<p>Kirmum, not all kids dream of Ivies, or even worry about where a school ranks. My son did not and chose Tulane over much higher ranked schools even though $$ was not HIS concern, and even though his parents were suggesting a different choice. On of my daughters, however, is much more concerned with prestige and would not think of making the same choices. And, NSM, it is not always about the opportunties. To me, seeing my son so happy with the choice he made is worth all the effort that went into the process, even though he is not at an Ivy or Ivy Equiv. that he could have attended.</p>
<p>NSM, the Zollman scholarships at Smith, about 5 a year, are designed as Ivy-stealing offers. They're pretty hot.</p>
<p>I know all kids don't dream ivy, but let's face it folks, kids at competitive schools in major cities have this value down pat. High achieving kids are taught to measure their success this way. I hear you Northstarmom, I'm sure there's no doubt that if kids were truly open to the best offers, they would hardly all be found at ivies. But my girls grew up on the Gilmore Girls where Rory dreamed Harvard but had a revelation that landed her at Yale. The Us News rankings are blown up and posted in the school office......and so on.........</p>
<p>And no offense on the Tulane front. Daughter's good friend has been offered a full ride there but wants to go to Dartmouth (1500 plus SAT and athletic recruit) but parents are pushing the free ride. It has to be tempting.</p>
<p>Can someone please tell me what the "S" is in HYPS? Also, if there is a free ride at a state university, how much would you think a private school in the top 20 is worth in loans over 4 years for the student, (not the parents, who are low income)? $35,000? $50,000? more? or take the free ride? Assume the kid is one who would probably be happy most places, but would value the job placement/recruitment at the end to get a job. Can't visit to check "fit", but student likes and gets on with a wide variety of people. No particular dream school except a reach that will not be affordable....</p>
<p>S stands for Stanford.</p>
<p>usmominuk - if the parents are low income, this discussion may not apply. The family will probably have attractive financial aid offers based on need, and which have nothing to do with how selective the school is or how much the school wants the student. This issue really comes up with middle class families who are too well-off to qualify for significant need-based aid, and whose kids have done well enough academically to be offered significant merit-based money by less selective colleges than a similar kid would normally choose.</p>
<p>(S = Stanford. Sometimes you see HYPSMC, including MIT and Caltech)</p>
<p>A friend of mine took a free ride though CWRU over Harvard. But, it was more than just a free ride, he was also pre-accepted into CWRU's prestegious medical program, and given a free ride though that.</p>
<p>My son just received a Tulane Distinguished Scholar scholarship ($22K/yr). He had a 3.9 GPA unweighted and 122 (on a 100 scale) weighted. Took 1 AP course in Jr. year, 3 in Sr. His SAT's were NOT stellar - he just didn't do well before or after prep (1310 was his best (710 math). He is a jazz musician, plays soccer but no standout. His essays and recommendations were very strong, he goes to an excellent small public high school in a small New England town. So, you can see, it is the mix of things. Tulane encouraged him to apply for their full scholarship, which he hadn't intended to do. So if your student in strong in certain areas, but not as strong in others, and does a good job in the application process, that can really work.</p>
<p>We visited Tulane, and you are right, they are generous. I believe the Admisstions Counselor said in the info session that almost 50% of their students receive some form of merit aid.</p>
<p>I went to prestige schools (Wellesely, Stanford) and encouraged my son to do his best as a high school student and dream high re colleges. But I tried not to superimpose my own "elite college" biases on him. As a strong student, he did look at top colleges (Stanford, Hopkins, Rice, MIT) but we also visited others (Tulane, Lehigh, Santa Clara and others). He loved Stanford, Hopkins, Rice, Tulane and Lehigh. He has received a large scholarship to Tulane and has yet to hear from Stanford (did not go EA). I don't know what he'll choose. I think he will be just as happy at either and I think, too often, we parents and the media (US News...) exert pressure toward the most elite colleges. We will certainly enjoy the financial ease of Tulane, if that's his choice, and who's to say he won't thrive better there?
My husband got his BSEE at University of New Hampshire (he did get an MSEE at Hopkins) and had an extremely successful career). There can, indeed, be too much emphasis on prestige.</p>
<p>No offense taken kirmum. My skin is much thicker than that! LOL</p>
<p>I have a friend who told her kids that if they wanted something other then a UC they better bring her a HYPS.<br>
We know a young couple in their mid 20's who are both grads. of high level schools. MIT and a well known liberal arts college. His parents paid for his education, hers paid for half. She has some huge loans. She majored in a field that her college is well known for. Unfortunately she didn't plan on living in a small town while her husband is in grad school where her job opportunities were limited in her field. They are living with his parents while he is in school and she struggles to pay some of her loans off while working at a low paying job. They just found out she is expecting a baby. She is upset that she has these loans hanging over her and is living with her inlaws. She realizes that the money she is using to pay off her loans she should be saving to pay for her future offspring to go to college. She loved her undergraduate experience but regrets at times she did not take the full ride she had been offered in the Emory, Vanderbilt level of education.</p>
<p>I appreciate everyone that has taken the time to post in this thread. I find the posts very helpful.
Jamimom, I have been reading your posts for a long time and find them very educational. Do you work in the admissions field?
jmmom, nice to have the option of going to Tulane with that huge scholarship. It shows you don't necessarily have to have a 1500 SAT score to score. And Tulane doesn't even have a soccer team.</p>
<p>No, Dstark, not really. I tutor SAT2 Writing mainly but work with many others and AP exams as well. But I also help kids with their applications and run college app weekends. I've been doing this for many years, initially just to make a few extra dollars. Though I do know a lot about some areas of college admissions, there are huge holes in my knowledge as I am self taught and have not systematically gone over the process. As a result, I do not advertise myself as a consultant and am limited in many ways when I do work with kids in admissions. I worked primarily with Asian families and my business grew from word of mouth. I am not going to be doing this any more after this cycle as I need to spend more time with my little ones. The business has grown more than I ever expected. Because things change so much in the college admissions field, I spend a lot of time researching things on the internet and love switching to this site as a little relief as the internet shows me so much that I don't know and I find things here that I do know! I like to share my information with others so this is a perfect outlet for me. I also have a lot of kids (well, some are not really kids anymore) and am going through this process for the fifth time this year not to mention many private schools admission processes since we moved so many times. I did once work in an admissions office of a college but as a lowly clerk paid little above minimum wage. I do want to say that thing have really accelerated in the college application process. Had things been this hot 15 years ago, I wouldn't have been so short on money back then.</p>
<p>Jamimom, the next three years are going to be huge in the admission field (So many kids). Your services are really going to be needed. But, I understand, your own kids should come first. How much can a smart kid who is not a reader up is SAT verbal score from soph year to senior year if he has a tutor? Any idea? I should add the kid got a 540 verbal has a soph.</p>
<p>"Prestige or Scholarship?" My D will pick both. She will pick (primarily) from those schools that offer substantial merit aid and are prestigious top fifty schools. Several schools that offer merit aid to at least some of their students are listed by collegeboard as having a spot in their top twenty (ranked by their scoring , both on Verbal and Math), far higher scores than the Georgetown's, Haverford's, Bowdoin's and Colgate's (all excellent schools but certainly no better or more prestigious than several merit schools scoring higher) . </p>
<p>My position with D has been consistent throughout-if it is a non-scholarship school there has to be an objective reason that requires your attendance there over a school that has available scholarships. So far only two schools that she is considering have jumped that bar . Will there be more? Probably. It's still relatively early for us.</p>
<p>Do some of you really believe prestige ends at HYP? Because if you go any further you'll start running headlong into schools with higher stats and higher "rankings" that are merit schools, again- at least to a few of their students. I guess I'm more easily impressed. There are probably fifty or more schools I would classify as "prestigious". But as usual, that is just my opinion and I am willing to learn.</p>
<p>I went from a 600 to a 740 on verbal from spring of junior year to fall of senior year with just a simple prep class. It wasn't even that good a class - no homework assigned or anything. I think familiarity with the test helps a lot.</p>
<p>curmudgeon, which schools do you like so far that give merit aid? Can you provide a link that lists schools that give very good merit aid?
CUlater, nice jump.</p>
<p>Reading is the most natural way to increase the SAT1, reading books rich in language and vocabulary. But these test can be taught and learned as well. You basically have the kid take the test under test conditions (as close as possible). You go over the answers one by one and make sure he knows why he missed the particular one, and if he is weak in the concept behind the question, review that. Then a few days later, you give him the very same test. And repeat the process, until that test is at 100%. You then move to another version of the test and repeat. There are techniques for dealing with various issues and problem, certain vocabulary rules and wordlists, but the repeated "washing" method works well. Many of the Asian "gakus" use this method and it is very effective. Especially over time. Most of us have to balance the use of time to increase the test scores over better use of the time. For my girls, I felt it was too much of a loss of who they were to put in the time to raise the test scores. For my current senior, since he was homebound for a while, I felt it was the best use of the time he was stuck here and he was such a busy fellow naturally, that it didn't hurt him to spend some time actually studying, even something as mundane as the SAT. </p>
<p>Yes, I do what is going to happen in the next few years. But with the changes in the SAT and because of the the increase in the college bound population with more kids competing for a small group of schools, those who are working as consultants need to truly have national knowledge and some formal inroads in the process, neither of which I have. I know some schools very, very well, but know little or nothing about the vast majority of the more than 2000 schools out there. In order to make the next step, I would need to put in a lot of time which I just don't have. I just fell into this. I am finding that more and more kids are looking at more options outside of regional ones because of the competition for limited spots at those colleges with good reputations and considered good deals. This requires extensive knowledge and research. I am doing the research and can barely keep up.</p>
<p>Jamimom, thanks for the technique. I like it. No wonder the UCs wanted to abolish the SAT. Studying does work.
I know what you mean about keeping up. Like most parents on this CC, this whole college process is becoming a hobby of mine. I'm amazed how little I know after having already gone through the process. I guess if it is a paying job, it is imperative that you do keep up.</p>