<p>Thank you all for your thoughts.</p>
<p>Jamimom: you hit it right on the head. S has already decided that he is more interested in applied vs pure math. </p>
<p>As a freshman, he was competitive in computer programming at the national level (ACSL All-stars, not USACO). Last year he was a Physics Olympiad Semi-finalist. At VT, MIT and CMU, he actually put down engineering as his first interest.</p>
<p>I will be incommunicato for a bit of time. Flying to Manilla on Sunday to head an emergency engineering team to assess the infrastructure damage in that country. I will give you info when I return hopefully sometime in February.</p>
<p>jamimom -- I agree with you. life is choices. choosing a college is a great time to teach kids about the tradeoffs. I admire the choices you've made. It's not over yet. In time, when your kids reap the benefits of the educations you sacrificed for, and they respect and love you all the more for your sacrifices, your high school classmates might very well envy you.</p>
<p>texas137 -- I also agree with you. I have a kid who is very good in math. Yet, he's not what I would call a "math kid" even if he ends up as a math major. I recognize the difference and he does, too. There are many places you can go for a great education in the humanities and the sciences and engineering. There are many places to get an excellent education in math. But there are some places where those special math kids congregate and those places are -- well -- special.</p>
<p>Good luck, originaloog. Stay safe.</p>
<p>texdad, the kid that chose Texas over Harvard and is thriving....sometimes the kids do know what is best.</p>
<p>Goodspeed, originaloog.</p>
<p>Something to ponder: A stellar student at S's school chose major merit aid and perks at a college ranked 20-40 over HPYS. The student had a fabulous undergrad experience that included yearly school-sponsored travel and international internships including working in US embassies. Overall, the student was happy with her college, even though it was smaller than her ideal setting and didn't have as many high powered students as would HPYS. Students parents, including a parent who teaches at an Ivy, feel she made the right choice.</p>
<p>I am sure that she would have done well at HPYS, but none of those schools would have automatically given her the opportunities she got at the less highly ranked schools. She also would not have stood out as much.</p>
<p>Isn't it better we're humbled by our undergrad experience? I mean, that humbling isn't worth tens of thousands of dollars, but I think it's good for high school superstars to realize that they might not be superstars in the outside world.</p>
<p>Amused,
You make a good point. My S who accepted a virtually full scholarship to a tier 2, turning down 2 top 25s, could have used some humbling. Still could. Anyone whose one year of college experience taught them, "College is a waste of time. I can learn what I need to know by myself" could use humbling.</p>
<p>Both my daughters do better when surrounded by people who stimulate and challenge them. I suspect that many college age students are the same. While some students are rockets who would shine in any environment, others rise or fall to expectations.
My older daughter has been pleased to find that while she is average at her college, she is quite brilliant( IMO) out of the bubble( although she had also found that at her college she has a reputation as being responsible/ mature & with more social skills than the average Reedie, out of the bubble it is rather .....less)</p>
<p>There was a study ( I think it was mentioned in one of Loren Pope's books) that found men do better when they are near the top of their class, women, it doesn't matter. I guess male egos are more fragile.</p>
<p>One of my best friends chose a free ride at the state college over Brown...he hates it.</p>
<p>One of my good friends chose UW (Evans Scholar) over Brown. He loved it.</p>
<p>Good luck, Originaloog.</p>
<p>One of my few reservations about where my D is going that she was near the top of the entry class. I've got a streak that says she would have been better off in some ways being at the 25th percentile for the first time in her life. Otoh, the confidence she seems to have certainly isn't hurting her.</p>
<p>You know, at some point in most educational careers, a student will meet his or her Waterloo. For me it was in law school, for my wife it was a partcularly demanding prof. while she was pursuing her Masters. It was nice to face that with some maturity under my belt.</p>
<p>Best wishes, Originaloog. Let us know how things go. </p>
<p>Thanks, Sac, for the kind words. I don't really feel like I so much made my choices as I floated into them, often unaware of the implications. Families are better off knowing more of the implications of a $200K+ commitiment for college, particularly if private schools, travel, expensive ECs, and of course multiple children are in the works. It can make a big difference in quality of life. I doubt my classmates will every envy me, as many of them have had the life and the education for their kids that they want. It is not an issue with me, but I just wanted to make it clear that I am not exactly what people aspire to be or want their children to be. Few of my friends, family, former classmates, neighbors would put me down as someone to emulate, and rightfully, because it really has not been as easy life though I have had some rare rewards. And not all of the stuff was choice. But having lived tuition poor due to private school tuitions, I can tell you that it is no nirvana. We all desperately want to give our kids the "best" but sometime looking at the whole picture can temper what that best is. </p>
<p>And I can tell you that I have seen the situation Northstarmom has described many times. Kids who often have certain research or top program aspirations and get into the top schools may find that the competition for the slots for such programs at those schools is steep and they will not get those experiences. Not fun feeding off of the crumbs of those schools and consoling onesself that at least they are at a top name school, especially if the student truly wants the academic experience not just the name. Better to skim off the cream at the top at another school as it is often the same cream everywhere.</p>
<p>My cousin turned down Princeton for University of Michigan-Ann Arbor.</p>
<p>Someone from my school picked Florida State over Harvard....</p>
<p>"We read about choosing reaches, matches and safeties. Many of us should be choosing financial safeties, financial matches, and financial reaches. Financial reaches being schools where we may get enough aid to make it work. Financial safeties would be schools we definitely know we can afford."</p>
<p>Dstarks's words exemplify the approach that we are taking as my junior daughter searches for schools. I have encouraged her to look at any and all schools, but early on in the process, I help her to identify where these schools fit in with our financial picture. We will qualify for need-based aid, if the EFC calculators are any indication, and my daughter will be auditioning for merit-based awards in music. She has expressed the desire to get a job to save for college, but I find myself in the odd position of discouraging this for now...she has some ongoing medical concerns which make working difficult, and her music and theatre commitments really leave her with no "extra" time. The bottom line for her will be that we will support her application to any school, but she is aware, in advance, that when her April of decision rolls around, any school to which she is accepted from the "financial reach" group may not be do-able.</p>
<p>Despite all this, my daughter seems way ahead of many of the kids around here. When I first started reading CC, I realized immediately how inadequate our college financial planning had been. We quickly rearranged many of our investments (no more money going into her UGMA), and I have been saving aggressively ever since. Our goal is to have our EFC+5-7K saved for each year of college, and at the moment, we are on track. Yet when I get together with many of my local friends, they think I've gone overboard because "a bright kid like her will be handed money." Their mouths' to God's ear (or at least the financial aid folks), but I think I'll just keep on saving...!</p>
<p>Thanks to all who responded to my post - it's nice to get a response when you're fretting and biting your nails!</p>
<p>originaloog, excellent point about the significance of the parental role - I agree it is about far more than college decisions or money - as a single parent, I have had to be very aware of the impact of my attitudes and decisions on my son's life. Be safe at the disaster sites!</p>
<p>dude diligence, wonderfully pragmatic point of view - the phrase "table all analysis until all the facts are in" is perfect. Would you say that this exercise is denial, double-think, postponement (Scarlett O'Hara - "I'll think about it tomorrow"), or just plain optimism? "Don't worry, be happy" is where I have landed today, because I concluded that the shortfall was not insurmountable, so if the school ends up as his top choice, we will find a way to make it work. And I may dodge a bullet if his own eventual top choice (as yet unknown) happens to offer merit aid, so "never trouble trouble 'till trouble troubles you" definitely applies.</p>
<p>sillystring, the merit aid at UChi was a great gift - as you know, they only give 30 full tuition scholarships, so it really is finding the pot of gold to get one - congratulations to your daughter! My son just submitted his RD app today. I love the school and really dig Chicago, so it's among my top three choices on his list. </p>
<p>randomdad, we visited MIT - I loved the energy and the prankiness, but my son "got" right away that it wasn't for him because it is so heavily weighted towards engineering. He didn't want to be in a minority for the attention and resources of the school. Anecdotes - my very best philosophy professor had previously taught at MIT. His best friend, a full professor in the physics department, punned that the problem with the non-sciences at MIT was "you don't count." When I was escorting my Starbucks down the Infinite Hallway to the information session, a graduate student was passing me whistling. Feeling cheery and wanting to amuse myself on the long journey to the auditorium, I ventured "listen to that echo, the acoustics in this hall are unusual." He launched into an explanation about the acoustics, explaining that because of the blah blah blah and the who-knows what, the sound 50 yards away would be half a note slower. That, and the horn-rimmed glasses, made me positive that I was indeed at MIT.</p>
<p>jamimom - I can really relate to your decision to "throw caution to the winds." After following dude diligence's advice, to chill until the landscape comes into 100% focus, I may decide to just go for it (and borrow from my inheritance and home equity). </p>
<p>The school that I was referring to in my original post is Brasenose College, Oxford University. He was offered a place to read Philosophy, Psychology, and Physiology. He really seems to respect the high expectations they have for their students (e.g., a long reading list to accomplish before you arrive, a presumption that you will get right down to business and that you have a serious desire to thoroughly master the selected subject), and the instructional methods that he experienced in the NYC interview with a science tutor (intense one-on-one interaction) and the psychology test administered to all candidates for that course (open-ended questions that required interpretive reasoning and supported arguments). He even offered a rare verbal comment - "I like their style!" </p>
<p>I do have to decide if we should visit in the next few months. If he falls in love with it, perhaps my fate (scrounging for pennies) is sealed, but if he doesn't like the feel of the place, better to know before May 1. Any thoughts?</p>