<p>Hi, </p>
<p>I was recently dismissed from Steinhardt School at NYU due to academic reasons as a freshmen year student. I was wondering, that if I were to apply to music conservatories, would they take much consideration into the fact that I was dismissed from my previous college, or would the majority of my admissions be based on my musical talent and auditions?
Also, what are some conservatories in the eastern U.S (or near NY) that are not too competitive in terms of applicants?</p>
<p>Strict conservatory programs like Juilliard, Mannes, Manhattan, Curtis, Colburn, Longy are soley auditioned based, but a BM will have a minimum academic courseload. Conservatory programs attached to academic institutions Eastman, Oberlin, Carnegie Mellon, Rice, Hartt weigh academics to varying degrees. Most of these do offer a non academic performers certificate program, a 2 to 3 year intensive course of music study. What’s missing are the liberal arts/non-music requirements from the BM four year degree.</p>
<p>All of these programs, and others of similar ilk are all audition based, and are extremely competititve, and the auditions for the upcoming scholastic year are closed. You may be able to find a few programs with spring admit dates, but these are few and far between. You’d have to search specific admit criteria.</p>
<p>Added: I assume your admission to Steinhardt was auditioned based coupled with NYU’s academic criteria for admission; as such, you might be competitive for auditions in some of the programs I mentioned. Predicated on your reflections to my comments below, you may wish to study privately with a top notch teacher and attempt to audition into a top level performance program. As to what weight your dismissal academically may have, it would in all probability require disclosing it on future apps (they’ll ask for colleges attended and transcripts) as well as an honest essay explaining the reasons, and what you may have learned to avoid similar future occurences.</p>
<p>If you are a NY state resident, look at SUNY Purchase, an excellent conservatory level program within the SUNY system. </p>
<p>Having said that, consider the cause(s) of your academic dismissal. If they were due to family/personal/health issues and beyond your control, there is no reason not to continue with NYU after your probationary period is lifted and the causes resolved. If you have learning/concentration/cognititive problems that make college academics difficult, I’d urge you and your parents to sit down with counselors knowledgeable that can offer you alternatives.</p>
<p>On the otherhand, if the cause was immaturity, excessive partying, computer gaming, or any number of adverse behaviors, don’t consider a performance route an easy out. The self motivation and self discipline required is at least as strong as the perserverance to achieve academic success. The programs I mentioned, as well as many other fine programs offering both degree and certificate programs are extremely competitive, auditioned based, and you are subject to passing a performance jury or recital at least once an academic year. There are also mandatory music history and theory courses required that are for all intents academic in nature.</p>
<p>Think long and hard about what you need to do, and the path you wish to follow. A performance disciplne is by no means a path to success. </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Depends on your instrument. Some decent East Coast programs that many top level auditioners may consider being their “safety” schools include: Westminster Choir College, CUNY Queens (Copland), Rutgers (Mason Gross), Boston Conservatory, NC School of the Arts, Longy, Berklee, etc. Other schools like Boston University, SUNY Stony Brook, and SUNY Purchase are a bit more selective, but still shouldn’t be of much worry for someone who truly believes he/she has a realistic chance of succeeding in a career of music.</p>
<p>violadad has mentioned some very key points. A curriculum in music at a good school is certainly no easier than at a regular college. I don’t have the stats to back me up, but I think that graduation rates at conservatories are much lower than in most other fields. A performance degree is by no means a back up bachelor’s degree for someone who is not confident in their abilities to pursue an academic degree.</p>
<p>The job market for music majors is bleak. It is not unrealistic to predict that graduating with a 2-year associate’s degree in finance at a community college will probably net you the same income in your first few year as a DMA from Juilliard.</p>
<p>Have you been all-out dismissed from NYU? If there is some sort of an appeals process to let your return to classes under an academic probation, that would probably be your best bet.</p>
<p>Stephmin - that’s the strangest comparison of schools I have ever seen. The schools you list are so different - even in the degrees they offer - that I don’t see how you can come up with a comparison.</p>
<p>I agree with Cartera…I am very familiar with many of the schools on your list, and most are not a “slam dunk” for anyone. Also if a student has been dismissed from a college (as a music major) for any reason, this would certainly be a red flag for any program the student is applying to…even those which are 100% audition based. Even those schools want to be sure that the student has the work ethic to succeed in their conservatory. Sorry…but I think the OP needs to look at WHY they were dismissed from NYU…I personally think that others will also be looking. A music performance degree takes a significant amount of organization, commitment to task, and yes, talent. And even the conservatories have some “academic” requirements.</p>
<p>Comparison? What was I comparing?</p>
<p>jk89cello wanted a list of eastern US music schools that were not at a cut-throat admissions selectiveness as the likes of a Juilliard level school would be. And I simply listed the ones he might be interested in, given the small amount of info he provided. The schools I listed had reputable programs without the statistical admissions competition as a top conservatory. I don’t see how that can be questioned?</p>
<p>When you say one group is a safety and the other is more selective, you are comparing. For example, how can you compare NCSA and BOCO to SUNY Stony Brook? One offers a BA in music - no performance track - and the others are conservatories. I’m not saying SB is not a fine program but it seems to be apples to oranges with regard to what the OP wants. SB would have stricter academic requirements.</p>
<p>Also. a LOT depends on the instrument. Some schools which some folks view as less competitive have very strong studios on some instruments with highly sought after teachers. Steph did mention this.</p>
<p>I will say…I still think someone is going to wonder why this person got asked to leave NYU.</p>
<p>question - If someone failed their freshman year of college, then are they considered freshmen at the new college? Will the issue of the previous school ever even come up? (I assume it will be documented on the application, but if the OP isn’t applying as a transfer, then there is no need to bring records into it.)</p>
<p>Binx, I’ve never seen a college or conservatory application that doesn’t ask if you have previously taken college courses.</p>
<p>Right. That’s what I mean about having it documented on the application. I am assuming the OP has passed at least some of his courses, but some conservatories won’t give credit for them anyway. I just wondered if, all things being equal, a poor freshman year of college - that won’t count toward your 4-year degree anyway, might not be viewed that different from a poor senior year of HS.</p>
<p>I still think that a better plan for the OP might be to take a year off, perhaps pursue a few college courses (and pass them) at a local community college - just to show that he can handle college work. And then be prepared to answer any tough questions along the way. Honestly – if you failed because you slept through classes, convince them that you’ve matured now. Put extra time into his instrument, too. Two otherwise “equal” auditions for the same slot, with one from a good student, and one from a struggling student – the good student will probably get the nod. </p>
<p>He hasn’t told us why he had trouble, and that will make a difference as to what steps he needs to take now.</p>
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<p>Agreed!!</p>
<p>Too many unknowns here for conjecture. While cello is part of the OP’s username, we can only assume that is the instrument being played.</p>
<p>Steinhardt is a solid program, and NYU has an academic threshold that is not significantly overridden by audition results. Admission to NYU/Steinhardt would therefore indicate a reasonable level of performance proficiency as well as meeting their minimum academic admission standards. Potentially that level of performance talent is competitive in other high quality audition based programs. </p>
<p>We don’t know what program the OP was admitted into at Steinhardt. Nor do we know the root cause(s) for the academic dismissal.</p>
<p>We all know that audition standards for performance majors are at a higher level than other majors, such as music ed, or music business.</p>
<p>We all know ANY audition based program is a crap-shoot, and any number of variables can cause a safety to become a “sorry”.</p>
<p>I deliberately chose to list conservatory/conservatory level institutions where I knew (or reasonably assumed) that a non-degree performance certificate was offered. I did not list other NY state schools beyond Purchase, other public institutions as most of these are academic admits leading to degree programs. Without researching, I doubt many publics offer certificate programs in performance. Possible exceptions could be Indiana/Jacobs and UMich/Ann Arbor.</p>
<p>It’s possible that the OP could seek and gain admission into a fairly non-selective degree program, be it public or private; the issue then becomes the strength of the teacher, the program, and the peer quality. The downsides to a lesser program do not necessarily serve to provide all the skills required for a potential career as a performer, or pave the way for admission into a top notch Artist’s Diploma or Graduate Professional Diploma program.</p>
<p>Any number of issues could have resulted in academic dismissal. Some are short term, situational. Others can be far more deeply rooted. We may never know unless the OP chooses to post the reasons.</p>
<p>Those of us with our own dogs in the race know it’s not an easy path, even for the most dedicated, talented and serious student.</p>
<p>Just my $.02.</p>
<p>To not include the transcripts for any college work attempted is academic fraud, and grounds for immediate dismissal and perhaps rescission of any credits or degrees subsequently earned/awarded. That being said, it is likely that most schools with any kind of competitive admissions procedure would require that a student who had been dismissed for academic cause would achieve a respectable grade point average at a community college or other non-competitive institution. Very few would accept a transfer, even with an outstanding audition, from an applicant who has demonstrated difficulties with academic success. </p>
<p>Probably the best alternative would be a year at a community college, achieving excellent grades, taking care of core curriculum courses, and simultaneously making progress with a private music teacher. Then there might be a successful application to transfer to more demanding and competitive music program.</p>
<p>Well put violadad.</p>
<p>Jk89cello,
Please contact me if you have any questions about Hartts undergraduate diploma which is a three-year non-academic music performance concentration; non-degree program. Admission will be completely based on your audition. Students participate in three years of lessons, orchestra, chamber music, music theory, music history, piano keyboarding, recitals, and music electives. Erin Arrison, Assistant Director of Hartt Admissions 860-768-4148.</p>