<p>Yalebound - Croesus is the guy who got his wish that everything he touched would turn to gold. He was unable to eat because the food turned to gold. At the end, his daughter runs up to him and he inadvertantly turns her to gold.</p>
<p>Kirmum, today's NYTimes Book Review has a long piece on Prep. I am surprised that they did not compare to "Charlotte Simmons". This one is a much quicker read.</p>
<p>I agree that my post was overly harsh. I felt that way soon after, but was busy earlier. I think that the info was really just the misguided thinking of one admissions officer. Or perhaps at that type of school they see so much fakery in a desperate attempt to get in. I admit that it troubles me to see so many of these kids who merely want to make as much money and have as much prestige as possible asking whether: " working with aids victims or the homeless looks better on an app" when they have not the slightest interest in doing either. Maybe the admissions officers get tired of it, too.</p>
<p>These overseas programs helping the poor can be very worthwhile, whether common or not. Of course if they are merely done for apps sake they can be bs just like most other ec's, camps, officerships, grades, etc. The level of phoniness in this whole business is getting out of hand.</p>
<p>Croesus and Midas - same guy?</p>
<p>My D has a free tuition offer at our state honors program but I doubt it will be used. It is very nice to have that option however as one never knows. I'll answer the question in April. My son picked Pomona over many scholarship offers but has never looked back. For him it was a wonderful opportunity and fit. It however took us through a lot of soul searching and exploring values. Folks on here especially Caroline were very helpful in throwing thoughts around.</p>
<p>The expression "as rich as Croesus" comes from the legendary wealth of the king who reigned from 560 to 546 BC over Lydia in western Asia Minor. Gold from the mines and from the sands of the River Pactolus filled his coffers to overflowing. The Lydians in the time of Croesus, it is believed, were the first people to mint coins as money. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.allaboutturkey.com/croesus.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.allaboutturkey.com/croesus.htm</a></p>
<p>Aaack, my bad. Of course I was thinking of Midas, not Croesus. That's what I get for dashing things off w/o double checking myself.</p>
<p>texdad said:
[quote]
The level of phoniness in this whole business is getting out of hand.
[/quote]
I am not capable of agreeing with you more. Sir.</p>
<p>Croesus was also the one who famously consulted the Delphic Oracle about waging war on the Persians. He was told that if he waged war on the Persians a great empire would fall and that he should seek out Greek friends. He saw in that sage advice what he wanted to see and the rest as they say is history.</p>
<p>I do not believe that most adcoms look at the apps trying to figure out if there is any fakery in them unless some clear flag appears. But they do try to come up with a picture of the applicant, and the clearer that image appears, the better as there really is not much time spent on each application--just do the math with the numbers of apps and the number of adcoms and the time they have to review. In the most selective schools, the adcoms do look for a passion or strong interest in a specific area which may hurt some kids who are sampling many different things during high school. Yes, it is unfair. But I have seen some of those kids get into HPY as well as kids who have their direction already chosen. An excellent book that lists the type of activites, honors and awards that turns the heads of the adcoms at top schools is "What it Really Takes to Get into the Ivy League" by Chuck Hughes. You can see that padding a resume or "buying " and experience is not of big values in such schools. The things that are of the most importance are not directly bought and come with a big time commitment from the student, and a directed interest that is supported by other activities.</p>
<p>I have quite a dilemma on my hands. I was accepted to Princeton (Early Decision) and then Texas A&M--my state school--offered me full ride plus stipend. Of course, I want to attend Princeton, but I am very sensitive to the large financial burden it will place on my parents. A&M is close to home, but I will save truckloads of money that I could potentially use for graduate/law school (which is certainly my intention). The decision has made me very anxious and depressed. This is what other people have told me thus far:</p>
<p>1) The CC Princeton board--was obviously very upset that I would even think about breaking the terms of my ED contract. They hounded me for being dishonorable, told me not to enroll because they never wanted to meet me, and some deferred people angrily said I had taken their spots.</p>
<p>2) My church's priest (I have tremendous respect)--left Texas to attend a prestigious college and came back. He said that despite a few setbacks (expense, weather, pretentiousness, etc.) he considers his college years rewarding and, if given the opportunity, would do it again. He said it definately helped him have options and discern his vocation.</p>
<p>3) Current Princeton student from my HS--says Princeton is much more challenging and rewarding than A&M (took summer classes). He says that Princeton has changed him fundamentally as a person and he can't imagine himself anywhere else. Has met extraordinary people, maintained a very healthy social life, and changed his outlook on life.</p>
<p>4) Princeton professor--who used to be a dept. head @ Texas A&M. He stresses that the quality of education and the rigor of classes is exactly the same at both institutions (except humanities and social sciences--I'm thinking of studying engineering). He says, seeing my situation, I would probably benefit more from attending A&M because it's exponentially less expensive. Vouches that choosing either institution will not change my chances of admission into excellent grad schools. Heartily congratulated me on being admitted to Princeton, and assured me that my drive and motivation were the reason I got accepted in the first place and the reasons I would be successful in life (not my institution name). Begged me to call him if I decided to matriculate so that he could be my mentor (yeah--he's a really nice guy).</p>
<p>so what do you think?</p>
<p>Go to a quiet place, get very very still and see what your inner voice says. Don't rush it. </p>
<p>Either choice can be right. (I think you are allowed to decline an ED acceptance due to insufficient aid, though i am not sure about this.)</p>
<p>I also want to mention that your path may change during college so the excellence of a given dept should not be a big factor in your decision; you could switch majors...</p>
<p>congratulations on your acceptances, and good luck!</p>
<p>I find what you said about the attitude of people on the CC Princeton board distressing, unless you would be doing something quite unethical; I'm afraid I don't know the rules. ED was out for us because we need massive financial aid to make it work. You may have a lot of social fence-mending to do if you choose Princeton now, but the damage can probably be limited. I would advise trying to figure out exactly which aspects of the university experience are the most important to YOU and try to choose based on that; you can factor in everyone else's advice, but only you know how much the money issue weighs for you and your family. Congratulations and don't let your dilemma spoil your triumph of acceptances.</p>
<p>Gotta tell you, boss. It's gut-check time. ED requires an understanding of the rules. Did you understand? If so, there is no question what you have to do. Analyze the financial aid package you receive from Princeton. If it is something you can live with or better, you've already made that decision. You made a good choice . To go back on your word is a bad choice. End of story. I know it sounds harsh but by my very rough calculations you're going to have to shave about 1650 more times before you graduate from college. It would be nice to be able to use a mirror.</p>
<p>"I have quite a dilemma on my hands. I was accepted to Princeton (Early Decision) and then Texas A&M--my state school--offered me full ride plus stipend. Of course, I want to attend Princeton, but I am very sensitive to the large financial burden it will place on my parents."</p>
<p>If you are an ethical person, if you have a good character, there is absolutely no dilemma. When you applied ED to Princeton, you knew what the rules were, and so did your family.</p>
<p>If money was going to be the deciding factor for your college education, you should have applied to colleges in a way that ethically allowed money to be the deciding factor. You chose not to do that. You now need to accept the consequences.</p>
<p>Princeton is probably the most generous highly selective college when it comes to granting need-based aid, which is all that it gives. If you and your family wanted more money than need-based aid would provide, then you are smart enough to know that applying ED to Princeton was not the way to go. Any student with the stats to get into Princeton ED had the stats to have gotten an outstanding merit-based offer from an extremely good university. If that was what you wanted, then you should not have applied ED.</p>
<p>Ethically, you have no choice. Stand by your word and accept Princeton -- the fine education and the extra financial costs. If you're concerned about the "burden" on your family, then live your life so that you pay back that money to your parents. Work during the school year and summers. Get fellowships to post graduate study. Delay postgraduate study and work for several years and repay your parents from your funds. Instead of expecting your parents to help you pay for your wedding, buy your first house, furnish your house, pay for your kids' educations, pay for these things yourself even if this means that you can't have some luxuries that you would have wanted. Yes, this is what an ethical person would do if they were faced with the self-made situation you have. They would not go back on their word.</p>
<p>You have absolutely no sympathy from me. </p>
<p>I am a Harvard grad whose education did cause my mom to sacrifice. In return, however, I worked during the school year (including in h.s.), worked up to 60 hours a week during summers, took out loans which I repaid, and when I went to grad school, I went with fellowships and my own hard work. I didn't ask for nor receive any money for grad school from my family. I paid for my own wedding, and without parental help, bought and furnished the homes that I have had. </p>
<p>I was forever grateful to my mom for the sacrifice that she made, and I did my best in adulthood to repay her.</p>
<p>Valdez, after 339 posts your identity is no longer anonymous. If any Princeton adminstrators are following these threads they will have no problem figuring out who you are. If you continue down this road, you may actually jeopardize your acceptance. Princeton is a wonderful school. You made the right choice in the first place. Stop second guessing.</p>
<p>By the way, how much are you getting from P-ton? There's no reason that you can't talk to them honestly, frankly and, most importantly, non-threateningly about your needs. Most likely their offer is still negotiable.</p>
<p>For those unfamiliar with the details Valdezviva's situation, here's his financial aid post from the Princeton board. He also said there that what Princeton offered him was "slightly less" than the estimator.</p>
<p>"I want to restate that princeton is still my first choice and where my passion lies. were all colleges free, i would pack my bags and book a flight to NJ before you could say "orange and black." but unfortunately, education isnt free and and i will have to pay $19K at princeton whereas i can stay at home and receive $24000 in scholarships to attend a public school (which is an excess of $8000 of the cost of attendance--meaning that i will essentially get paid to attend this university)</p>
<p>its a tough decision (well, for me--an overzealous bastard) to make. pay or get paid? the best or good? do i leave my family, my dog, my girlfriend to go 1000 miles away??? not easy questions."</p>
<p>When my S went to college, he turned down a corporate merit scholarship offer worth $20 k plus guaranteed high paying internships and a guaranteed job after graduation. Why did he turn it down? The corporation was insisting that he back out of an internship with another company that he had accepted before applying for the scholarship. When S applied for the merit scholarship, he also told the sponsoring firm that he had accepted an internship offer and would be able to accept their scholarship only if they allowed him to do that internship.</p>
<p>The scholarship that S turned down would have gone directly to him, and as a result, he would have made in excess of the costs of the college he chose. He was virtually guaranteed a great job after graduation in a city he loved and for a company he also loved. Lots of people, including the VP of a Fortune 500, suggested that he take the scholarship, and back out of the internship he had already accepted.</p>
<p>He stood by his word. We were proud of him. I have no sympathy for you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I have no sympathy for you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Way too harsh.</p>
<p>Address the issues separately: ED and is Pton worth the $$$</p>
<p>ED: You applied ED to pton in good faith. You never contmplated this unexpected gift from TAM. You were naive, perhaps, but not calculating. And you didn't write the rules, Pton did.And ED is a bad deal for needy students. You are a victim of the ED system. Don't let this be a factor.</p>
<p>Where to?: Well, here's the problem for you. If you don't go to pton you'll regret it. Not today, maybe not tomorrow, but for the rest of your life.(Casablanca) Unless you will be destitute by going to pton, you owe it to yourself. And there is NO WAY TAM is equivalent to pton, because at pton student body alone is so good, and you'll be stimulated incredibly by them</p>
<p>"You applied ED to pton in good faith. You never contmplated this unexpected gift from TAM. You were naive, perhaps, but not calculating. And you didn't write the rules, Pton did.And ED is a bad deal for needy students. "</p>
<p>Any individual who is intelligent enough to get accepted ED to Princeton is intelligent enough to figure out the financial ramifications of such an application. </p>
<p>There is every evidence that the student realized that going to Princeton would cost his family money. He did, after all, use the financial aid estimator. </p>
<p>If he wanted a free ride, he had every opportunity to not apply ED to Princeton and to apply to some of the many excellent colleges that would have offered him that option.</p>
<p>It seems that now -- with the Princeton ED offer in hand, the unsurprising financial aid that they're offering, and with his being confronted with the reality of traveling 1,000 miles from home, leaving his girlfriend and his dog, he is suddenly deciding that the price is not worth it.</p>
<p>Sorry, no sympathy. These issues were all on the table when he made the ED decision.</p>
<p>Princeton accepted him in good faith that if he got their offer, he would be coming to Princeton.</p>
<p>Carolyn quoted a study earlier this week. Only 82% of those accepted ED matriculate. Only Valdez understands his financial position. People on this board don't understand his financial position. Valdez, you need to talk to your parents and see if they can really afford Princeton.</p>