Breaking news success story in the arts: Ds just got off the phone with a friend who today inked a songwriting publishing deal! So excited. They say it’s a 10-year town, and this guy is right at that mark, spending much of that time fronting a band while writing and doing odd jobs. Ds was in one of his videos. lol
The way the deal is structured he only makes a mint if a song is sold, of course, but this first year of a four-year contract he’ll be making a little more than ds makes now at his odd jobs. The difference is this guy is being paid to write music, which is what ds wants, and he’ll have a company helping him get his work out to labels and artists. He sent ds a song that’s about to be shopped to a couple of big names you’d know if you know pop music (or you follow celebrity coupling/breakups!). Ds and this guy have collaborated on a song that I think is a HIT, and now that this guy’s got a publishing deal, that ups the chances that it’ll get shopped around. YEA!
Is hiking, skiing or mountaineering a more productive use of time than golfing? It’s a matter of perspective.
At a tech company where I worked, a group used to have regular bike rides during lunch break. Possible downsides include cost of bike, inhaling pollutants from cars, and risk of getting hit by cars.
I went on a ~10 mile hike on PCT this weekend. I ran into a rattlesnake that was resting motionless on the trail. Had I not been looking carefully, I could have easily stepped on it and been bitten. I’m sure the 1+ hour drive to the trail was not good for the environment.
When I was a kid, I broke multiple bones while skiing.
There are risks and downsides with almost any hobby/interest, the key is striking a healthy balance of the hobby/interest and other activities. Most activities are probably not the most productive use of a person’s time or optimal form of exercise, but they can still be enjoyable and could theoretically develop connections with people from work.
I said golfing may be unproductive. It may be productive for some to cultivate their relationships with their clients who are avid golfers.
However, the biggest problem with golf is the water resource these golf courses need. In many Western states (and many places around the world), the availability of water is no longer assured. Some states, including CA, are contemplating restrictions on water usage by homeowners. If they are to implement these restrictions (which seems to be a question of “when”, not “if”), they can’t leave out the golf courses, both public and private.
I know people making a living doing a variety of things in the arts (sculpture, painting, dance, musicians, writing - pretty much everything except I don’t really know any theater people well) - many do something else on the side or did for many years or do something aside from only creative work and some obviously make more money/are more successfully than others but they’ve all managed to support themselves and in most cases a family (sometimes with a spouse also in the arts, sometimes with a spouse in a different field) but they are all surviving and no one is/was being supported by their parents. I think the idea of how much you need to live well is skewed on this site.
I agree with you there, but that’s a whole 'nother off-topic discussion. Although probably solveable.
Again, if you enjoy golfing, surfing, rock climbing, bicycling, tennis, pickleball, axe throwing, spelunking or whatever, it’s not unproductive, IMO, if it gets someone off the couch and makes them happy.
We had an artist at our assembly today, which made me think of this thread.
This guy is very talented, introduced the kids to international pottery, made a vase on his potter’s wheel and allowed the kids to help, etc.
He has a studio where he creates his products, sells them, takes orders etc. He also teaches on a college campus and travels to schools to do assemblies.
People with talent, drive, motivation etc can do well.
One of my friends’ D’s liked surfing for her outlet. Her H also surfs. They also enjoy skiing and snowboarding.
My boss in my lawfirm paid for golf lessons for all of us associates and gave us time off to attend them. We mostly never got very good but did golf with the firm a few times and could have golfed with clients. I also was given a set of golf clubs and a bag after a spectacular settlement I obtained.
A dentist several years back, when asked about the best toothpaste for kids, said whatever they will use. I think the same applies for exercise. It can be a great form of exercise but it you aren’t interested in it, won’t work well for you. Different people have different preferences in terms of exercise. Some need variety. Some can stick with a smaller rotation of exercises for a long period of time. Whatever gets you there.
I have never viewed walking as exercise. Better than sitting on a couch, sure. But unless you are climbing or walking at a very brisk pace (to approach running) and preferably both, I have never counted it as exercise. Different people think differently.
Golf to me is a great way to ruin a nice walk. I tell people I retired from golf 10 years ago. Though I haven’t played in at least 15 years. Never found it enjoyable. I know people who love it though.
Any form of activity carries with it certain risks. I know people who gave up snow skiing because they fear blowing out a knee. Knock on wood I have avoided serious injuries skiing but continue to do it but less often now that my kids moved away. Have flipped over handle bars and had other wipeouts on bikes. No serious injuries sailing though the bigger the boat the less exercise it is.
And just like I think parents should allow their kids to make their own choices with respect to careers, majors, etc., I think activities should be similar. Expose your kids to various activities and let them decide what interests them. Same for exercise. They may or may not take same approach that works for you.
Our school district didn’t require kids who participated in sports to take PE. But they continued to have the kids play various sports in PE. These were kids who already were not interested in sports. To me it would have made more sense to work with cardiovascular and strength training (something they could use going forward) rather than very shallow knowledge (and even more shallow skills) in sports they will never play one time after PE is over.
I agree!
I also think that the definition of success on this site is skewed toward financial success. For my kids, my wish for their success is that they are able to pursue what they love and support a lifestyle that works for them and eventually their families if so desired. They do not necessarily need to be wealthy.
I also think that people who have not lived with musicians/artists have difficulty understanding why someone would choose to pursue something which is so insecure. The way I describe it is that being a musician is not really a job, it is actually who that person is. So to insist that that person have a job as a banker or an engineer for financial success or stability is often not feasible. And many in the audience of a fabulous concert or show do not fully understand the incredible hours of work per day for decades that performing artists put in to be at that high level. I guess it is because they make it look so easy! So asking talented musicians/performers to pursue a steady income profession and do music “on the side” is also not often feasible.
Do I worry that my kids won’t be able to support themselves? Never. They are smart, resourceful people as well as being passionate about music, helping others and making the world a better place.
A more accurate statement may be that your sense of what you need to live well seems different (skewed is a value judgment; who are we to judge what someone should want?) from what other people on this forum seem to think. Wouldn’t you say?
Actually I’m not sure I would agree. When people discuss starting salaries as inadequate that are more than I made until I was middle-aged (and are more than median annual income for all earners) I think that is skewed. I don’t necessarily put a negative connotation on that but I think it’s skewed. People can support a child and live very well (travel, music lessons, organic food) on less than six figures a year - ask me how I know .
^^^THIS!!!
For my daughter in the performing arts, we NEVER discussed “what do you want to major in when you go to college?” We knew from a very young age. Theater and music are part of her being, who she is. She’d been doing it her whole life and was passionate about it and considered it her raison d’être. She went to college at age 16 in fact, directly entering a professional degree program in her field. She knew what she wanted to pursue without any wavering. I cannot imagine suggesting to do otherwise when this was a huge part of her identity. After college, she indeed went into the field professionally, though has 3 significant different facets of her work, and in that respect, I might not have predicted she would have three related professions, as she trained in college for only one of them, and just happens to be good at the other 2 aspects of her career and is paid to do them (all are in her field).
I feel exactly the same! Kid is driven and resourceful and passionate about her art field(s) and making an impact on society and that has taken her to where she is now.
Thankfully, society does have people who pursue these professions as we need them too.
I also want to add that I have no fear that my daughter won’t support herself. She already works (on top of a rigorous school schedule and 5-6 days of dance classes per week) and never asks me for money. I don’t think it’s ever occurred to her that she wouldn’t support herself after college nor is she under any illusions that I’m going to support her (as an older parent I’m hoping to retire once she graduates in 2026 and she knows that).
Umm, did I tell you how to live your life? I don’t think I did. I have no thoughts whatsoever how you or your kids live their lives nor is there anything in my post that suggests I do. I am simply offering the opinion that very few people make as much money as some on this thread seem to see as a basic minimum and many of them live very nice lives. I would hate to see a kid think there is only one side to this argument. In my opinion the world would be a much poorer place (and not in the financial sense) if everyone majored in engineering or pre-med or became investment bankers. Great for those who love it, but thank goodness we also have arts and humanities majors. I’m done now.
Hmmm. I didn’t perceive that comment as telling anyone how to live their life, merely that they found certain views skewed.
At any rate, folks all over this forum get told how to live their lives. Artists are being told to do something more practical, or financially secure. On this very thread, low income people were told they MUST NOT major in the humanities. And so on.
When someone thinks their perspective that someone else’s perspective is skewed is objective (as opposed to simply being a value judgment on their part), at that point, clearly the first party is telling the second party how the second party should live their life.
.