can find another kid who is arguably similar without that weakness) and probably exhibiting one key strength. In my son’s case, showing no weakness was going to be impossible (he couldn’t do foreign languages at all) but his strengths were so prodigious that I decided to admit the weaknesses (he just didn’t take foreign languages) and focused on making sure his reading and writing were closer to his intellectual capacity and simultaneously making sure he could play to his strengths so he retained his self-confidence. In contrast, grad school admissions and job searches involve playing to one’s strengths. My daughter transferred after one semester of her freshman year to a program that played to her strengths – her idea – and it has worked out wonderfully.

Third, regarding point 4, I had to advocate for them like crazy – especially for my son. It started in grade 2 for my son – who took in and produced written information very slowly and needed extra time as well as help in learning to read. We had the same issue with gifted or enrichment programs because he was slow at doing tasks. Later, it took a full year of advocating to get my son double time on the SATs spread out over two days, but I did it. But, I used that to teach them how to advocated for themselves. I discussed with them what I was doing, how I was doing it, and encouraged them to help. Advocating for themselves meant shaping the path to fit their strengths and not just pushing up against their weaknesses. The neuropsychologist who tested my son told me when he was a senior that he had never tested a kid who was so confident that he could make the system change to work for him and thus could play to his strengths.

Fourth, regarding point 5, learning to struggle and also to fail and pick yourself up again is a very good lesson – best to be learned before HS. My wife actually told my son it would be OK to fail middle school Latin, but he refused to do so. By HS, it may be important to manage the record .

Fifth, regarding point 3, we set expectations that each kid was going to put in the work. Given our affluent town and their parents’ backgrounds, our kids knew they would go to college. But, my expectation was that they would put in every bit of effort needed. They would do their best in anything that mattered. I have an extraordinary colleague who was attending grad school in another department from me. He was very, very bright (has tenure at one of the best universities in the world where I started my career). He would methodically prepare for tests and work backwards from the deadline to figure out what to do when. When it came time to prepare for his general exams, he laid out a several week program of preparation. One of his classmates (who was my GF at the time) asked him “You do so well on exams. Why do you need to spend so much time preparing?” He said, “I think you have the causation backwards. I do so well because I prepare so intensely.” I shared that (repeatedly) with my kids and I could see them adopting it over time.

Finally, we didn’t do the classes on college prep or elevator pitches. I think I naturally gave a lot of that to my kids. But, I do see that one needs even more than that. My son went to a very highly ranked LAC. A number of his college friends came from economically underprivileged backgrounds. Many were URMs, though not all URMs are lower SES (one of his college roommates who came to our house on NYE is an African American son of a leading physician and a foundation CFO). My son has observed that the lower SES folks got no advice or bad advice on careers and on financial decisions. (E.g., don’t use a credit card to finance a higher rent than you can afford on a teacher’s salary.) They didn’t learn about or get help getting internships. Some majored in fields like English or Psychology or African American Studies that would require more work to get jobs but didn’t get guidance on how to do that. I would really like to see the school proactively help – if the school is really pushing to admit lower SES and URM kids, which it explicitly says it is, the school should proactively help prepare them for next steps. But, they won’t or don’t know how to. While your kids are not lower SES, it will fall upon you @ChangeTheGame and your village to do so for your kids. And, I’m sure you are up to the task.

@ChangeTheGame It is rare to read a post in the “this worked for us” genre which is applicable to almost everybody. I know that we used many of those same strategies, and they all worked. Some we didn’t need to do because of our background, and because of the opportunities available where we live. I would also like to tell you how much I admire you and your spouse, you because almost every single one of those strategies is more difficult for URMs in the USA than it is for White people.

Like others I especially liked how you allowed your kids to try things, to fail, and to figure out how learn from that failure. One of the biggest problems in baby-Boomer and Gen-X parenting has always been the drive to protect their kids from sadness and failure. Nothing teaches resilience like failure does, and there are few lessons as valuable as the fact that failure isn’t something to fear. Allowing kids to fail teaches them that failure isn’t a permanent condition, but one of the many events along the course of normal, healthy development.

So thank you for sharing this, and congratulations on your kids’ present and future success. As they say in Israel, “Kol HaKavod!!”.

@shawbridge Let me 1st say that reading about your family history of your parents being affected growing up in the depression, talented people, and overcoming discrimination is one that speaks to perseverance. I love hearing those stories and believe that sharing that history with our kids lets them know that they to can overcome setbacks and rise above challenges. When it comes to expectations, I have met many parents who are nervous about putting any pressure on there kids, but our thinking involved getting them ready for the pressures that life one day brings. Some expectations were non-negotiable (working hard, perseverance, and treating people right no matter their place in the world). Your kids sound like they got all of those lessons early.

@MWolf I have watched many kids growing up while raising my children whose psyche would be terribly affected by failure and instead of avoiding it, we hoped to instill the fortitude and work ethic to overcome those challenges. Now that my daughter is in college, it gives me great comfort knowing how my daughter will respond to struggles (because I have seen it many times).

@changethegame I really wish every kid played sports, played chess like my son or did dance /singing /acting like my daughter or something similar. You learn resilience. You learn that maybe you did everything correct but maybe they already have to many blonde /blue eyed /5ft 6t types to cast. Sorta like college admissions. You do everything correct and have a 3.9 GPA with a 34 act but don’t get accepted to your number one college. Maybe they had to many of that type already.

With sports you can win /lose in the same game over and over. You can make a great play but still lose the game. To me chess is the best at learning these lessons. You give the opponent the respect of a handshake. You battle hard but one little mistake and your game is over. Sometimes while you are still playing to the end. Still fighting. Kids at first when their young might cry and don’t want to go back and play another game. Usually 4 in one day. With chess you learn from your mistakes if taught correctly since in theory you should review each game whether you win or lose but especially if you lose. Why? So you can quickly learn from your mistakes. There is a theory that losing is a good thing for a chess player and shows growth. Sometimes you have to lose a lot to get to the next level of play (which there are many) because just one day it all clicks. You finally see the why of why you were losing. It’s magical to actually witness. I have seen kids like my son, when young (think 6/7) go on major losing streaks then start winning 3/4 matches. Most chess players will win /lose in the same day. They learn to sorta brush it off and move on. Like auditions that my daughter did, they learn that you always try to do your best but sometimes it just doesn’t work out. Then they move on.

Both my kids learned from the college process that you get accepted, rejected and wait listed from some great colleges. If you tried your best then there is nothing to be disappointed about.

I will also add a pitch for learning to dance, for those who have the interest, rather than sports/athletics. My child is a dancer, rather than a typical athlete or in sports. Despite the fact that it often gets less respect than athletics, possibly because it is not really competitive in the same way*. However, it requires just as much physical effort (more, in fact), years of perseverance (my kid has been dancing and learning dance since the age of 4), and high levels of creativity, if you also choreograph.

It can be disconcerting, though, if your kid is sitting with a 180+ degree split on the floor while reading - not something you will generally encounter with a child who is a baseball player…

  • Dance competitions are, IMO, BS, because A, there is no way to objectively judge a "winner" between two dance performances by top-notch dancers, B, dance, as a performance art, is about consistently performing well, not about a single performance which happens to be better than the performance of another person/team, and C, when the competition includes more than one dance style it is like a sprinter competing against a pole vaulter.

It’s great that you can look back and see all the ways that looking forward has been so rewarding and affirming of the choices nd strategies you and your spouse made for your family.

I can’t say there were any well-laid, long- range plans in our minds regarding the educational paths our kids would take. We made some decisive moves to check the stats in the local Chambers of Commerce each time we moved, looking for strong school systems with the ability to educate our lightbulb-bright first kid, then moved into private school when that just simply seemed necessary.

With each kid’s academic success seemingly effortless, the biggest ‘intentionals’ were social gatherings and experiences outside of structured, school- lead events. We spent enormous amounts of hours at community and library events as the kids were coming along, and when there were just two we still attended live readings, music and theater outings. Those were the days.

It was tremendously important to advocate for them in school, and even to read and quote statute when needed. It got tiring.

When our oldest started compiling a college list we actually used the viewbooks received in the mail and reference materials at the local library. It raises eyebrows sometimes when I say that, but it is who we were/are. (Just requested some for the final guy, #4.)

Overall,I think ( ha…this posted without my knowing) living a rather low-key, high-sacrifice existence and letting the kids talk to us about absolutely everything, letting them try whatever they found to be within their interest area which could fit into the budget, and having me at home with them was the most consistent, this- is- how- we- do- it type of thing we did.

Of course, outcomes are not a first stop on the milepost type of thing, but a long-eyed view, and college seems to be working well for them, so here’s to the next steps, whatever those may be.

This being College Confidential, and the talk centered around college entry and success there, so far, so good.

As always, continued success to your kids.

@Knowsstuff and @MWolf Any activity that teaches a kid how to compete and grow through successes and failures is a plus in my book.

@Waiting2exhale You are a role model for me because I have seen not only your kids outcomes, but your level of involvement (sacrifice of time) in your kids lives through your posts. One thing that I have seen missing from some families is that one attribute. I have seen lots of families with more wealth, but no time to guide their kids. Some of the best advice I have ever received when my kids were young dealt with living in and enjoying your kids because they will one day leave the nest. It has not been natural for me to sacrifice for the sake of my kids in all that we have done (time sacrifices were easy but not the wealth, especially early on), but my wife has made it look so easy, I could not be “that guy” and I am very thankful that my wife.

According to my wife, the best thing we did was pray (I am not that religious by the way) and let our kid just be when he was under stress and just letting him be. In other words, we laid grounds by deciding to live in an area in a safe environment where he got a decent education while adjusting to U.S. life (we were expat), but we supported and advised him without pushing him to give more effort.

Many times, we wanted to get mad or say something but we held our tongues.

I think that, in many ways, it is too bad that this thread is on College Confidential, because the wisdom here should be shared with parents of kids of all ages, or even with people who plan on being parents.

I personally wish that @Waiting2exhale, @ChangeTheGame, @shawbridge, and others who I’m missing, would set up a family advice service, or blog, or something akin to that. You all have so much good advice, from multiple points of view and different background, etc., that should be shared with a wider set of parents. I know that you all have jobs and other commitments, and likely do not have the time, but that would be awesome.

@websensation There are so many things that we as parents have no control over and whether people believe in the power of prayer (We definitely do) or just being lucky, there have been things that have gone just right when we needed them to or we have avoided some possible pitfall (We once got sideswiped by a car going 80 mph on a side street with no injuries to my then 4 and 2 year old kids). We all need some of that in raising our kids.

@MWolf One thing that I am very thankful for is that CC has given a forum for students and parents. Navigating my kids high school years would have been so much harder without seeing how others have done it. It has been inspirational and enlightening for me to watch parents and students work for and achieve their goals. I am self aware enough to say that I am still learning and we have made lots of mistakes along the way (I have thought about posting about that because we learn from making mistakes as parents too). I have shared my own family’s story because parents may see some things that could work for them that they haven’t thought of in their own journeys. Giving actual advice is very hard (every kid, situation, and parent is different) so I tend to stick to the things that are time tested (working hard, learning to overcome life’s difficulties, and sticking together as a family).

I personally think a thread on all the mistake we made as parents would be very entertaining. If you do post a link.

@Knowsstuff Here is that thread on Parental mistakes

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2120036-biggest-mistakes-that-i-have-made-as-a-parent.html#latest

@ChangeTheGame You misunderstand my point about prayer, I think. As a true agnostic, I do not believe that praying has any inherent power to effect changes, but what I am convinced is that it does lead to affect the actions of those praying which indirectly affect those around you. Specifically, in our case, we tried to just hold our mouths, show our kid love and not scold him even when he could have done better. In other words, whatever college admissions or whatever GPA or test scores he got, we stood ready to support and encourage him. Ultimately, we rather have a kid attending a community college or no college at all with whom we had a good relationship rather than a kid attending one of HYPSM. If there is any advice from me, it is stop giving too much advice, just love and hug your kid and let them know you truly care about them. The kids have their own time when things click.

Actually, 95% of things I learned from this forum, I just kept to myself and never told my kid or my spouse.