<p>Me to admissions counselor(privately): “My D has a 28 ACT. Would that disqualify her from being admitted?”
Admissions counselor: “Are there any extenuating circumstances?”
Me: “No.”
Admissions counselor: “28 is pretty low, we probably wouldn’t consider her. She can try retaking it or try taking the SAT.”</p>
<p>D didn’t want to stay for the tour. We left.</p>
<p>We obviously know it is a reach school, but we were surprised by the response.</p>
<p>Although the answer may have lacked some diplomacy, it was probably an honest one. The whole college search and application process can be a stressful one for both kids and parents alike. If it is any consolation to you my daughter hated their info session, applied anyway and got rejected, was accepted and is now a senior at Boston College, and is flourishing.</p>
<p>It’s very hard on the admissions side as well. A 28 ACT is very low for Brown. If the admissions officer had led you to believe that your daughter had any shot at admission, it would not have been truthful. I am truly sorry you and your daughter were hurt, but the admissions officer would have done you a disservice to have said your daughter had a shot.</p>
<p>The admissions officer could’ve been having a rough day. They get these questions all the time from students across the world. Just look at all the god damn chance me threads that spread like the bubonic plague. I do apologize for their discourtesy on behalf of Brown.</p>
<p>However, while it can sometimes be tough to hear such a blatant statement, especially from the admissions representative, they might not have been far from the truth. Without extenuating circumstances, Brown might be out of reach. But don’t let it discourage your daughter from trying (or thinking Brown is mean-spirited; everyone here is at least cordial).</p>
<p>We absolutely knew that 28 was on the low side, but we had read on their website that some are accepted in that range. D has a very strong resume and unique background. The counselor made it seem as if she shouldn’t bother applying.</p>
<p>As I’ve told her many times… “You will bloom where ypu are planted.” She is now hoping for Pitt.</p>
<p>Why do people ask a tough question and then complain when they get a real honest answer? Sheeessh. They saved your family some disappointment, time and money. Thank them for being honest.</p>
<p>I’m surprised the admissions officer was so honest. I have sat through so many sessions where the AO claims there isn’t a numerical minimum, and yet if you look at the data for a school, it just isn’t true.
It made for a harsh day, but better to know now than to spend the next five months hoping for an outcome that is not going to happen.</p>
<p>I think we would mostly be better off (students and parents) if admissions officers WERE more honest about this. If your kid falls below the 50th percentile at a top school in scores, you can figure that odds are quite low that they will get in without a “hook” of some kind (URM, athlete, legacy, or some amazing talent at a nationwide level). That is where those low scores are coming from in the admissions statistics. </p>
<p>There was another thread out here recently about how frustrating it is that colleges lobby like crazy to get so many applications, then only can admit a small fraction of them. They know perfectly well that most of the visitors they see aren’t going to be competitive for admission.</p>
<p>Better that your D focuses more on match and schools that aren’t so much of a reach. Saves admissions fees from your pocket, energy spent on applications that could have been directed more effectively to other schools or activities, and less heartbreak once she has invested the time and energy into the application. </p>
<p>Regarding “she is now hoping for Pitt”, you really need to discourage her from getting set on one school if it isn’t too late. Ideally she would have a handful of schools she could be happy at. My view is that we have a role in the college search to help them from getting too “stuck” on a dream school, and help them find several schools (some within reach academically and financially) where they could thrive.</p>
<p>Wow. You got an adcom who didn’t answer with the usual “admissions speak.”</p>
<p>Often, when you see kids under the median stats, they are legacies, athletes, faculty kids or kids with some particular and very valuable talents or accomplishments.<br>
Take the SAT, if she’s a junior now, because so many kids simply outperform on one or the other. </p>
<p>It’s not as simple as some kids saying, well gosh, I’m gonna apply anyway. I’m an advocate of reading everything you can about a school, to interpret if our kids really do have what that college wants beyond scores. That includes the college’s own self-image is, what students typically get involved in, whether she has drives that match the particular sort of curriculum, if her interests match the college’s strengths, etc. Then, make that shine in the app. Good luck.</p>
<p>I THINK you are misreading the data on Brown’s website. </p>
<p>20% of the applicants who submit ACT scores and matriculate to Brown have scores that low. However, most people who apply to Brown submit the SAT. </p>
<p>Add up the percentages of those who submitted SATs and it will come out to about 100%. Add up the percentages of those who submitted ACTs and it also comes out to 100%. Obviously, not everyone takes both. If you look at the actual number of students who matriculate with ACTs that low, you’ll see that it’s nowhere near 20% of the class. You’ll also see that of those in the 26-28% range, fewer than 7% were accepted. Reality is that some of these will be applicants whose native language isn’t English, applicants from geographic areas from which few students apply to Brown, as well as legacies, URMs, athletes, development cases, etc. Others will be students for whom there are extenuating circumstances.</p>
<p>I too think the admissions officer did you a favor. THERE IS TIME FOR HER TO RETAKE THE TEST. He told you it’s low so that you would know that it might really help her if she retakes and improves her score. That would not only help her odds at Brown, it would help her with almost every college.</p>
Actually the data show that about 21% of the enrolled students with ACT test scores had scores <= 28 (the labels on the tables are somewhat misleading). Presumably at least some of these had comparatively higher SAT scores. These 111 students constitute about 7% of the class.</p>
<p>I’m really sorry about that I agree, i’d be very disheartened as well! I’d say still apply. I have a 30 ACT (low for them) and I certainly don’t have a perfect GPA but still plan on applying. It’s my dream school but a major reach. It doesn’t hurt to try!!</p>
<p>Apply! Without going into too much detail, my D got in last year with 28 ACT composite. Not deferred or wait listed outright accepted RD. Dreams can come true.</p>
<p>I am impressed with how candid the Brown Admission’s officers are at info sessions. Definitely less b.s. than I’ve become accustomed to hearing as my kids have gone through the process. I agree with the others who are surprised your daughter was discouraged from applying as these schools compete for bragging rights on application numbers. Extenuating circumstances could be a euphemism for a developmental admit or other hooked applicant but could also mean some other notable life changing event that would be corroborated by a guidance counselor. The Brown application is pretty challenging for a “super reach” school but people play the admissions lottery every year and some win.</p>
<p>I think we usually see “extenuating circumstances” as used in legal situations. Or, as suggested, a hook or major life issue. But, it can really just mean something that makes a situation seem less serious. A great accomplishment, a particular talent, etc.</p>
<p>This is why it’s important to really “know” your reach colleges. If she can fit and thrive at a Brown, master the academics, if her experiences truly add up to a “strong resume and unique background,” and she would add qualities they want, get engaged in the ways they want, then you take that chance. You don’t just go on rep and majors in this research. You make sure those positives show in an adcom’s fast read of the app. And, the 28 should be the only hang-up. Grades, activities, LoRs and essays have to be right. Applies to any college where the kid isn’t an obvious perfect match. Good luck.</p>
<p>I think the admissions counselor did the right thing here: s/he gave you the honest answer. Look, 2/3s of people with perfect scores on the ACT are rejected from Brown. The fact is, with that score, I doubt that it’s worth your money or time for your daughter to apply there. I’m sure she still will be happy and successful somewhere else.</p>
<p>This fall we had reps from Harvard, Duke, Stanford, and NU (I think) do a college night together. One student asked what would be the lowest SAT scores they would consider. I forget who said it, but one rep said “as long as it’s higher than 1800 then it should be ok.” I happened to sit next to our high school counselor, she took a deep breath and said to me, “They are just making my job tougher.” </p>
<p>I applaud the Brown counselor to be so honest. It would have been easier for him/her to tell a white lie and make an easy $75.</p>
<p>I’m somewhat shocked. Impression I got from admissions while I was a student (and tour guide) was that saying that kind of thing could get you fired. I’m not sure I agree with the folks who thug this was appropriate. I think it would have been more polite to point to the available statistics and say that we do read and consider all applications so while it’s rare there are extraordinary circumstances.</p>
<p>Although this candid admissions officer may have discouraged an application from someone with compelling “extenuating circumstances” that they did not appreciate, it is a disservice to the students to encourage hopeless applications. We all know this happens pushing the top students into an application frenzy and the well below borderline applicants to miss the chance to focus on appropriate reach and match schools. To encourage an 1800 or equivalent stat applicant to apply to these top tier schools who is not majorly majorly hooked is like a financial adviser encouraging lottery ticket purchases as part of ones retirement planning.</p>
I agree, i’d be very disheartened as well! I’d say still apply. I have a 30 ACT (low for them) and I certainly don’t have a perfect GPA but still plan on applying. It’s my dream school but a major reach. It doesn’t hurt to try!!</p>