<p>I saw from the various strategy consulting firms that they have two separate teams at Michigan: one for ross, and one for non-ross. Is there going to be a huge difference in terms of recruitment? I'm a sophomore transfer who's interested in doing Mechanical Engineering + Economics(with the goal of eventually doing some strategy consulting). Would it be better if I did Engineering + Ross Business? Is that even possible for me as a transfer?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>Mistasuggs</p>
<p>A couple of thoughts:
<p>I just finished with junior recruiting, and am going to intern with one of the big 3 this summer. I think only Bain has a different recruiting team for engineering. The major difference is the access to resources; in Ross you have peer counselors to do cases with you, and you take many classes that indirectly prepare you for the interview. That is why despite many engineers getting interviews, none of them got offers (this year 8 people got offers in MBB and PwC, and all of them were business students)</p>
<p>Oh, so does Bain hire a lot of Michigan Engineers? I’m really confused with this hype about undergraduate business schools… isn’t the point of consulting problem solving? Isn’t that where Engineers excel? It makes sense for them go to after MBA students, but running after BBA students is beyond me… or that’s just me. According to Michigan Engineering’s website, Ross + Engineering is certainly possible?</p>
<p>[Undergraduate</a> Degree Options | Michigan Engineering](<a href=“http://www.engin.umich.edu/academics/undergrad/degreeoptions.html]Undergraduate”>http://www.engin.umich.edu/academics/undergrad/degreeoptions.html)</p>
<p>If you’re a sophomore transfer you’d have to apply to Ross next year and then stay for a fifth year in college. Ross doesn’t really accept outside transfers and you have to spend at least two and a half years in the business school to graduate.</p>
<p>As far as recruiting goes, Ross students are probably the best problem solvers in the school and that’s pretty much what they teach you to do in the b-school. Almost all my Ross classes have been heavily focused on big group projects that are very time intensive and teach you how to solve problems and work efficiently. Engineers are very technically sound and there’s a place for them in the corporate world, but Ross teaches completely different things and it’s obviously a thousand times more business focused, which recruiters love. Ross students have the easiest time getting consulting internships and jobs; not to say you couldn’t do it from engineering but you’d have to network independently and you would be competing against a lot more people for far fewer spots.</p>
<p>Also as far as MBA and BBA recruiting goes, the Ross BBA is ranked a lot higher than the Ross MBA and the curriculum is very similar between the two. It makes sense for companies to hire BBA’s considering they’re cheaper, younger, and still have the potential to go get an MBA somewhere even better and really be an asset long-term.</p>
<p>Ross students are probably the best problem solvers at Mich? I can’t imagine how that’s possible. How can they possibly be stronger, on average, than Engineering students who have to master incredibly difficult math and physics concepts? I’m sure there are difficult challenges in the business curriculum, but none that inflict even near the pain that Engineering problem sets and labs do.</p>
<p>My vote for best problem solvers are probably the Taubman architecture students - they take a wide range of disparate requirements and desires, then provide a solution that is not only technically efficient and cost effective, but also beautiful!</p>
<p>maizeandblue, Ross MBA is extremely respected by the Big 3. That’s thanks to the programs General Management and Strategy Management reputation. Only a handful of MBA programs place more MBAs in the Big 3 than Ross, and most of those (like HBS, Wharton, Columbia, Kellogg, Chicago) are significantly larger than Ross. </p>
<p>Ross’ MBA program is not ranked as high as the BBA program because t the undergraduate level, only Wharton, Sloan, Haas, Stern and McIntire can effectively compete with Ross. At the graduate level, you can add HBS, Stanford, Kellogg, Booth, Columbia and Yale SOM. So Ross goes from being a definite top 5 BBA program to being a definite top 15 MBA programs. However, the programs is highly regarded at both the undergraduate and graduate levels.</p>
<p>By the way, for reference’s sake, last year, Ross MBA placed 40 graduates in the Big 3, compared to 10 BBA graduates.</p>
<p>Indeed, my concern is whether or not I have an avenue into consulting through U-M as an Mechanical Engineering/Economics major. I greatly value the technical depth and problem solving ability engineering would provide me and the scope that Economics would provide me. I see it as an impeccable combination that certainly surpasses a business school curriculum(at the undergraduate level), but I’m just concerned about recruitment. What do you guys think? Is it still possible to break into Consulting through the engineering path? I wouldn’t mind working for a bb bank as well(I’m well aware the two fields are very different).</p>
<p>Mistasuggs, for the careers you aspire to (IB and MC), you really should be considering Ross. The CoE and LSA are recruited, but most major firms focus on Ross because that is where the vast majority of Michigan students interested in those two industries are localized. This said, my advice is to focus on your education first. If you feel like a double major in ME and Econ is best for you, go for it. Even if you do not get a job with a major BB IBank or a Big 3 MC firm, you will definitely find great jobs out of college and will eventually be able to find your way into one of those two industries you seem to want to join.</p>
<p>Thank you Alexandre, your words are encouraging. I guess this places me in a position to run after MC, BB, and even high-tech defense jobs. I couldn’t ask for more. I’m going to stick to my decision by double majoring in ME and Econ. The core skillset I learn is more important to me than any single recruitment. That being said, I’m fairly confident I can network externally outside of Ross as well. I’ve been doing that for awhile now here at NYU(I transferred out of Stern for the reasons I’ve mentioned above, and it has not been a problem getting in touch with many great business contacts).</p>
<p>Mistasuggs, have you considered private schools with no undergraduate business schools? Schools like Penn, Dartmouth, Columbia, Duke, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern allow you to double major in Engineering and Economics plus stand out immensely since consulting firms that visit these schools consider engineers to be at the top of the pecking order for recruitment. All of these schools are pretty hard to transfer into but you might stand a chance at Vanderbilt since it seems transfer friendly.</p>
<p>I believe this would put you in a position to study the subject that you want and get the job you desire. However, if you have already committed to Michigan, then this whole post is irrelevant I suppose.</p>
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I would add Darden, Fuqua, and Tuck but remove Yale. Yale SOM is not quite as good as these other schools with regards to consulting placement</p>
<p>I have not committed to Michigan. I have been admitted to Michigan, but have not committed. You and I think alike, I have applied to exactly Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Columbia, Penn, and Northwestern. Those decisions come out in Mid-May, so that’s when I’ll be making my final decision. However, the strength of Michigan’s ME is quite appealing. Is Vanderbilt really a target school for the Big 3 MC firms? I’ve always thought Vanderbilt gets overlooked.</p>
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<p>In the context of also making the client believe that you are worth several hundred dollars an hour to them… people skills are also very, very important to successful consultants. And as someone else pointed out, they are usually solving business problems, not specific engineering technical problems. I think that is why engineers are not getting hired often by companies like Bain at Michigan. Ross polishes up those people skills and builds deep business skills, which are most important in the consulting world.</p>
<p>Also agree with the assessment that Ross BBA has a lot less competition from other top schools than the MBA program has. But a Ross BBA is still a very good degree to have!</p>
<p>I feel I’m certainly “polished” enough to participate in the business world. I’ve lived in NYC for around 7 months now and I’ve participated in numerous networking events. I feel as though I don’t need school to teach me how to interact with high net-worth clients, I certainly can, and did, well on my own. So, would an Engineering degree + fantastic people skills(that I develop by myself, because I actively try everyday to be more sociable) make me marketable?</p>
<p>Mistasuggs, if admitted into Columbia and Dartmouth you will have a difficult decision to make. Engineers and Econ double majors at those two universities are recruited as heavily as Ross students, and more heavily than LSA or CoE students at Michigan. As such, if you really want to major in Engineering and Econ, I think Columbia and Dartmouth would be better options than Michigan CoE and LSA. </p>
<p>Penn Engineers/Econ majors are recruited about as heavily as those at Michigan. Like Michigan, Penn has a top rated Business school which attracts the bulk of IBanking and MC recruiting. That is not to say that they do not also recruit Penn Engineers and Econ majors, but like at Michigan, those non-Business majors will face more competition for fewer positions. </p>
<p>Michigan Engineering/Econ trumps Vanderbilt and matches Northwestern where IBanking and MC are concerned. However, Northwestern offers two very interesting Kellogg Certificate programs that could give you a leg up, so that is worth considering.</p>
<p>Hmm, I didn’t know we were allowed to dual major across SEAS and Columbia College. Alexandre, do you think Michigan CoE + LSA would be a better option than NYU CAS(Math-Econ)? Like I said, I value the skillset Engineering provides, but from a pure recruiting standpoint, which one is better? Please note I’ve transferred out of Stern because I do not believe in an undergraduate business curriculum. I want the best education possible, and the best recruitment possible(with this understanding, I know Dartmouth + Columbia are my best options). In the case I don’t get admitted, should I stay at NYU CAS and pursue Math+Econ or go to Michigan and do ME + Econ?</p>
<p>That’s a tough question. How happy are you at NYU. If you are happy and made good friends, I would not recommend leaving. I do not think Michigan CoE/LSA would be a much better stepping stone than NYU CAS. On the other hand, if you are not particularly attached to NYU, transferring to Michigan may be worth it.</p>
<p>I guess then it’s in my best interest to wait and see where else I’m admitted. Though I have made good friends here, I don’t particularly love NYU. I would still rather have a more traditional college experience. Alexandre, it’s true though that at Michigan I would be playing a much less riskier game right? If I don’t get recruited into the BB or Big 3, I still have a chance to work for a defense company or some other high tech firms, whereas at NYU I wouldn’t. What do you think?</p>