S was not admitted to Notre Dame, his top choice. We were so naively believing the family (he is a legacy) and the diversity stuff Notre Dame was talking about. As a warning to Asian parents thinking about applying to Notre Dame or going there. Think twice. The 6% of Asian students at Notre Dame (Forbes, 2015 University of Notre Dame Enrollment by Race/Ethnicity) was really small compared to many top universities (Harvard: 21%; Stanford: 22%; MIT: 30%; Princeton: 20%). If Notre Dame really want diversity, they should not have turned down so many qualified Asian applicants. They should have asked the diversity council to work together with the office of undergraduate admissions.
His stats for those interested:
GPA: UW 3.81/W 4.39 in one of the most competitive public high schools in the nation (nationally ranked). The Bās in his class are almost all math related and his math was not that bad according to his test scores.
SAT 1: 2320 (reading 720; math 800; writing 800). PSAT 237 and so NMF.
SAT 2: Math Level 2 790; Biology 790.
AP: all 5s (including Calculus and Statistics, total of 7).
ECs: Varsity Basketball Team Captain (year-round school and outside league teams); DECA; Teaching Assistant for some weekend school; some church related volunteer work.
Soā¦you were counting on ethnicity to get him into a school with a ~20% acceptance rate?
How many hours of community service did he do throughout high school?
Your son joins the 80% of applicants who werenāt admitted. 6% of ND students being Asian is right in line with the latest census figures (5.6%), while Asians are overrepresented at schools like Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Princeton, etc.
On the whole, Asian-Americans are overrepresented among the student population at top colleges, so you could argue that 6% is low. But many Asian applicants are fixated on major schools on the coasts, like the ones you just named. Small liberal arts colleges, as well as predominantly catholic schools like Notre Dame or BC, and other religious schools like BYU, tend to have a less diverse applicant pool, so itās not that surprising that fewer Asians are admitted.
Iām sure this is the last thing you want to hear now, but applications to Notre Dame are extremely competitive. A third of last yearās freshman class ranked in the top 1% of their high school classes. 25% had higher SAT scores than your son. And nearly half were varsity sport captains.
I understand your disappointment, which is only natural. But so many things about the process are unknowable, especially at schools of Notre Dameās caliber. Maybe your sonās essays were good, but rubbed someone the wrong way. Perhaps his letters of recommendation made him out to be a generic ābright, well-rounded kid.ā Itās possible the application reader went to a Thai restaurant, got food poisoning, and rejected every Asian applicant he/she read the next day. These things shouldnāt happen, but they do, and make the difference in many cases. Other, more rational, factors may be at play. Did the school admit more first-generation college students? Did ND need a tuba player more than another basketball captain? Maybe a lot of students with his profile and academic interests applied, and the college wanted to create a balanced class.
Universities across the country are deeply committed to a more diverse class by a number of measures, but they have to choose between a pool of applicants who could fill the freshman class many times over, the vast majority of whom are qualified. That means difficult choices, and bad news for a lot of students. CC students and parents alike will tell you that this isnāt a judgment of your sonās worth as a person, and it wonāt determine the course of his life. So take heart.
I donāt think this is a diversity issue at all. Your son sounds like a great candidate for a lot of schools, and there are plenty of other great candidates too. There is no point having sour grapes about it, because the college rejected a ton of other excellent kids too. You canāt take it personally or assume he wasnāt admitted becasue he is Asian. He has excellent stats and probably has been or will be admitted to other excellent colleges, no doubt with merit at some of them. I hope he isnāt taking it as hard as you seem to be.
So, as Iāve said in a different thread on highly selective scholls what differentiates your son from other applicants?
GPA? There are plenty of people applying with 4.0 GPAs. Even more with 3.9s, 3.85s, 3.82s and so on.
SAT? Plenty of people applying with 2400.
SAT II? 800 is the 91st percentile for Math II, your son got 790.
Ap Classes? He may have 7, but other people applying from other schools could have 8, 10, or 14 AP classes. Were those the maximum he could take in his school? Did other applicants in his school take more?
Extracurriculars? There are numerous basketball players and many more athletes applying to Notre Dame. As well as those with volunteer work.
Now, one might say, āThe essay was spectacular!ā, to which I would respond, subjective based on the reader.
Another might say, āThe sum is greater than its parts!ā, which is true, your son is a unique applicant. But perhaps the school felt they had enough basketball members, or DECA members, or felt his essay was lacking, or felt they had another spplicant similar to your son with better grades. Who knows! Such is life.
When I ask how your son is differentiated, I do this to show that a school with a 20% acceptance will reject 80% of applicants mathematically. Your sonās tip factors were not enough. Such a thing is not to be lamented, as Iām certain he has other offers lined up.
Regarding the diversity issue, I would remind you that Asians make up 5.8% of the population, so they are adequately represented at Notre Dame, as opposed to over represented elsewhere. Why this is could be for a number of reasons. The popularity/namebrand factor of the school to Asians is not as high as other schools, Indiana has a smaller Asian population et cetera et cetera.
Would this have been an issue with you if your son had been one of the people accepted? They still would have had the same acceptance rate for Asians. Just curious.
You son had weak ecās. I applied with nearly the same stats but much stronger extracurriculars and was admitted. I worked under an ND professor and got a rec letter from him. That is what gets you admitted into extremely selective schools, not great scores and grades.
I asked about community service for a reason. Last year my older sonās application to ND was not supported by his schoolās GC because he did not reach enough hours to make his application āattractiveā. He could have still applied but he would not have received the backroom support others received. He did 100 hours of school approved community service per year not the 200 hours per year recommend for ND. He was however a soft athletic recruit in the sense he was officially asked to walk on.
He never applied to ND because he knew the head Brother would not personally recommend him.
@Nedcone, I donāt buy that there were tons of students with 2400 SATs applying to ND. Some, but not āplentyā. It isnāt really a huge target school for a lot of the 2400 students. In the context of ND test scores, he is above the 50% mark in CR, and the 75% mark in math & writing. His score are probably not the issue.
Maybe this is obvious, but is your son Catholic? 80% of the incoming class last year was, it is clearly a preference for admissions.
Thatās funny.
Asian here admitted.
I think the main purpose of your thread isnāt about the diversity of ND but solely about ranting.
Iāve been on CC a while and the most annoying thread I find is āI have 1600 SAT 4.0 GPA why did they reject me such a jokeā
ND canāt take anyone. They canāt take every Asians. Rejecting one Asian (your son) doesnāt= their diversity is a joke.
Your sonās stats look great. Iām sure other wonderful colleges will take him.
@intparent Wanna betā¦75% of the class were in the top 5% of their high school class.
The preference is slightly yes from a Catholic school but not whether the student is Catholic.
@Nedcone in reply to his/her post, id like to say that I have 3.97ish uw GPA 4.47w GPA. ND doesnāt look at writing scores, and my CR+M=1560 higher than your sonās. Iām not bragging anything cuz 1.theres no point to, Iām admitted and that speaks louder than stats 2.thereāre plenty (really, plenty) people better than me in regards to stats or ECs or everything in general. Iām just trying to say, competition is there and again, they canāt take everyone.
Not to be mean but if your thread is in Dukeās forum or any Ivyās forum where a bunch of Asians with nearly perfect stats are applying, theyāll just laugh. So donāt specially target on ND.
@intparent Fair point, fair point. I might reword it to say there are plenty of 2400-2100 range scorers. The point was not that his score was low in any regard, but that at such a high level, the score does not differentiate him as the father might believe.
Sorry, this sounds more like sour grapes than a diversity issue. Nobody is a sure thing for these very competitive colleges. Iām sure your S will have many excellent choices in the end so best to move forward and focus on the schools he has been accepted to.
As the parent of a bi-racial current student, and of an accepted REA 2020 student, I believe that diversity is very valued and supported at Notre Dame.
Iām very sorry for disappointed students. I commented on another post that I think students are under pressure these days that is really too much. That isnāt any one schoolās fault, but the climate now of college admissions.
For our part, my kids played sports as OPās S did. They didnāt always make the team they wanted. Our whole family didnāt take it personally, because, usually, we could see the reason. It was never personal, but the Coach already had kids from the year before who played my Dās position and who were strong players as well. Or some other valid reason. But we always saw parents who took it personally and felt insulted because their kid didnāt make the team. Iāve never thought that was a healthy attitude.
Thatās kind of the situation here. OPās S can go on and be successful at another school. Yes, it is disappointing. Most kids applying to colleges are going to face some rejections. As families, we have to be prepared for that. It is a business decision. You look at what you have and invest yourself there.
So to sum up what Iām saying: Take five minutes to be disappointed. Donāt let it affect your confidence. Then turn to the next thing, and focus on that.
@OnTheBubble Where did you hear the statistic about 200 hours of service being ārequiredā?
I was waitlisted, and Iām trying to analyze which parts of my app didnāt hold up to standards (75th percentile SAT, 3.98 GPA, Eagle Scout, leader in 3 organizations, only 5s and 4s on APs). My hours in 2015 were definitely above 200, but not in the years before.
Iām not trying to say I should have been admitted. I just want to understand what I did wrong. I empathize with OP, but Iām not angry - just confused and quite sad.
I had 25 hours of community service and was accepted
From Notre Dame Magazine:
It DOES make a difference if you are Catholic. The article is several years old, but I donāt have any evidence that they have changed that perspective. Do you?
@wneely16: Consider the possibility that there wasnāt a part of your application that you did wrong. As a waitlist candidate can you do something to change your status? What are the directions given on the waitlist signup? Can you add material? Can you write a letter telling them you are serious about attending? Can you talk to your school CC and ask if they can advocate for you? My kidsā school CC would call ONE school on a waitlist for a kid, if that kid would for sure go there. Apparently it helps, if the school has a good relationship with the admissions office.