<p>I think that the truth lies somewhere in the middle between Jmmom and Interesteddad. When we withdrew which was before the published withdraw date Tulane had not made clear the tuition policy. And when we first enrolled her at Denver it was the assumption that she would get a refund from Tulane and we would pay Denver. No policy of free tuition had been cemented. They took a long time answering how tuition would be credited to students attending a quarter school. I think Tulane should have acted earlier in some of their policies. Clearity of the details were slow in coming. What was clear from the beginning was if you didn't attend school in the fall your tution would be credited for the spring. I do think in the end the policy was one that served both sides and if she was returning I would be satisfied.
I have issue with the fact that we have not received a refund. We supplied a copy of the transfer of funds to Tulane and withdrew early in the semester. We have had mixed messages sent by the accounts receivable. From one phone call that we should have already received it to the latest that they will arrive in late December. And then another that the reason was that they hadn't gotten their mail from NO. Since we had sent it to the Houston address that did not ring true. Another call to the accounts receivable I got someone who said they are not sending refunds till after the last deadline passes in case people change their minds.
For us it was in excess of 20,000 dollars. Which was a gift to my D from her grandparents. We then had to pay Denver room and board. And then to read that students who hadn't paid their fall tuition have till May to pay is just slightly annoying. And it is a good chance that we will have Denver's winter quarter tuition and room and board due before we receive anything back from Tulane.
I feel for Tulane and hope for their survival. But I do think people who withdrew are at the bottom of the pile right now. They have no reason to serve you in a timely manor.</p>
<p>Theya re probably battling insurance companies in their efforts to serve you, mom60. How many tuition refund requests have they had? Are the requests increasing as families assess the conditions in greater New Orleans? If accounts receiveable has had a great many refund requests, it will a scramble to come up with the cash at $20k a pop. That's big change.</p>
<p>The gentleman's agreement is between institutions. I believe institutions, especially private institutions, will abide by that agreement for the sake of future agreements and to avoid contributing to the collapse of New Orleans universities.</p>
<p>Pawn is a good word for the students, but then, the students are pawns in the system anyway. Thus, the reason for this board, haha. </p>
<p>It's not cancer, but for freshman, it is a fairly awful way to start a university career. Their 18 year old whinging is understandable, but unlikely to change their circumstances. Says me anyway.</p>
<p>One hundred posts ago, Mom60 wrote: "Her host school offered the option of staying on to the visiting students from the first day of school which was Labor Day. My D became part of a group of 6 Tulane freshman. All had been accepted to the school and chosen Tulane. Of the 6, 4 have decided to stay and 2 are going back to Tulane." Of course, the college in Mom60's daughter's case was not bound by the "Gentleman's Agreement." But my guess is that the "Gentlemen's Agreement" was tilted in favor of the institutions, not the students.</p>
<p>"But my guess is that the "Gentlemen's Agreement" was tilted in favor of the institutions, not the students."</p>
<p>Venado, how would an agreement be tilted in the favor of the students? Did you envision an agreement whereby the students would be allowed to stay if they opted to? </p>
<p>It seems to me that you look at the students as victims -or pawns- and look at the schools as engaging in collusion or other malicious practices. I'm sure that nobody denies that the students' life was disrupted, but they were also some of the luckiest ones. They could have been attending a much lesser known school than Harvard. </p>
<p>Nobody can undo the devastation of NOLA and the ensuing tragedies. It would be impossible to make everyone whole. People have suffered irreparable damages and losses. And this is why I view the attitude of a few who seek to benefit from the events and upgrade their status to be disingenuous.</p>
<p>Hang on xiggi. Tulane is not the institution it was last August. New Orleans is not the city it was last August. These are not students seeking additional benefits or 'upgrades'. These are students who would rather not return to a situation that is far different than the original purchase. </p>
<p>The students are not victims of the university or collusion or whatever. They are continuing victims of a massive hurricane. As they cannot return to the original purchase, the former Tulane in the former New Orleans, their contracts have already been breached by acts of God. I don't have quibbles about their attempts to stay at host universities.</p>
<p>My guess is that they will be allowed special transfer status next fall, allowing the host universities to give the appearance of backing a sister school, while giving the actual consumer a palatable way forward.</p>
<p>"Told that they dont know what struggle is: how about giving birth with cancer (now thats real struggle you little bratsand so it is). "</p>
<p>This was directed at me personally, as I am the one who posted that a true "terrible burden" was giving birth to a child who then got cancer. As a parent of a child with cancer, and knowing at least one other CC member in the same boat, I find this unbelievably offensive.</p>
<p>WW, you have absolutely NO idea how utterly incommensurate your comparison is. I have wanted to die from unbearable, unspeakable suffering. Imagine watching your child facing death; I can't even BEGIN to say how tasteless your sarcasm is, how .....</p>
<p>no, there is utterly no point.</p>
<p>I have read a lot of harsh posts on CC, but yours was beyond the pale.</p>
<p>I think the option mentioned in Mom60's post #42 is an excellent example. It is realistic and less onerous than the Gentleman's Agreement that currently exists. The schools (Harvard, Tulane, Duke, etc.) were not being "malicious", but they were more interested in preserving Tulane than in giving students' the best options. It is a tough reality check for these students as they try to get out of returning to Tulane, or as in other cases mentioned herein, getting their tuition monies back.</p>
<p>One point that I don't think has been made in this thread is that Harvard did not create a new Visiting Student program to accommodate displaced students from Tulane and other New Orleans schools. They expanded an existing program - by a substantial number - to take these students in. (They also agreed not to charge these students tuition - so that Tulane and the other affected schools could keep the tuition payments that the students had already paid.)</p>
<p>The rules of the Visiting Student program are quite clear across the board - not just for displaced students from New Orleans - and include the following statement in bold-face type: </p>
<p>"Please note that once you are enrolled as a Visiting Student, you may not apply as a Transfer student to Harvard College."</p>
<p>I don't know how to bold-face in this post, but here's the link and the statement is quite prominent:
<a href="http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/prospective/applying/vus/how_to_apply/index.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/prospective/applying/vus/how_to_apply/index.html</a></p>
<p>So the notion that Harvard is treating or has treated these students in any way unfairly is, in my view, absurd. Harvard, together with all the other schools across the country that opened their doors to displaced New Orleans students, should be praised, not criticized. (And cd, regardless of what grievances you and your family may have against Harvard, I don't think this is the thread to air them - nor do I think it's so easy to separate yourself from your role as a moderator, given the "moderator" tag under your screen name.)</p>
<p>Nedad, your post #61 was
[quote]
I laughed out loud at this! A "terrible burden?" Trying have a child with cancer. Or being a refugee. Or, like some of the students I volunteer to tutor, try seeing your family chopped up with machetes before your eyes.</p>
<p>A "terrible burden?" Oh, please!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You didn't say in that post that you were speaking from personal experience. If there was a post that reeked of sacrcasm, looked crass and in bad taste, then it was yours -- bearing in mind that none of us could know that the person with the cancer-ridden child was you -- and if cancer is a touchy subject for you, as well it should be, then you certainly should refrain from bringing up the subject in the midst of a debate.</p>
<p>No one is arguing relativity here. Of course there are some burdens worse than others. But it is demeaning to laugh at one person's plight or their choice of words by flaunting a more extreme circumstance. I suppose with your analogy all of the Katrina survivors have little to complain about, because they certainly didn't observe their families massacred with machetes.... but I don't think you really meant to say that having your house and all your worldly goods destroyed and being displaced and without a permanent home for months on end is trivial. </p>
<p>I am truly sorry for your personal loss and agree that it shouldn't be a subject for debate here. That's why I think you should be more circumspect in the future about bringing it up as a debating point on a public forum.</p>
<p>Calmom, I am sorry you feel that way. I am close friends with three families of Tulane students. None of them were from New Orleans nor did they lose anything at all - they come from wealthy northern families. Each of the three is in a different school with anywhere from five to a dozen other Tulane students, again, none of whom lost a thing. Most of them never even GOT to New Orleans, as the school warned them ahead of time.</p>
<p>I did not flaunt a more extreme circumstance. It is still funny to me that (as with one daughter of the three families), a child who has never suffered at all, who never set foot in New Orleans and lost nothing at all, should call it a "terrible burden" to have to abide by her own decision.</p>
<p>I did not laugh at the plight of REAL Katrina victims; I laughed at the hyberbole in saying having to leave Harvard was a "terrible burden" when I have to deal with kids every day who saw their families killed.</p>
<p>You are right that I should not have brought up the death of my beloved child. It was an emotional response to what I thought was a particular ugly post.</p>
<p>You are "sorry for my loss?" I think not.</p>
<p>Signing off permanently. I cannot submit my emotions to your next display of sympathy.</p>
<p>mom60, I certainly can see, from your story, how human nature will come into play and allow Withdraws to fall low on the totem pole of priorities. I can see that it would test your patience. I'm sure it will be worked out, but I can imagine it's frustrating. I do find myself "protective" of some of the Tulane-bashing, different from the so-called Harvard bashing, in that - to me- it smacks of kicking them when they're down. However, even though they have my support, it doesn't mean they get it right every time ;), and I hope your account is resolved soon.</p>
<p>like nedad, I am going to sign off of this thread - and hope I won't be drawn back to look at it. I think it is getting very out of hand in many ways - bashing Tulane, bashing Harvard, bashing the posters. I kind of wish the thread would be closed, but am not certain that is a reasonable request. See you in Sinners Alley, where I believe the stress level will be lower :).</p>
<p>Thank you coureur for the fascinating topic. I too am signing off and wish everyone a wonderful Thanksgiving day.</p>
<p>I haven't seen any bashing of Tulane. I think Cowen has done a remarkable job.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter, however, is that students are customers and, as such, don't owe Tulane anything. The product Tulane offers going forward will be very different than the product they offered previously. Some customers will find that new product attractive. Others won't.</p>
<p>Personally, I'd stay as far away from N. Orleans as I could for the next five years. That's not bashing. That's just consumer choice. I'd probably feel differently if I had ties to the N. Orleans community.</p>
<p>"The schools (Harvard, Tulane, Duke, etc.) were not being "malicious", but they were more interested in preserving Tulane than in giving students' the best options. "</p>
<p>Venado, you're going around and around, and seem happy to refuse to address an undeniable fact: those are NOT Harvard students and never were. They were NEVER admitted by Harvard, except as visiting students. It is not Harvard's responsibility to give those students the "best options." </p>
<p>If those students are interested in continuing their education at Harvard, there is a procedure they MUST follow ... just as the other 22,000 students. How hard is it really t understand that while those students needed help and received it, they are NOT entitled to special admissions' rules. I have already posted that Harvard has no way to accommodate their transfer requests since the students do not QUALIFY at THIS time. </p>
<p>The discussion is about Harvard's refusal to allow the students to apply as transfers. It is not about the plight of the students after returning to Tulane. That is not Harvard's business. Those students are Tulane's students. The decision for the students is not between Harvard or Tulane ... it is between Tulane and thousands of other schools. Schools where they could gain bona fide admission!</p>
<p>Hi -- writing on my son's login. . . We know two Tulane frosh. One ended up at Syracuse this semester but wants more sun and is a little bit of a pioneer, so he will be returning to Tulane. It has been a difficult experience for him, attending school at S.U. but knowing that he won't be staying and thus any new friendships are kind of meaningless. The other ended up at Bucknell, and her parents told her she is staying there.</p>
<p>micromom, I agree with your perspective in Post #132 (I think it is --you're right: long thread!). Thanks for posting that.</p>
<p>What has happened to Tulane students is tragic yes, but they cannot break an agreement made in kindness towards then. No college had to take them in, but they did, and using public pressure to attempt to stay is unfair. If they truly want to attend Harvard, Bucknell, Oklahoma State, they can apply as a transfer. If they are truly the type of stuff those colleges want, they would probably have a fairly easy time of being admitted since they will have formed relationships with various professors there,etc. </p>
<p>We have several Tulane students at my university and I know our admissions office would gladly get all their paperwork for transfer started BEFORE they even have to go back to Tulane to hasten their return. This isn't a 'go to Harvard right this minute or never'. It's a semester's wait at most, which I think is a small price to pay to make the jump from Tulane to Harvard honestly.</p>
<p>Edited for inability to spell:P</p>
<p>nedad~</p>
<p>I tried to send you a note via pm, but you have your pm disabled. I don't know if you'll see this here, but if you do happen back onto this thread, I want you to know that I am in full agreement with you and that I, too, found WW's distasteful remarks unconscionable and lacking in everything from decency to empathy and so much more. He also missed my point entirely, applying my analogy wrongly, but what he did to you was exponentially worse. </p>
<p>Please know that I and many others feel that you have NO NEED to
[quote]
be more circumspect in the future about bringing it up as a debating point on a public forum
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In fact, your life--ALL of it--is YOURS to share as you will, and yes, you should be able to expect common decency and appropriate sympathy for your tragic and irreplaceable loss. It makes EVERYTHING else look trivial, particularly the "plight" of the visiting Harvard students.</p>
<p>Please know that some of us out here DO care. Peace, ~berurah</p>
<p>nedad,
While I do not want to engage in any criticism of any poster -- since it is apparent that many comments on this thread have already been misunderstood & even distorted to a different meaning, I would not want to contribute to ad hominem attacks against those you have dialogued with. I just wanted to add some affirming words after berurah's post. (I also tried to PM you.) Certainly most of the issues discussed here are not vaguely in the same zone as the loss of a child. To quote berurah, "some of us...DO care." That would probably be more CC'ers than you think. I hope you can take that peaceful thought with you into the holidays. (And I hope you don't leave CC.)
Blessings,
e.</p>
<p>NEDad, I'm with the others who would miss your voice of reason. </p>
<p>And my sympathies on your terrible loss. I miss my son (who died when he was two days old) every day; your loss must be even harder to bear, having more memories and such painful ones. I hope there are good memories to ease the pain.</p>