<p>laurak, interesting choice. On this board, I don't know how many would make that choice.</p>
<p>I know a childhood friend who went to one of the Arizona state schools over Harvard. Athletic opportunities and free ride. He is now a full professor at a major state university. His athletic prospects went up in smoke when he was injured but he was professional material from what I understand, and the program there gave him that possibility that he did not want to pass up. He has had no regrets.</p>
<p>My son went to help people in a poor Mexican village. We remain quite impressed by it and believe in that type of thing. He learned a lot about himself, learned a lot of Spanish ( a real job skill not dependent on elite connections) and learned of thestuggles of folks in a town where there are no men or older teen age boys because they all are up here being "gophers". If the eltitists think being a gopher for a few months, while at night you hang out at the country club at night , is better, screw them. BTW my wife was a migrant farm worker in her youth and grew up in a housing project on the border. I did my share of bad jobs.</p>
<p>The app readers are jaded elitists, often times youngsters from the prestigious schools who are still deciding what to do with their lieve and have probably never been gophers themselves.. I guess they find it romantic, exotic or something. </p>
<p>Goes to show you the fallacy of trying to impress those idiots. These are who everyone is killing themselves to impress.?! The Peter Principle in action.</p>
<p>$1500 to send your kid to Mexico to help out or just live in a poor Mexican village is just poor misguided smucks buying prestige in their eyes. $15,000/ year on a prep highschool. Now that is demonstrating real values. Can't learn much from the folks in a Mexcian village, but ah the learning opportunity from associating with the peer group at the elite prep school or college.</p>
<p>Texdad,
Why your bitterness toward adcoms? Do you know any?</p>
<p>The adcoms whom I know are not jaded elitists. Their jobs, frankly, are low paying , have long hours and lots of hard work. The people attracted to them tend to be people who have some kind of commitment either to their alma maters (in that some colleges like Harvard hire only alums for admissions positions) or to the development of young people. Many adcoms themselves came from less privileged backgrounds and have a particular heart for applicants who are coming up the hard way.</p>
<p>Folks interesed in hanging out at the country club and being gophers are probably going to be looking for high paying, high status jobs, or heading to med school or law school, not slaving away in admission offices.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, if you could afford to spend $1,500 to send your child to Mexico, you have a fair amount of disposible income and your child's background is privileged. It's wonderful that your child had a good experience and learned a lot about himself and about the world. Your son got lessons from that experience that wlll serve him well for the rest of his life.</p>
<p>However, the experience isn't likely to tip your kid into an elite college's admissions. What could be a tip would be if a child raised or earned the $ themselves to have that kind of experience. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, going to prep school doesn't automatically get a student into an elite college. The advantage that students have at the top prep schools is that they already have been through a tough admissions process to get into the top prep school, and they have survived an atmosphere that may actually be more rigorous than what Ivies have. Therefore, a higher precentage of students from top prep schools are accepted to top colleges than occurs at most public schools. Public high schools like Styvestant H.S. in New York, which have rigorous admission standards and tough curricula, however, rival prep schools in terms of how their students do in elite college admissions.</p>
<p>NorthStarMom:
You may want to take a look at the thread 'How do you pronounce your username?'. It morphed into a discussion about the origin of poster_names, and there is rampant speculation beginning about the origin of yours...</p>
<p>OptimizerDad</p>
<p>Texdad, I concur with Northstarmom's post regarding adcoms. Yes, there are some that have problems and biases, but most of them arae quite dedicated to their jobs, and conscientious in sticking to the guidelines they have been given. Overall, the process is fair. </p>
<p>I am not denying that spending the $1500 to go to Mexico to do community service is a much better use of time and money than to spend it having a good time at home or at some self serving program. But these programs are now popping up everywhere and are becoming an easy way to "buy" a community service program. It is much harder and more boring and requires more stick-to-itivness to work regularly at some local center, or local program. Harder yet, to put together a successful program that makes a big impact. Yes, some kids go on these abroad programs through a genuine concern and interest in that situation. And in a case like that it would fit into the overall picture the student presents. A Spanish/political science double major who has essays on Mexican/US relationships, who has excelled in the government/language courses, who has worked as a tutor at a shelter in a Hispanic area,certainly can make an excellent case for spending time and money in Mexico doing community service. If the activity just stands alone, well, it does not have the impact, and this goes for any activity. But these programs should not be chosen solely for building a resume. If you think they are high impact items on a college app, you are mistaken. That does not preclude them from being valuable activities. </p>
<p>Someone else asked about the value of the high cost CTY and other precollege programs. Again, they are viewed in the context of the whole picture of the applicant. Colleges love to see kids reaching beyond their own environment in pursuit of a more challeging academic experience. For kids who are from schools that are mediocre and do not send many kids to the top schools, it gives the colleges an opportunity to see how these kids can perform among other top students since those programs tend to be made up of high achievers. One warning, however, is that if your kids do poorly at some of these programs, you may be asked about them on some apps and asked to present the grades. I know some kids who did not do well at a Johns Hopkins summer , and were surprised to to be asked about their participation on the Hopkins app. The same with Cornell, and other college programs. I also can tell you that there are not any admissions advantages to going to this programs with the college sponsoring them as far as I can see. I do know many kids who excelled in those programs, got prof recs from them, were well within the acceptance parameters and were turned down nonetheless much to the dismay of all concerned.</p>
<p>Optimizerdad,
I have posted the origins of my name, but couldn't find in those hundreds of back posts the speculation about my name. I guessed that people assumed I have a hockey connection, but clue me in, please.</p>
<p>About CTY and similar programs, I agree with Janimom. The programs are wonderful opportunities for willing students to pursue their intellectual passions. That's where their value is. They do not open doors for elite college admissions.</p>
<p>We dug deep into our pockets to send S, a junior, to CTY and TIP. That's because he really wanted to go, and because the program offered him the chance to explore a subject that he had no other opportunity to explore. His attending reflects his enjoyment of intellectual activities, which indicates that he has the kind of motivation and intellectual passion that could make a top university or a LAC a good fit for him (as it is for many other students). We don't, howver, expect his CTY/TIP experiences to open admission doors for him.</p>
<p>I do see, however, our money as being well spent because he so enjoyed the opportunity to learn alongside peers with similar interests. Even though he's in our city's best academic program, he still doesn't get much chance to be around students who have passionate interests in the subjects he's interested in or who are interested in learning for learning, not for grades. CTY/TIP offered him that chance.</p>
<p>jym</p>
<p>sorry my reply so tardy; I have been traveling.</p>
<p>I believe that the summer college programs probably have most value for (1) genuine academic excitement and interest for the kid or (2) dry run on being away from home for kid who is tentative. I wouldn't do it to resume-pad, personally.</p>
<p>My kid had the same summer job for 4 years and it was scut work. But by final year she had worked her way up to manager, and I think that says something about her overall responsibility level. (She is also a miser and has about every cent she ever earned. Good, because shell have some spending $ for college!)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Did anyone's child choose a free ride over a "more prestigious" school?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>My neighbor went to UMass/Amherst campus over Cornell and Princeton, because his father believed that as far as making money, what mattered is the graduate school credential. My neighbor excelled at UMass, and got into and graduated from Harvard Law School. Happy ending? Not totally. He still wishes he had had the rich experience of a Princeton undergrad education, for personal enrichment. While he is not mad at his Dad and appreciates all he did do, he thinks his father let him down really, since while not rich, they had enough money. Now he's making a ton of money as a corp lawyer,and while it's not like he dwells on it, he says he wishes he could use his money to buy back that Princeton experience.</p>
<p>"Now he's making a ton of money as a corp lawyer,and while it's not like he dwells on it, he says he wishes he could use his money to buy back that Princeton experience'.</p>
<p>So money has not bought him happiness, it has just made his misery more bearable. He needs to let it go and move on. I really hopes he gets past this before he has kids, who may end up being streesed out basket cases as their dad will want to live his dream through them.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So money has not bought him happiness, it has just made his misery more bearable.
[/quote]
Heck no, he's happy. He just thinks going to UMass over Princeton to save a few $$$ when you have the dough is a penny wise, Pound foolish...</p>
<p>"He just thinks going to UMass over Princeton to save a few $$$ when you have the dough is a penny wise, Pound foolish..."</p>
<p>I bet he'll be willing to let his kids go to any expensive college that they choose. It will be ironic if their first choice is U Mass. It can be funny how kids' dreams can differ so much from what parents' dreams were when the parents were young.</p>
<p>It's a familiar story. My father thought I should choose a State school over Harvard because Harvard was "forcing" me to do a work study job. He just didn't know the difference. Thank god for a very caring teacher who took the time to explain things to him!</p>
<p>My brother went to Ohio State, in which he got a full tuition scholarship, over Purdue, in which he did not get any financial aid. As far as I know, he would make the same decision, he seems pretty happy there. I know Ohio State really isn't a bad school, but I think that Purdue had a better Engineering School than Ohio State does (although that is just my personal opinion.</p>
<p>Shinbatsu, welcome to CC.</p>
<p>Cost is not the same as value and everyones circumstances including financial circumstances are different but at some point the choice isn't the kids its the parents. And I have to tell you even if I were rich as Croesus I wouldn't have a hard time choosing between full pay at an Ivy and a free ride at an Emory or Tulane or USC. I mean get real here folks. Price isn't everything but it is something and to spend more for a thing than it is really worth, even if you can afford it because of the prestige value associated with it is as socially irresponible as that $2 million birthday bash Tyco CEO Kozlowski threw for his wife's 40th a couple of years back.</p>
<p>Anyway for what it is worth that is my opinion. Son didn't go to the cheapest school he got into but was a little shocked when I told him I wouldn't have paid full freight to his first choice even if he had been accepted.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I were rich as Croesus I wouldn't have a hard time choosing between full pay at an Ivy and a free ride at an Emory or Tulane or USC. I mean get real here folks. Price isn't everything but it is something and to spend more for a thing than it is really worth, even if you can afford it
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ok, I've decided from now on to spend less time thinking about money, and more time wondering who the heck Croesus is.</p>
<p>With unlimited funds, I think I would still shop for bargains on clothes and vacations, but I would splurge on education and let the kids go to their dream schools.</p>
<p>With unlimited money I <em>would</em> splurge on vacations. I know this because with limited money, I splurge on vacations.</p>
<p>Jami, thanks, picked up Prep today. A slim volumn I can handle!</p>