<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I wonder if I graduate from Harvard Law School with a decent GPA but speak with accent and am Asian, will I be able to attain partner positions in law firms? Will I be discriminated against? Is it more difficult for Asians to become partners compared to their American counterparts?</p>
<p>Some of the attorneys can better answer this, but my guess is that it depends on the law firm. You can find how many partners are minorities (nalpdirectory.com has this information) - be sure to compare that with the percentage of law school graduates who are minorities (say, about 10 years ago). </p>
<p>There are minority job fairs - some firms will recruit more actively or heavily from those. Again, nalpdirectory.com will have information on where firms recruit. </p>
<p>Aside from what firms will do (in terms of discrimination), there is also the reality that people who bring in business make partner.</p>
<p>If you are fluent in another language (like Chinese/Japanese/Korean), then it's a bonus for you. A lot of big law firms are global and have offices in Asia, so working there is another possibility (it's actually quite sweet, because you get an American salary but the cost of living in Asia is often much lower). Other than that, all I can say is, it's getting more diverse at the top, but it's still mostly white males. </p>
<p>I interned at a very big global corporate law firm (Top 15 in the world) and while the associates were pretty diverse, partners were like 90%+ white and 80%+ men or something.</p>
<p>Your GPA, while relevant to the hire decision for an associate at a law firm, is wholly irrelevant to making partner. Your capacity to bring new clients to the firm, specialized legal expertise and other intangibles (including whether "your face fits in") are the principal factors in who makes partner.</p>
<p>Or you could work at a law firm in a foreign country. My family had dinner with a couple of people. In one of the families, the husband was a lawyer and the woman was a lawyer too. They were both about 40-50 yrs old. I am pretty sure they were both partner-level. They had a Volvo XC90, which is 35k here in America but 990,000 Yuan there which, when you divide by 8.1, is $122,222.22 . There are also no leases in China. They probably don't pay signficantly less than American law firms, if any less at all.</p>
<p>Hmmm. I wonder whether working in the foreign law firms requires local bar. If, say, I pass a bar exam in New York and then go to work in Hongkong or Shianghai, do I have to learn about Hong Kong's or Shianghai's legal system?</p>
<p>here's o'melveny & myers' list of partners, counsels, and associates at their los angeles office, which is their main one. very sparse # of asians as partners, and more as you move down the ladder. you can use that website to check out the partners at other offices too. </p>
<p>If you can, you should probably try to drop the accent. I seriously doubt there would be any conscious discrimination based on race,but not being able to speak English at the fluency of an American graduate student--or appearing unable because of your accent may hurt you.</p>
<p>You should be extremely comfortable speaking in English so you can draw in clients. Like another poster said, your GPA is irrelevent once you actually start working in law firms--ability and charisma are what counts then.</p>
<p>Does international student (no permanent residency) status factor into law school admissions? if so, are there any statistics?</p>
<p>Law firms are businesses. You will make partner based on your ability to bring in money to the firm. Some larger firms will cut some slack to women and minorities in order to be politically correct, but that is only if they are still bringing in sufficient revenue to the firm. If you able to be a financially successful lawyer, you won't have to worry about race, accent, or whether you have 7 fingers on each hand.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Some larger firms will cut some slack to women and minorities in order to be politically correct
[/quote]
Any chance of getting ANY sort of justification for this? Any sort of data? Sources? </p>
<p>It is my understanding that minorities and especially women do not receive any slack in the partner decisions. I heard a story about a woman who was taken off the partner track when she got engaged because the firm was worried that she would have children and leave. </p>
<p>You can find data at nalpdirectory.com. I've looked it over, and it's pretty obvious that men and whites have a huge advantage for making partner. Some firms have a 7 men: 1 woman ratio for partner. More common is 5:1; the best I've seen at East Coast firms is 3:1 (the latter being, IMO, "not bad" considering that it is fairly reflective of the ratio of men & women in the legal profession). I just can't see how those few women got any sort of advantage. </p>
<p>Do the math. Median age for law school admits is in the mid-twenties; graduation is then around what, 27 or 28? Partner tracks are about seven or eight years long - if a woman wants a kid, she's not going to feel very comfortable in waiting until she makes partner - 35 is the age where risk of birth defects goes up and fertility decreases.</p>
<p>Feminist rant over.</p>
<p>damn straight!</p>
<p>I would say just go back to the Asian country where you are from, because prospects will be a lot better there. Here in America, everyone's on the same playing field. In an Asian country, your education from America is worth substantially more; that is not to say that firms there will pay you insane amounts just for coming from America, but it does mean that you will be given more opportunities to succeed, but you'll still have to work hard.</p>
<p>Working here, you will have to worry about the possibility of discrimination, employers obviously won't discriminate against you outright, but they may do it in small places, sometimes even subconsciously. Why put up with this? Are you going to let a Partnership after working 5-7 years for 100hr/week pass you by because of your race?</p>
<p>I don't know what Asian nationality you are, but I will use the only example that I do know firsthand. China's economy is growing at 8-9% a year, everything is quick. I was in Beijing in June and there is no slow of construction, there are and will continue to be many opportunities for people with JDs and MBAs in China.</p>
<p>I may be a little bias as I have been through a lot, and sadly as a result, have become less trustworthy of the people in America. I personally, would never want to work here professionally.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Any chance of getting ANY sort of justification for this? Any sort of data? Sources?
[/quote]
I can't offer any data or sources. My comment is a personal opinion based on years of obervation of the legal profession. If you don't agree, please disregard. I will add that what I have observed is this: In smaller firms, personality and lifestyle fit may play a greater role in making partner (or the equivalent). In larger firms, how much money you can bring in usually determines whether or not you make partner. If you can be the most brilliant female attorney in the world but if you are not bringing in the money, you will lose out to the dumb male attorney who brings in the big bucks. When I say cut some slack to women and minorities, I am referring to situations where large male white firms are feeling pressure from clients or the community to add women and minorities. The firms then lower their revenue standards for women and minority attorneys. This is not to suggest that the women and minorities admitted are lesser attorneys. That is rarely the case. The only difference is a lower revenue base. Like, I say -- law is a business.</p>
<p>Some posters suggested that one can go back to his native country with a Harvard JD and make tremendous money. That may be possible for people who came to the US for grad school only, but for those who came here in their adolescent/teenage years, there is no way that they can go back and practice law in their native language. </p>
<p>I guess the point I'm trying to make is that for those who came to the US when they were at ages 8-13 or so and still retain accents, going back to their native country is not a viable option.</p>
<p>what if one learns the "foreign" language, study abroads, etc., goes to law school, and then decides to practice in that foreign country even though they were born in the USA? does that sound feasible or realistic? or would that person be more "successful" in the USA?</p>
<p>Hum... maybe they "lower revenue standards" for women... who have taken maternity leave?? Taken all of her sick time to stay home with her kid when he has the flu?? Hum... might be "lower revenue," but it's not because she's not good at what she's doing. </p>
<p>IMO, if firms are doing what you are saying, it's so they won't get sued for discrimination. Look at the stats... you can't convince me that there is such a dearth of qualified women lawyers that law firms need to have 7 male partners for every female partner and the only reason that they even have said 1/8th female partnership is becuase it give those women preferential treatment. That conjecture is beyond all rational thought.</p>