<p>I am stumped here, this is a first for me.
My daughter who is applying to very competitive ivy league schools has a classmate, not someone she is friendly with, other than as an acquaintance who ironically is applying to a few of the top schools my d. is. I say ironically because this other girl was in my daughters private school for 9th grade but stole a final exam and posted to internet with others (charged a fee, to boot for anyone to access the information), but she was the mastermind: she was expelled but the school apparently agreed to keep it "under wraps" because the parents were both alumni of the school, this had many outraged.
Fastforward a few years, our girls have ended up at the same school (other girl just came last year- in hopes of drawing more attention from recruiters to her athletic prowess) and this girl is now a very good athlete who is trying to get recruited to my daughters top choice, they now both attend the same small school. She does not have the grades my daughter does, but has the edge of the sports. My daughter who is very out spoken and self righteous (both in a good and sometimes bad way) wants to tell the perspective college about this girls "past history." It is well known that my d. and this other girl are the only ones that stand a real chance at this school and they have never taken more than 1 from any graduating class at our school.
As much as I feel they should know and it is ridiculous that the past school refuses to address it, I just can't bear affecting this girls chances at a college, because on one hand I feel like who I am to judge whether or not she deserves to get in? But the truth be told, at the same time I will, I must admit, be upset and heartbroken for my d. if the other girl gets in and daughter does not.
It is my d. that has spent the last 4 years being an honest, upstanding, top student and school leader, she doesn't have the sports to fall back on, but she has oodles of integrity and is highly respected in her school, furthermore, she is very involved in a few very high profile EC's and overall is a great candidate. I understand her temporary pandemonium, as time is nearing but I have made it clear she cannot do this. Any thoughts or advice on how you would handle it or if any of you have been in a similar situation?</p>
<p>Keep it to yourself. Your daughter is not a victim here. And remember she is not competing against this one applicant, but several hundred (or thousands) of applicants. And ask yourself–does someone with “oodles of integrity” really want to rat out a fellow applicant?</p>
<p>Do you know about the Buddhist precept of “right speech”? I find it helpful when I’m trying to figure out whether to say something. Among other things, it’s a way to avoid regrets.</p>
<p>There are many different interpretations of right speech. Here’s one guide to use when deciding whether something you are thinking of saying is really right speech:</p>
<p>“It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will.”</p>
<p>I think if your daughter were to say something, it would fail on several of these dimensions.</p>
<p>Do not communicate with colleges about your daughter’s classmate. Take a look at this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/565006-parents-who-rat-out-competitor-applicants.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/565006-parents-who-rat-out-competitor-applicants.html</a></p>
<p>Top colleges need top athletes. Top colleges need top students. (Sometimes, of course, top athletes are top students as well.) Even HYP sometimes take more than one student from even the tiniest of schools. Our family knows this from personal experience.</p>
<p>There is ONLY downside for you and your daughter in worrying about this AND even repeating it to others. </p>
<p>Concentrate on your own case and let the chips fall where they are supposed to.</p>
<p>Yeah, you don’t know enough about the other girls life to screw around with her life. Your daughter should make her app as good as possible, may the best kid win. She may have learned her lesson and be a really good person, you don’t know. And screwing her over really only increases your daughters chances by some .000001 chance, since you compete with all kids nationwide.</p>
<p>I think I have to make it clear I am not at all for her doing this, she is hellbent though. I know if she really wanted to do something she technically could and it could even be without my ever finding out, I hope she wouldn’t’ though. I just keep talking to her about it…and hoping it is all sinking in, even if she doesn’t want to admit it to me. I know she is upset and feeling very vulnerable right now, saying things like “all the work I did to get into _______” was all in vain when this girl comes along and might well steal my chance. I know she is frustrated, however with luck, she will get in and if not I am almost sure she will have other great opportunities from equal schools, its just that when we visited this particular school, she for the first time really fell in love with everything about it…its a tough situation but I am all for what everyone else is saying…</p>
<p>Your D should not try to sabotage the other girl’s application, but rather work on her own relationships with counselors and teachers so she can ask them for strong “school support” for her application. </p>
<p>Even an “anonymous tip” to the college is likely to reverberate badly back to anyone who is applying to that college from your D’s school — someone will suspect that it comes from a rival, and if there is only one other applicant from your school, the suspicion for what looks underhanded and petty will fall on your D. </p>
<p>Also, the past misdeeds may not be enough to derail an application of the athletic skill is something the college wants/prefers over what other applicants have to offer, particularly as the information would be coming from an anonymous source and not reported by the school itself.</p>
<p>If your daughter were to tell the admissions officers about this other girl’s past history, it could make your daughter look bad. This is not a situation where the other girl has a history of behavior that endangers the safety of others. There is a difference between someone who starts fires, say, and someone who was involved in a cheating incident three years ago. Your daughter might look as though she is overly competitive and a tattletale if she tells on this girl.</p>
<p>I agree with Nick that your daughter should work on her own application and let the pieces fall where they may.</p>
<p>Also, if the Ivy in question happens to be Cornell, the two of them aren’t even competitors if they’re not applying to the same college within the university. Each college has a separate admissions office (although there is certainly some coordination in terms of special consideration for recruited athletes). The College of Arts and Sciences doesn’t know or care what the College of Human Ecology is doing (and the same for any other combination of the seven undergraduate colleges).</p>
<p>not entirely similar-but my D was like yours and wanted to go to Brown. They did accept 3 from her HS and two had deserving GPA’s/EC’s, etc. The third one did not at all but was a rower. Our GP refused to even make a call in her behalf because “they don’t like that”. Looking back-we should have gone past him and asked the principal to make the call. D called and sent extra materials but did not get off of the waitlist. I think your D needs to know that talking about her competition could completely backfire on her. She also needs to know what she CAN do-have the GC or an alum or the pricipal or…some others go to bat for her and maybe this year the school will accept two and she will be one of them. I do think your D will calm down if she feels she/you are stepping up and not just waiting for a rejection. GOOD LUCK! And if she has not interviewed on campus do try to get that accomplished.</p>
<p>“It is my d. that has spent the last 4 years being an honest, upstanding, top student and school leader, she doesn’t have the sports to fall back on, but she has oodles of integrity and is highly respected in her school, furthermore, she is very involved in a few very high profile EC’s and overall is a great candidate.”</p>
<p>I will add that there is no guarantee that either of the girls will get into their top Ivy League choices, despite stats or sports. Your daughter should proceed with her own applications and line up a bunch of other schools that she likes just as well.</p>
<p>There’s not a lot of rhyme or reason to this process. My daughter was fortunate to be accepted to the Ivy that she attends but was rejected by others as well as lesser ranked schools.</p>
<p>Maybe you could tell your daughter that when students do that, if can actually damage their own chances for admission. Even if she still badly wants to do it, she might be risk-averse. It also might reflect on her school’s reputation, which could hurt other students later on.</p>
<p>my first thought is to encourage your D to allow her character to shine through her app. try to make sure she has a balanced list and hope for the best. </p>
<p>I don’t think that it would be wise for you or your d to fink on the other girl. It may be an oversight on my part but it seemed that you were only interested in telling on her at the school to which she and you D are both applying. Unless you plan to find out every school she is applying to and tell each ad com about her 9th grade exploits it is disingenuous to only be interested in her dishonesty as it relates to her competition with your daughter. Please forgive me if I misread you.</p>
<p>Aside from all the really good points other posters have already flagged about this backfiring on your D, you should also consider that what she wants to do might be slanderous. Presumably what this other girl is accused of doing was handled privately, not in the newspapers. Even though all the other parents and kids think they know what happened, the girl was a minor and there is no way you all know what happened (especially if your D was not a really close friend of hers at the time). Unless your D was absolutely sure about every fact, spreading stories, relaying hearsay and accusing this girl of having committed a crime and/or otherwise being of low morals/ethics can rebound badly on you – in addition to reflecting poorly on your D. If your D is a minor, you’re responsible for her. That means if this girl and her family get wind of your D spreading stories that are untrue in any respect (for ex., if the Admissions office of the college asks her to explain and your D is the obvious source of the story), you might get sued. </p>
<p>Let it go. Life is sometimes unfair. Either your D will get in on her own merits or she won’t.</p>
<p>As others have said the best thing your D can do is to work on her own application to this school. Hopefully, the GC and teacher recs will state your Ds attributes helping to make her total admission packet strong.</p>
<p>Here’s another reason why your daughter should ignore the other girl:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Your own words indicate that the other girl is “is trying to get recruited” and changed schools “in hopes of drawing more attention from recruiters.” This does not amount to much promising! Since both girls are now HS seniors, there is a good chance that the athlete won’t see much recruiting. Fwiw, most of the recruiting activity takes places well before applications are due.</p>
<p>In addition to concurring with what everyone else has said, I would observe that if the other girl is hoping to be a recruited athlete, she is not in competition with your daughter in any meaningful sense.</p>
<p>If you are concerned about how your daughter is feeling about the situation and handling it, consider that YOUR feelings and attitude are probably playing a key role in hers. </p>
<p>The odds of either one girl getting into a particular school are very low. One ought to not fall in love with one school for that very reason. </p>
<p>Moreover, they aren’t competing with each other but thousands of others. What evidence do we have on CC or elsewhere that universities have quotas on schools? (Just because only ONE gets in each year from this HS says nothing about quotas, only about how hard it is for kids to get into a given college). I’ve read repeatedly that they do not. If your D doesn’t get in, you will never know WHY it was: to hang it on this other girl is to set yourself up for misery. </p>
<p>Wherever your D goes life is going to be like this. There will ALWAYS be someone competing with her, whether she knows them personally or not. Some will ‘deserve’ to do so, some will not; some who do not deserve to win actually will. Life is not fair. Learning to handle this kind of situation with grace and maturity is a great lesson that can come from this.</p>
<p>
Not!!! Pressuring a principal to make a call would have been a waste of time. :eek:</p>
<p>I’ll add my voice to the others here - it can’t help your daughter to comment in any way on another applicant. Even if your daughter is rejected and her competitor is accepted, it won’t necessarily be because the two of them applied from the same high school. No one outside of the admissions committee ever really knows the reasons behind admissions decisions.</p>
<p>Best of luck to your daughter. Ivy League schools are indeed very competitive, and several have single-digit acceptance rates. I hope your daughter will heed the unanimous advice here, and tend to her own application instead.</p>