<p>Yulsie, I really don't know anything about the European colleges. However at my son's prep school several of the top kids have gone to Oxford and Cambridge in the last 5 years, as I could see in the college book. My understanding is that the cost is far less than going to a comparable institution here unless your student gets a hefty merit award or you are eligible for some major financial aid. Granted, the amenities are not what you get in the US Disney World version of higher education, but the cost is correspondingly lower. I don't know where you live in the US, but there are inexpensive fares to England if you can book in advance, I know. After booking some flights for my son's auditions here in the US, I have found that going cross country to Santa Fe, Oklahoma City, Cincinnati, Detroit from the East Coast can cost as much as going to Europe. And the visit certainly can be a wonderful cultural experience for you, son and family. We did that when we went to Santa Fe and it was a memorable trip for us. and a cost I do not regret for an instant; am glad we had the opportunity to visit this gem of a city. </p>
<p>I know that the kids from my son's school love the British experience which is why there have been a number of kids who have continued to apply there. My son is considering a summer program at one of the colleges there but I think with as much as we spent on him this year and will likely be spending on him next year, he will be working double shifts this summer to accumulate a nice amount of money towards his education. Unlike my older ones, this one has enjoyed a priviliged life as we have had the money when he hit high school age and the years of scrounging are vague memories to him. It is not a good thing that he takes our ready payment of all of his EC and educational costs for granted, I can tell you.</p>
<p>ConcernedDad, Waterloo? Nah. For me, first quarter of junior year in Electrical Engineering was more like a reenactment of Pickett's Charge. (And I never did find out how many coulombs that was....)</p>
<p>Yulsie -- It is so good to see that you have reached a place of peace on this issue. This is such a difficult time for parents -- our kids often don't realize how tough! Every parent who spends time on this board wants to see his or her child achieve their dreams. After all, we spend hours here searching and researching, consulting and consoling.</p>
<p>My daughter is home right now (leaving to go back to school Sunday and I am grieving already). We had a long talk about this thread in the car yesterday. You are right that her merit scholarship was a great gift, and she is intensely aware of it. She said that in restropect, it was very important for her to have a real grasp of the financial realities before completing her applications. Although she is very happy in Chicago, she says she was comfortable with all of her schools and could have made a happy and fulfilling life for herself at any of them. So perhaps that is the key: Talk honestly with your child about what you can and cannot afford and select colleges accordingly. Then, sit back and hope for the best, but prepare to be content with whatever fate brings your way. </p>
<p>one of my friend's older brother chose WUSTL (full ride) over Penn (wharton). Now looking back on his decision he mentioned to me that he really regrets not going to wharton. Especially because he is studying business and wharton would have given him a huge advantage over WUSTL.</p>
<p>Garland, your post gave me some consolation. My parents are choosing to pay 29K(the first school year only) and possibly 44K a year for the last 3 years(depending on my father's consulting contracts) for me at Princeton over a full ride at Rutgers. I am feeling bad about this even though my parents assure me that they have been planning for this. I really want to go to Princeton, for reasons that I have already discussed with my parents, and I know that I would be unhappy at Rutgers. My parents share a similar view to yours. They feel that "fit and academic challenge" are important and that's why they are willing to support my decision. They would have supported me at any one of the top colleges but Princeton was my choice.</p>
<p>originaloog--safe travels to the Philippines. My mother and her sibs (plus their families) all live there, so my family has traveled there quite a bit.</p>
<p>Kids need to be fully aware of the financial impact of college on their families. But I also think it's important not to penalize a kid for working hard and being successful enough to get merit-aid offers. If the parents were figuring all along that they would spend x amount on college, or that they would pay for an expensive college, I think it would send a very negative message for the parents to reduce what they are willing to spend just because their kid was smart enough to get a generous merit aid offer.</p>
<p>But what I'm coming to understand is that merit aid will always mean a lesser school, so what's the chance that's a dream school for a kid that can do better? Personally, after research and thought, I've decided I'm just going to have to live lean and consider a home equity loan through college years. I do want my kids to not have regrets or what ifs.</p>
<p>Kirrcum, sometimes it does come to that. If your child gets into Princeton which has been a lifelong dream for him and it means the whole family needs to scrimp and scrape, and everyone supports this, that is one thing. But I have seen kids get it in their head that they need to go to Johnson & Wales, for instance which is a fine school but is it worth $30K vs the <$15K from state U? Just because the kid likes the school, has friends in it and the curriculum laid out the way she likes it? When the $60K over 4 years is going to really put the family into a hole? I mentioned someone who picked Wake Forest over Hopkins, another who picked Pitt over BU and those kids probably saved their families $160K over 4 years. There are kids who are offered the Morehead at UNC that are accepted at Ivies, and after checking out both options have decided that the Morehead was a better deal. Each option should be carefully weighed and as parents we need to take the adapatability of the child into consideration as well. Some kids do need certain environments--a close friend of mine whose first child did so well at state U that she felt she would never pay the outrageous private school tuitions found that with Student #2, she would be likely throwing any tuition out the window if she did not find a small, nurturing school for him. She bit the bullet and put that one in an expensive LAC that met what she perceived were his needs. Even then it was "nip and tuck" the entire 5 years it took for him to graduate, but he did. She has no regrets and feels if he had gone to State U as an 18 year old, he would be there still today as a sophomore or slinging hash at a diner. He needed every bit of the structure and personal attention that the tiny shcool she picked for him gave. The third child is doing well at State U. I do believe that the oldest one could have gotten into Northwestern or Emory or other such school< but the family had certain private financial issues that made it particularly ornerous and unwise to pay 3 private tuitions, and the fact that the daughter went to State U has made it possible for the parents to help her out in law school expenses--she is going to a top rate law school and is borrowing a goodly amount of that. Thank god she does not have any undergraduate loans. The same refrain my niece is thinking as she has accumulated $160K in medical school expenses. </p>
<p>It's just nice to have a few financial safeties and options at the end of the year and process when it comes time to make the choices. When all is said and done, many families take a deep breath and come up with the funds for the kids' top choices, but it is one thing if there are other choices there, another if you left no alternatives but the high priced schools.</p>
<p>It might mean a lesser school, but does it mean a lesser education? Maybe, I go to the lesser school and I get more individual attention; therefore, I get more opportunities to do more, meet important people and stand out? I notice that Rhode Scholars do come out of schools like the Univ. of Oklahoma and Arizona State seems to have a lot of Marshall and Truman Scholars. I don't know the answer and I do think about the same things that texas137 wrote about.
The one thing I do know is putting yourself in financial jeopardy to send a kid to college makes no sense with all the choices we have. Being well educated without a pot to **** in doesn't do it for me. Being well educated, but having to work in a career that I don't enjoy, but is more lucrative, doesn't do it for me either.
I wonder who is going to have the regrets about not going to a dream school, the kids or the parents?
If sending a kid to college doesn't have a financial impact, then sure, send the kid wherever.</p>
<p>Couldn't agree more jamimom, I will not be shelling out for the mediocre. For better or worse however, my remaining 3 headed to college think BIG! Oldest son is getting the bargain of the century as a science major at UCSD though! If only the others weren't so liberal artsy!</p>
<p>I think one of the most important gifts we can give our children is the resilence to deal with "life happens". Even if somehow you have micromanaged your lives so that your child hasnt had to experience a fractured family,physical or mental problems, has a nice house, transportation and all the goodies money can buy; at some time life is gonna smack them upside the head and if they haven't had the opportunity to develop inner resources they are gonna be more than likely flat on their back.
It is not the end of the world if they don't attend an expensive school for their BA degree. They will only regret if they don't make the most of the opportunity that they do have, and that shouldnt include taking out huge loans for a first college degree.</p>
<p>Kirmum, as an east coaster with some midwest experience, the California schools are a mystery to me. All I know about them I have learned from the Californians on this forum. Every year I would be surprised at how many UC schools make the top lists. You are fortunate to have all of those schools available to your kids at those bargain prices especially when they are considered fine academic institutions by every measure as well. In my state the options are much more limited--really State U, comm college or pay the big bucks either out of state public for a little less or the private schools. So merit awards can figure into the equation heavily when the State U does not fit the bill. Also many of the State Us back east are not such bargains as the UCs. Rutgers, Penn State, a number of those schools are not cheap. Easily $15-20K per year, as the room/board in the northeast is expensive unlike the south. And for the average student. gettining in is the big thing these days as they take less than half the kids who apply. Never mind the financial aid which is the federal package and some state loans. Very difficult to get a nice package.</p>
<p>"But what I'm coming to understand is that merit aid will always mean a lesser school, so what's the chance that's a dream school for a kid that can do better? "</p>
<p>Not necessarily. The above depends upon what a kid wants out of their education and where they apply.</p>
<p>For instance, if a kid didn't want cold Midwestern or Northeastern winters, they might make a decision to apply no further north than Wash U even though they could have HPYS potential. They might be strong enough to get merit aid from Wash U or Rice. They would be happily going to the kind of school that they felt was best for them.</p>
<p>Not everyone's dream school is HPYS. That's even true of the kids with stellar stats.</p>
<p>"Not everyone's dream school is HPYS. That's even true of the kids with stellar stats."</p>
<p>That's a true statement, and it is especially true of certain regions of the country. Last year there was one high school in my state with three girls who all aced the SAT I and the ACT, and who were taking challenging courses at a reasonably strong suburban high school here. To the best of my knowledge and belief, only one of those girls even applied to the famous few "top" schools. There are a lot of high school students, some with strong records, who like to stay in-region. (I guess we upper Midwesterners are afraid we will miss snow and that we'll get too hot in the early spring, corresponding to how southerners fear upper Midwest winters.) :) The college application market is MUCH more national than it was when I was in high school, but still not perfectly so. Our local TV station has a weekly program on "academic all-stars," featuring top high school seniors in town, and quite a few of those students don't even apply to schools that are particularly competitive.</p>
<p>"Merit aid will always mean a lesser school." Gee, that's a little general ,now isn't it? Some heavy math science schools and Midwestern, Western, and Southern schools offer merit aid that their statistically equivalent Northeastern counterparts do not. I really don't think Grinnell, Wash and Lee, Emory, Davidson, Hopkins, CalTech, or Chicago (there are others) take much of a back seat to very many (if any) non-merit institutions if you are rating undergraduate academic quality (which is all I'm concerned about). To be blunt, I really think the costs for some of the Northeastern schools is ridiculous compared to Southern or Midwestern or even Western schools of equal or greater quality. But, to each his or her own. It's (presumably) your money. Nobody is telling anybody else how to spend their money. At least I hope not. If so, I'll switch sides. LOL.</p>
<p>Jamimom, you can ballpark the cost of a UC at around $20K per year by the time the dust settles. Still a bargain compared to $40K/year but FinAId can cut that margin considerably. Qualitatively, however, the UC's are a strong group and no other state has anything like it; the mid-level UC's are stronger, imo, than the flagship campus of most states.</p>
<p>My thinking is that you need to be at the very top of the school's applicants to get merit money, so by definition, you could go to a more selective school. I have struggled to come up with a philosophy here. My personal realization is that if I can swing it, I would like for my kids to go to the schools they dream of. Not every kid has the same dream, but mine do live in a place where much attention is given to ivy league and other top rated schools. They have parents who work in fields where ivy league educations pay. It is their experience, and to be honest, it would be difficult to turn down Columbia for Tulane in their minds. </p>
<p>Dstark, I don't advocate that anyone put themselves in jeopardy to pay for college. In my case there are some loans on the horizon and I may have to choose a smaller house and take fewer vacations. Doable things if I so choose. </p>
<p>And btw jamimom, the cost for a UC is about $17K/yr. Not free, but still a bargain at the right one with the right major.</p>
<p>While the ivies and a small handful of colleges don't offer merit aid, they as far as I know do vow to meet EFC 100%.
Yes I realize the EFC can really be difficult to meet particulary if you own a small business. But for the schools with huge endowments like the Ivys and others, they are really quite generous and meeting EFC 100% seems reasonable to me for most.
Our daughter is attending a school with need based only aid, but her package is weighted more heavily towards grants than loans and while it is a tad more expensive than her next choice school which was instate public, it is manageable.
I really don't understand the students on CC and at the high school where I advise who are refusing to take out any loans at all. This is really limiting where they attend, and putting a lot of pressure on coming up with merit aid, as the schools they are looking at traditionally "gap" in their offer of aid.
While my parents and grandparents paid cash for their homes, in the 1980s when we bought ours, that wasn't doable for us. We have a mortgage but we rank a home as something worth borrowing money for. Same with an education, it is the only thing that can't be taken away from you and it seems to be worth small loans for both our daughter and ourselves.</p>
<p>"My thinking is that you need to be at the very top of the school's applicants to get merit money, so by definition, you could go to a more selective school."</p>
<p>But that doesn't mean that a more selective college must be a student's dream school.</p>
<p>" It is their experience, and to be honest, it would be difficult to turn down Columbia for Tulane in their minds."</p>
<p>I can see your point when it comes to that particular example. I have seen other top 40 schools, though, offer top candidates such incredible research, travel, mentorship and financial deals that an offer from a top Ivy paled in comparison.</p>
<p>It is amazing what some of the colleges will give extraordinary students to lure them away from places like Ivies. I honestly didn't know why students whose parents were college profs were turning down Ivies for lesser ranked schools, but after I heard about one such offer, and tracked the opportunities the student got in her college, I understood.</p>