<p>Question of how many students taken in: these are 5 freshmen. Presumably they took in students at other grade levels, too, as most schools did.</p>
<p>I think most everyone here agrees that the students should not get special treatment, nor be felt much sorry for. </p>
<p>CD--your S sounds like a special kid; no one here would think otherwise. But I do think that your antipathy to H is coloring your perception that no one is making a big deal about it but these 5 kids, and almost everyone here at CC thinks they're wrong.</p>
<p>garland: honestly, I have no axe to grind with H. Despite my Ds' bad experience at H this Summer, I do think it is great U. My real antipathy is with the notion that some hold that there is H and the then the rest of the world. Really, it is nothing more than that.</p>
<p>I haven't read every single post on this thread, so what I have to say may be repetitive.</p>
<p>The scenario that's now unfolding at Harvard and other "selective" places, I gather, was so predictable. If all universities involved didn't see this coming--from the get-go--then they were wearing blinders, or in denial. I feel that any Tulane student who would rather stay at Harvard (or Oklahoma State) should apply at the appropriate time, as either a transfer or first-year student, like everyone else.</p>
<p>And I applaud concerneddad's comments, most especially about hardship, and admire the choices his son made. I also appreciate that he didn't change his name to post what he thinks.</p>
<p>We are talking as if this "Gentleman's Agreement" was done at arms length. The students at Tulane, including the current Harvard students from Tulane, were given a Hobson's choice -- attend these schools as visiting students or don't attend college this semester. It doesn't sound like much of a choice to me. Sure they could withdraw from Tulane in September and then scramble for the nearest college that would take them at the last minute. I understand the frustration of some of the parents whose children chose to go to Tulane this fall and are now returning. However, don't act as if this was a "gentleman's agreement" in the true sense. Further, it is more of a "gentleman's agreement" between the universities more than between the students and the schools. I can't imagine the students having much say in negotiating this "gentleman's agreement." More likely it was just presented to them as one of their options. Unfortunately, the 5 Harvard students (and others) were pawns in this whole mess, and they deserve to have their side taking seriously and not dismissed.</p>
<p>And also let's recall that Mom60's D followed the agreement in that she was not one of the students who accepted Visiting status. She withdrew from Tulane and matriculated at her new school, for fall 2005 with the open possibility that she would stay longer. This is what she is doing, and this does not violate the agreement in any way.</p>
<p>The biggest issue to me is the whole concept of fit. How can Tulane students do well at Harvard?</p>
<p>I wrote this statement at 10:00 and said I was being sarcastic at 10:21. I think for most people it was pretty clear I was being sarcastic.</p>
<p>I do think there is a great opportunity here to to a sociological study on how kids from Tulane are doing at schools that are the most selective in the country...schools like Harvard, Amherst, Cornell, etc. We don't always get this opportunity. </p>
<p>I am not trashing Tulane. It is one of the top schools in the country. We all know there is a hierarchy of schools out there thanks to US News and others. We read all the time that student bodies are stronger than other student bodies and we see a frenzy to get into the "top-top schools". Now we have an opportunity to see what is really going on and if wouldn't destroy Tulane (which it probably would), I would love to see the Tulane students stay where they are and follow their progress over the next 4-5 years.</p>
<p>Havent gone to Tulane (or Harvard) myself and my own child is far from there but, I dont know. </p>
<p>Ive seen a lot of tears shed and shoulders offered to parents concerned that their kids, as freshman, are not fitting in or are depressed or dont have the proper coat or sheets or computer etc; some hoping for special accommodations under the circumstances. I have seen much good advice and compassion offered to these forlorn parents. I myself was very concerned about how my off-spring would do so far from home for the first time (shes loving it, if it matters).</p>
<p>Yet here, I read that some kids should offer a stiff-upper-lip, gentlemens agreements and all, you know harrumph, when shipped a 1000 miles away from the hurricane and its aftermath at 17 &18 years old. Told that they dont know what struggle is: how about giving birth with cancer (now thats real struggle you little bratsand so it is). </p>
<p>The plight of Tulane students is made analogous to lawn mowing in a presumption that fits some of the more immodest presumptions already expressed here, that these Tulane students may not fit-ina euphemism to be sure (based solely on the fact that they went to Tulane and nothing more unless someone here knows their individual stats and ecs we should presume that this is evidence of ineptitude in itself: Tulane students are simply sub-par for a college so very Harvardy as Harvard).</p>
<p>Really, its insufferable.</p>
<p>Harvard is a great school, probably the greatest on earth in most peoples eyes, and that may be in part why these KIDS want to stay with their new friends, domiciles, classes and profsbut my guess it that it is only a part.</p>
<p>5 students take a pass and contract law and gentlemens agreements go down the tubeswhat will the rest of America thinkwhat will all those non-Harvard schools get up to since Harvard did itits a damn crisis of civilization?</p>
<p>Stop them before its too late the little 18 year old ingrates. </p>
<p>dstark- I have to tell you that I took your comment at face value until I saw the later post. It was not at all clear that it was sarcastic. I was very glad to read that it was!</p>
<p>Well, CD, neither of my kids had a bad experience with Harvard, because neither had any experience (or sought any with it) at all. Just never any interest at all. I'm not sure where this perception that everyone thinks it's the be all and end all comes from; maybe I just live in a different kind of town, but even here at CC, at least in the parents pages, I don't see that at all, though I see plenty of accusations of it.</p>
<p>well garland, I guess we all see what we want to see. For my part, I see a lot of hand-wringing about getting into ALL of the elite schools, and it leaves me just shaking my head in wonder.</p>
<p>I did not think concerneddad was H-bashing in post #7. He was merely making the point that not everyone feels H is THE place to get a college education (as posts #4 and #5 indicated). He was describing his daughter's experience. What was offensive about that?
I started reading this thread when it was only one page. Now it is up to 7 pages! Obviously, this thread is not just about five 18-year olds wanting to stay on at H.</p>
<p>Nice shift of subject, CD, but since you've been just as much part of the general handwringing, and honest about it, I guess that's just fine, :)</p>
<p>"Unfortunately, the 5 Harvard students (and others) were pawns in this whole mess, and they deserve to have their side taking seriously and not dismissed."</p>
<p>Pawns? Give me a break! What IF Harvard had not taken them in as GUESTS? </p>
<p>They were given the opportunity to attend the school that garners the most attention on the planet ... the same school that rolled out the red carpet to accomodate them with new bedding and air-conditioning. What is "their side" of the story? That they would suffer hardship to have to return to the school they selected in the first place? The school PAID attention to their request and ... denied it, as they should. End of the story. </p>
<p>As far as not wanting to return to Tulane, they can do that... just do not go back, withdraw, and start over. Consider the semester at Harvard as a great gap year experience. 20,000 students were not lucky enough to be accepted at Harvard, and we know that more than one had to take a gap year. </p>
<p>It is a darn shame that Harvard is facing such a no-win situation. It is true that the school is not perfect, but it still deserves the respect of all.</p>
<p>
[quote]
he students at Tulane, including the current Harvard students from Tulane, were given a Hobson's choice -- attend these schools as visiting students or don't attend college this semester. It doesn't sound like much of a choice to me.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As they say on the late-night TV ads, "but wait! there's more!"</p>
<p>Not only was that the Hobson's choice, but anyone who had already paid tuition at Tulane was looking at the very real prospect of kissing that money goodbye. Tulane had announced that they would hold that money and apply it towards the next semester, whenever that might occur. Being out $20,000 makes the "choice" especially fun. I believe that Mom60 said that they still have not seen any refund from Tulane.</p>
<p>I admire those who are excited to return to Tulane. Had my kid been there, I would have done everything in my power to get my money back and wave good-bye. There probably was no choice but to take up the free tuition deal for last semester for anyone who couldn't afford to kiss off $20,000. But, at the conclusion of that time, I would withdraw from Tulane and make that known to my host institution.</p>
<p>Nothin' against Tulane. It's a horrible situation and I admire their rebuilding efforts. But, I don't think they are capable of delivering a product worth yesterday's prices. Tulane's customers don't owe them anything (except maybe first semester refund checks).</p>
<p>
[quote]
As far as not wanting to return to Tulane, they can do that... just do not go back, withdraw, and start over. Consider the semester at Harvard as a great gap year experience.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's what I would do. The only fly in the ointment might be that Tulane plays hardball on issuing credit for the Harvard courses after the withdrawal.</p>
<p>Guilty as charged garland. I came to this board originally a few years ago to gain insight and information, while my son was fielding offers from several schools. And, it was no secret that at the time, I would have had him make a different choice.</p>
<p>But, disproving the theory that old dogs cannot learn new tricks, my son taught be a lesson about going for what feels right, instead of what might look good. It does not mean that for some, what looks good also feels right, I know it does. My point was, and remains, that this is not a one size fits all exercise. That is what my few years and pesronal experience has taught me, and that is all I was trying to convey.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Not only was that the Hobson's choice, but anyone who had already paid tuition at Tulane was looking at the very real prospect of kissing that money goodbye. Tulane had announced that they would hold that money and apply it towards the next semester
[/quote] Please all of you, have your facts straight before you make such statements. Tulane announced that they would hold that money and apply it to the next semester <em>if</em> that's what the student wanted. They also announced they would provide a full refund if students chose to withdraw. They also announced they would provide partial refunds where students chose to take less than a full load at another institution. And so on and so on. They also announced that they would evaluate each special case individually.</p>
<p>That Mom60 has not yet seen her refund is totally understandable for anyone paying attention to the logistics involved. Tulane's Accounts Receivables office was closed for an extended period. It spent another extended period trying to rescue mail. And another extended period restoring its computer systems. It has mailed everyone a statement in the last couple of weeks and provided contact information, on-line and phone, to resolve discrepancies. All will receive their refunds, credits etc. in due time and in good faith. Tulane has acted in nothing but good faith and with great courage throughout this process. It causes me pain, as I try to avoid resentment, when people make such statements out of ignorance. If anyone wishes full information, I will be happy to provide the link where these policies are outlined for all to observe.</p>
<p>At the time students were faced with their initial decisions, Tulane had not announced that they would refund money. The early talk was all centered around keeping the money and applying it to some future semester. </p>
<p>And, in fact, I believe that concern over refunds has proven to be justified. Not to doubt Tulane's sincerity at all, but customers seeking a $20,000 refund have not received their money. The logistics may be "perfectly understandable", but that does't put the 20 grand back in the bank to spend on college elsewhere.</p>
<p>As a practical matter, anyone who withdrew from Tulane last September was looking at paying double-tuition, the money already paid to Tulane and the tuition at the new school.</p>
<p>Again, I really admire Tulane's efforts to rebuild. I understand why they are doing everything they can to tie-up their students. But, as consumers, their students were put in a difficult position.</p>
<p>It is precisely those perfectly understandable logistics that would make me want to find a different school, one that faces fewer logistical challenges in delivering their product.</p>
<p>I disagree wholeheartedly. And I was one of those Tulane parents. whose student was faced with an "initial decision." The word was out very quickly that no one would be charged tuition if they chose not to return to Tulane. Nor do I think the concern over refunds is justified. You try getting things done any faster than Tulane has in the New Orleans which they now occupy. Surely, some folks are experiencing cash flow problems. I sympathize with that. But to imply they should be "concerned" that Tulane will "hold on" to their money unjustifiably. I heartily object.</p>