Difficult Decision: Withdrawing Child From School

<p>I’d worry about a student working 15-19 hours a week and trying to take a full load when she has difficulties with academics; I don’t think dropping a course is at all surprising. (19 hours/week is half-time!) Perhaps she should not be working quite so much?</p>

<p>Yes marite that is a good point regarding the core which includes alot of philosopy and theology. She really struggles with this type of subject matter. If would have been great had the school allowed her to take some of those classes while at home but they would not. She attends a Catholic university and they must take all of those credits at the university.
This is one of the reasons why husband and I feel she would be better off at a state U close to home without the philosophy or theology.</p>

<p>By the way she does not like Rutgers (feels it is way too big) may not make it into TCNJ which leaves Ramapo, Monclair, Kean and I may be leaving others out. I don’t think she would get into Ramapo because her major has very little room for transfers. She really likes the small school feel. She really enjoys being with people from the mid west. I have noticed that her two friends (the one that comes in to see her was originally from the mid west and the other kid that she likes from town is also a mid west transplant. The friends she had at school that she still communicates with are not from New Jersey and also are more small town type of kids. She cant seem to bond with Jersey kids-I dont know why.</p>

<p>Owlice- I was very concerned about the hours she was working as well but she was spending most of her free time partying at school and I think the job seems to ground her. If I thought she would spend those hours studying I would agree compleatly, it is not in her to do that. Remember what I said, she is not an academic.</p>

<p>Blossom–yes if she went back to school it would mean she would probably not have a therapist. The school does not have a decent therapist and the town is not such a place where she could travel safely to get to one.</p>

<p>Regarding her brothers insight—one son feels she does not belong in college at all because she does not enjoy learning/studying but feels that it is important for her to complete it in anyway possible
son2—similar attitude as son one except that he feels we need to let het either sink or swim academically on her own. (he may not get the whole emotional end of it)
son3—send her back but realize she is probably not going to graduate
all three sons feel that she should start over at a state school (for the reasons of it being closer to home and not the big investment in terms of money)</p>

<p>Northstarmom-- I always value an opinion from you. Do you think I should compleatly let go of any help? She gets up on her own everyday, does her laundry, makes her breakfast,goes to school and work. I have given a tad bit of assistance with school but not much to speak of. I dont know what the grades will be but if she were to return to her old school the paperwork must be sent in two weeks before her grades will be posted.</p>

<p>momma-three, do you think any of the special interest programs at Rutgers would be a match? Douglass College offers housing aimed specifically for female transfer students.</p>

<p>I think finishing out the yr. at the CC sounds like a good plan. It gives her more time to get her feet under her and to consider another college. S2’s friend finished freshman yr at a private with a 1.9. He is at our CC this yr. and plans to transfer to S2’s regional state u. next yr. S2 has another friend who did well enough at a private but just didn’t like the school, who transferred to S2’s sch. this yr. It’s not at all uncommon.
Maybe a fresh start at a new place would be good for her.<br>
Are there some smaller state u’s outside of NJ that would interest her?</p>

<p>Congratulations momma for the upswing in your D’s life! I would be leaning toward keeping her where she is now and have her continue getting stronger. I do wonder why she wants to go back to her old school. Where is the draw when things were not working out and she was partying all the time? If she insists this is the place she must go, what does she say when you ask her how things will be different this time? I’d really try to get inside her head and see if what she is thinking makes sense. </p>

<p>As one previous poster asked, I would also weigh what the therapist recommends. It sounds like your D has been helped significantly with him/her in a short time, and this person’s opinion about what your D can handle and where she will thrive is another important input.</p>

<p>I agree with her staying home for now. If she could get into TCNJ, I think you would find that there is some good personal attention available there. What about some of the PA state schools which would be also close to home for her? (not Penn State or Pitt)</p>

<p>Does it have to be in NJ? Could she attend one of the SUNY schools? She would not be required to take the philosophy and theology classes that seem to give her so much trouble, and she still would be fairly close to home.</p>

<p>To me, having her at a college or in a town with no therapist, or limited access to a mental health professional, is a recipe for disaster. Recovering from depression isn’t like getting over an ear infection or strep, i.e. you had it last week but now you’re better, it’s over, you finished all the little pills in the bottle so you’re done.</p>

<p>I know many high functioning, happy, successful adults who have battled or continue to battle depression. And then there are the ones (in my own family, and I’m sure we all know them) who can’t hold down a job, have a rocky track record with relationships, never seem to be able to settle into a role in their community or families.</p>

<p>So if your D is on the path to recovery, I would assume that maintaining a relationship with some mental health professional will be part of her journey for a few more years.</p>

<p>If she is home for this fall term and doing well (is that correct, this is the first term home?) I would think she needs the remainder of this school year to “own” the changes and be strong in them.
There is no reason why, if she may be able to either return to the original school or move on to a state school, that she could not complete transfer applications for a few schools and see how things feel in the spring.</p>

<p>I have a kid who did a bit of crash and burn, not clinically depressed, but a there was some situational depression at having to withdraw and figure out how to finish. I would say it took a good year from withdrawal to being her old self again…having made lots of progress along the way in baby steps.</p>

<p>I agree that she needs the full year to get back her bearings. Eventually, she should seek a college that is not too far from home and where she can do well–meaning not taking the kind of core courses which gave her so much trouble. They are not essential to her academic success.</p>

<p>First-- just I feel for you. </p>

<p>Also, I really agree with the others in terms of therapy. If she has found a therapist she really connects with, at this age, that can be the most important ingredient in getting her to the point where she could go back to school and succeed. FWIW. But, also, good luck. It’s not easy being the mom in this situation and I hope you are making sure you do things to take care of yourself, as well.</p>

<p>She really enjoys going to her therapy appointments, and has built a relationship with her.The therapist appears to be of the thinking that she could benefit from another semester at home but also said that by the end of January she may be able to return. It is more of a wait and see.</p>

<p>I also think she is benefiting from the support she is receiving from her dad and I in terms of helpful hints with strategies and also help with reviewing some work. We have not done alot but we are always available to her and she knows that. I want her to always be secure in that we are here for her (even though she had been very ugly to us not long ago). She is above all just wanting to be “normal” as she would put it and to her that means being away at college. Still my heart tells me we should give it the time to see her strong and also to trully recognize that her worth as a person has nothing to do with her ability to succeed in college. It is hard to really get that across when all the siblings have received such accolades for their success. I dont know if there are any families with a situation with multiple siblings where one sibling does not possess the same abilities or desires, but believe me this is really tough. My other kids are all very loving toward us and their sister but I also sense that they are getting a little tired of all the “spoon feeding” we have done. That they may get when they are parents. I remember my mother telling me something when she was having trouble with one of my siblings many years ago. She said “-----” you have five fingers each representing one child, if one of those fingers are broken the whole hand hurts. I got the point then but I feel point now.</p>

<p>I have walked a mile in your shoes OP so I feel for you. Follow your mother’s intuition and then back that up with the therapist. You sound like you think it might be best for her to wait another year. If she is showing up to work and going to class, then she is making good progress but if you have any nagging doubts about her stability if she returns to the private school, then don’t send her back yet. When she does return to the CC or a four year, she can likely be classified as a full time student for insurance and other purposes, but she can take a reduced work load (i.e. 6 or 9 units instead of 12 per semester) due to health problems or LD.</p>

<p>And my mother told me that you’re only as happy as your most miserable child and of course, I didn’t believe her until I had teenagers!!</p>

<p>The phenomenon you describe is fairly common- the academically talented siblings think the parents “buy in” to the other siblings “stuff”; the one who struggles thinks that everyone thinks less of him or her because things don’t come easily; the parents work hard to praise each child for their unique talents but someone is usually left with the dregs even with the best of intentions.</p>

<p>I think you keep reminding your D that everyone is given certain innate gifts and talents, everyone struggles with their limitations, and that the mark of a really great person is the ability to channel the gifts and either accept the limitations or work around them.</p>

<p>I’ve written here before about the leader of my religious community. He was and is not a scholarly type (we’ve had many of those, and most of the congregants feel most comfortable with that model.) This one is… to put it kindly… not a “book learner”. It has taken me a while to really understand him. He wasn’t a A student, and academics were not his thing, although he has both undergrad and grad degrees in pretty tough programs in order to get his ordination.</p>

<p>But he is a genius with people in distress. He spends evenings and late nights at the local hospice just being there for people who are dying of all sorts of painful things. He is the first phone call for many in the community- even not of our congregation- when a kid is in trouble. He comforts people who are mourning terrible losses- children, teenagers, sometimes after long and terrible illnesses, and sometimes those freak accidents where parents sob and beg that god would take them instead.</p>

<p>And he is just a superb listener and counselor and always finds a way to relieve some of the anguish- even for skeptics and people who don’t want a lot of “god talk”. And he is sensitive to people who just need a friend and someone to listen to them, even if they don’t need the advice and the counseling and the comfort.</p>

<p>So knowing him, and having met some of his more academically accomplished siblings, has given me a real perspective on the gifts that people are given. Sometimes the C students get A+'s in being human beings, and you and your H deserve a lot of credit for being there for what is surely your most challenging child right now!</p>

<p>It is funny you should say that Blossom because my daughter has a smile that could turn a stone to flesh and a heart that can empathize with anyone. She is a person with heart that is meant to do something very special. I remember when she went door to door in her teen years collecting donations from people in our town…no one could refuse her. She is the recipient of presidential service awards for her charitable work and, she thrives in any work environment. I believe in her, but she needs to believe in herself. She also needs to forgive herself for some mistakes (I made many too at her age) and decide to change the things that she can change. I just found it so interesting how the story of your religious leader was mentioned because I see my daughter in a very similar way. She just needs to understand and accept that the talents she has could lead to the most enriched and satisfied life, if she will only see the value in herself and not in everyone else. I love and admire the abilities she has and she can genuinely make people happy just by being in her presence.</p>

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<p>It sounds like she is dealing with some of the immediate issues (behaviors) effectively and you and your husband’s relationship with her is improving her mood.</p>

<p>However, much work needs to be done on the self-image and measuring herself in terms of her siblings. I’m still hearing the desire to get the degree (as opposed to an interest in what can be done with the learning - big difference) which her siblings have.</p>

<p>She will never be happy trying to be someone she is not. I’m not sure what her program of study is, but it sounds like it is in the health-sciences which is ideal for a person with the personality you describe. However, to be truly useful and a competant care-giver, she needs to appreciate how the things she learns in the classroom directly impact her ability to be successful (and ultimately happy) in her career. </p>

<p>She has to understand that the piece of paper get you the interview, but it is what she learns to do that gets her the job and that sense of importance and validation she is desperately seeking.</p>

<p>And even if she gets the degree, she will find that it doesn’t really resolve the competitive issue with her siblings. The competition will simply move to something else.</p>

<p>And speaking of the siblings, clearly they are neither understanding nor sympathetic to her state of mind and their, “stop babying her” attitude that I sense only feeds her desire to get this piece of paper (and thus their approval that she’s grown up). </p>

<p>I have a special needs kid myself (older brother of goaliegirl) and understand the concept as a parent of focusing on the individual potential of each child. I am grateful that goaliegirl does not express the same misunderstanding of the needs of her brother that your other children express towards your daughter. It sounds like they need to do some growing up themselves and get over your being a mother to all of your children.</p>

<p>As to the therapist… Is she onto the above line of thought? I know the therapist should start with the immediate (which it sounds like she is doing a great job of BTW), but you might schedule your own session to discuss this broader issue so the therapist has a better idea of where to take her therapy. You might throw in the idea of the therapist working with the siblings (as a group) to educate them in what she is doing for their sister and how they can help their sister get to where she needs to be. </p>

<p>I realize these are very big and time consuming things, which suggests that it is best to delay as best you can her leaving home until these issues are addressed.</p>

<p>I realize that your daughter may not yet realize the root cause of her problems (as described above). I think once she becomes aware that therapy ultimately is about addressing the underlying issue(s) and what hers are, she will be OK with spending the time to fix things. That is why I ask where her therapist is in the treatment.</p>

<p>So glad to hear things are progressing. Keep us posted with her progress and your thoughts on our feedback.</p>

<p>Goaliedad up until the last five months her brothers had not realized there were mental health issues so I can’t really blame them for their perception of their sister as being lazy and unmotivated. As I said earlier, they are very loving and good to their sister better than most brothers are. Don’t forget our older son has been away for four years and our other two have been gone for three years. When they are home they are working full time and in their free time she is always included in everything they are doing. She managed to fool them but then again that was what she wanted to do. They see their sister as uncapable of some of the things she has done, which I believe is understandable since they are not here that much. Not one of the older three has ever made her feel inferior in any way but they were annoyed when the partying was going on at college and she was “throwing our money away”. Sons were upset that mom was working late into the evening and weekends to send her to the private university. They saw her as being ungrateful. If I sound like I am defending them I guess I am, but you must also understand that the kids also saw our oldest son who is chronically ill (serious illness) live a very determined and productive college life. They believe her depression is in part due to her inability to focus on herself and what she can do. They are away too much at this point to have anything much to do with the solution.</p>

<p>momma-three,</p>

<p>I didn’t mean to say her brothers directly had anything to do with her developing this problem. You are right to defend their actions. </p>

<p>However, even though they were not the cause of the problem, they need to be a part of the solution. Your daughter has been trying to compete with them even if they don’t realize her motives or intent. She wants them to be proud of her and view her as grown up. They need to let her know they respect her and love her no matter what she chooses to pursue or achieves in life.</p>

<p>And their initial reaction of being upset with her and surprised at her actions are normal. They don’t know what she is thinking, as she can still fool them with the charm. </p>

<p>The point here is that they need to know not only what she is doing, but why she is doing it and how they can help to diffuse her destructive thinking and the resultant behavior.</p>

<p>Being at a distance adds to the challenge. Her perception of their picture of her was built up over years. Distance and infrequency of contact will make it more difficult (but not impossible) for them to change her perceptions. </p>

<p>They just need to know that when they make contact with her, they need to understand that often the charm is her insecurity manifesting itself and that they need to give her reasons (talk about what she is accomplishing but more importantly how she feels about doing her thing) for her to feel secure in herself.</p>

<p>No this is not about mean, insensitive brothers, but a child who did not know how to adapt to a family culture where academic achievement was interpreted as the primary way to love and praise. To fix the problem, changing her perception of the family culture is one thing. Changing the family culture itself would also go a long way to helping as well.</p>