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UCLA and UC Berkeley's applications are strictly number driven. There are no essays involved in admissions decisions.
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<p>Having applied to, and gotten into both (in the past), I can assure you that this is not true at all. I did have to write essays.</p>
<p>Looks at who got into top 20 schools in my son high school in the prvious few years, I agree that I can not figure out why someone got into HYPSM. They might have some special talent that I don't know. But it is much easier to predict who will get into Rice, Duke or Cornell based on class rank.</p>
<p>Most of the kids that I know of who went to HY from my Ds school were legacies. All were on the Debate team, some state and nationally ranked. </p>
<h1>4 in the class last year was accepted at Stanford. #2 went to MIT. Val went to Baylor on a full ride scholarship. #3 is a Dean's scholar at UT, received NMF plus other scholarship package. Pretty close to full.</h1>
<p>It is naive in the extreme to believe that application fees are a profit center for a university. The cost of all those people in each office; the dozens of temps who work during the "envelope season" as the apps come flooding in by the truckload; the travel budget, etc- these are huge, and the application fee serves to discourage the unrealistic rather than to fuel the bottom line.</p>
<p>If reading thousands of trite essays about "I didn't make the varsity soccer team but I learned a lot about life in the process" leads to finding one singular voice of a kid who could make a substantial impact on a college-- that's why the human beings read the applications.</p>
<p>I'm with you, blossom.</p>
<p>Normal is boring. Students shouldn't be striving for normalcy.</p>
<p>My kid is at an Ivy and, unfortunately, he is far from normal! Sometimes I would KILL for "normal". There are degrees of everything....</p>
<p>What about normal people who happen to be prior service or current soldiers?
If normal was considered to be avg. testing, avg. EC's, and avg demographics, then would being in the military make someone a good candidate for Ivy Leagues/Top 20 Universities? (other than the absolutely best military colleges such as the USMA)</p>
<p>If you make it out alive from the military, it's great experience. Military experience certainly will shape you, make men out of boys, example Colin Powell. It's like Deep Springs times 10.</p>
<p>Well, it's hardly like Deep Springs, which is entirely run by its students, which does not apparently have a macho culture at all, and which does not (unlike the military) admit women.</p>
<p>But, yes, I would guess that military experience is a huge plus in an Ivy League application. I would also guess that there aren't that many applicants who have it. In part, that may be because the population of high school students with the credentials to go to Ivy League colleges, and who are also interested in the military, are either going to service academies, or going to college first (with or without ROTC) and then joining the military as officers.</p>
<p>I meant the disciple and self-reliant part. I know it's not coed.</p>
<p>of course normal kids get in!....i know below average kids at Ivys right now its that simple</p>
<p>My nephew who joined ROTC in 2001 (prior to 9/11) went active after he graduated to avoid the unlimited and almost unpaid tours in Iraq. He wanted to be in the military, just not without a contract. </p>
<p>He went directly into officer training in the Airforce, graduated #1 in his class and they have put him into even higher level training. I'm not surprised, he was a candidate for West Point and didn't have the stamina for the physical endurance try outs. He was so sure that he was going to get in that he didn't apply anywhere else. West Point suggested ROTC he applied to U OK (as a NMF he was an automatic admit with a full ride). Never went to West Point but after a year out of school started his officer's training program.</p>
<p>I'd like to counter Menloparkmom's assertion about 20K applications not being read by warm bodies and that HY want more apps because of $.</p>
<p>I know for certain that Y rolled out a new "Ambassadors" program where kids from underrepresented schools and districts would be given a stipend to go home during Thxngiving and Xmas breaks and speak to a list of untraditional schools (poor, rural, urban, etc). This process (and their FA expansion) is designed to get the diamonds in the rough. They are expending LOTS of money just to get a few more kids who will need full FA packages.</p>
<p>Y and H are in the nice positions to have astronomical endowments (Y just hit near $23B) so when someone says that for them to improve they need to get more applicants from underrepresented populations, they'll go out and get them.</p>
<p>Another case in point: Y is currently expanding its Alumni office by about 50% staff and over $1M annual budget increase. And Y's Alumni office is SEPARATE from their Development (fundraising) office so there's no direct return on investment. The alumni focus is solely to better engage alums in the field -- which the university feels will make it a stronger and more vibrant institution. With deep pockets, Y can pursue philosophical and intangibles like that.</p>
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Y and H are in the nice positions to have astronomical endowments (Y just hit near $23B) so when someone says that for them to improve they need to get more applicants from underrepresented populations, they'll go out and get them.
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<p>I give Yale and Harvard (and Princeton) credit for being in earnest when they say they want more low-income applicants and more low-income enrollees. They have endowments that make that financially possible, and they have admission deans who desire that. </p>
<p>Harvard</a> University Gazette: Harvard expands financial aid for low- and middle-income families </p>
<p>Yale</a> and Socioeconomic Diversity | News | Office of Undergraduate Admissions </p>
<p>Harvard</a>, Princeton, Virginia Lure Low-Income Students (Bloomberg) </p>
<p>These efforts are supported at the highest levels of the university administrations. </p>
<p>After edit: The U of Chicago, certainly a "Top 20" university in my opinion although not part of the Ivy League, received an alumnus gift that should allow it to join this club of universities actively seeking low-income students. </p>
<p>23 billion at 1% interest = 230 million
1000 students x 50000/year x 4 years = 200 million
That would leave 30 million to help low income high school students to prepare for the rigors of college.</p>
<p>These universities have great Economics departments, I'm sure their investments do a lot better than 1%.</p>
<p>"I know for certain that Y rolled out a new "Ambassadors" program where kids from underrepresented schools and districts would be given a stipend to go home during Thxngiving and Xmas breaks and speak to a list of untraditional schools (poor, rural, urban, etc). This process (and their FA expansion) is designed to get the diamonds in the rough. They are expending LOTS of money just to get a few more kids who will need full FA packages."</p>
<p>Harvard does the same exact thing.</p>
<p>The Crimson has been running a 3 parter on what it means for students on HFAI to navigate two worlds. So far, two of the 3 articles have been published. They could be more tightly written, but suggest that it's not easy living between two very different worlds.
Learning To Live by Harvard’s Rules
From Detroit to Cambridge, bridging the opportunity gap
The</a> Harvard Crimson :: News :: Learning To Live by Harvard’s Rules</p>
<p>Holding Old Ties, Wearing New Ones
Transitioning to Harvard is harder when you’re worried about who’s left behind
The</a> Harvard Crimson :: News :: Holding Old Ties, Wearing New Ones</p>
<p>THANK YOU, Marite. What a great set of links. </p>
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<p>"Those are really the only skills that Harvard will really provide," Barnhill says. "I mean, the education is great, but it's impractical."
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<p>That's a very interesting perspective on the value of a Harvard education.</p>
<p>I doubt much is made on app fees. The cost of apps have not gone up that much, certainly not in proportion to tuition and other costs from when I applied to college more than 50 years ago. And some mightly fine colleges are waiving fees whatsoever if you apply on line. I know kids who are on fee waivers can do well by just applying the waivers to the 4 most expensive schools and choose the rest of their schools from those with low or no app fees. It's the danged visits that the smaller schools are now requiring to show "demonstrated interest" that are the killers. It's all very good and well to encourage kids to apply outside of their "comfort zone" area wise, but the travel time, distance and expense on apps alone can add up significantly.</p>