My daughter attended her reach school and made dean’s list first semester.
This is a question we are currently grappling with. As a recruited athlete, D will have a very good shot at some schools that she might otherwise not have gotten into, meaning her scores would put her in the bottom 25% of the class coming in. She is very hard-working, pretty ambitious, but not a particularly fast worker. I am concerned about her ability to keep up with the workload more than the work itself, though the complexity of the tasks might also be an issue. However, gauging workload in advance of attendance is very hard to do. D has asked about the workload and their high school preparation to every tour guide and every student athlete who has written to help recruit her. To the person the response has been the standard: “It’s all about time management.” Well sure. but…
Some of you may have seen my recent thread on the topic of assessing workload. One school where the coach has promised to essentially throw a fit with admissions to get her in, should that be necessary which I don’t think it will, seems a good fit on paper. However, consistently the student feedback online and a bit on College Confidential is that the workload is very intense. As of now, that concern moves the college lower on D’s list. But what if it’s actually no different from its peer schools but just loves to brag about how hard it is for some reason, or else all the pre-meds just complain a lot and that skews the surveys?
@TheGFG Why don’t you check with the alumni network at D’s school? Surely you can find someone who attends/attended any of the colleges in question who can compare the workload between high school and college.
I know the ivies say any recruited athlete with a ACT of 32 or above will succeed.
@TheGFG That’s very interesting. I know most people say it’s about time management, and effort, but a recruited athlete will have even less time than an average student. I totally see where you’re coming from. I wonder if it’s possible to speak with the coach, who has probably recruited people who are bottom 25% before, and ask how many have not survived? And as she’s a pre-med, maybe even what the average GPA is of these kids? Survival isn’t good enough to get into med school, even from a great undergrad. Coaches usually do have this info.
Just looked up the recent stats for enrolled freshman at my D’s school. Middle 50% for ACT is 27-30, with 39% scoring 30-36. My D has a 29. She may have been put off by the 39%, but that doesn’t really put her “below average” anymore. Another data point for our chat. 
To clarify, D will not be pre-med, but the school in question attracts a lot of pre-meds.
Got it – sorry I misunderstood. Her GPA’s much less critical then.
But usually athletes have very good time management skills. And support from coach and team as well.
^^^ totally agreed – my gymnast daughter practiced 6 days/week 20-25 hrs/week and barely said hello in the afternoon before pulling out the books to squeeze in a few hours of homework before practice. Even so, it’s less overall available time, and less down time to sleep and simply catch their breaths. Back to “it depends.”
I think athletes need more than just time management. They still need time to replenish their mental and physical strength.
@mathmom "Practically everyone raised their hands. He then reminded them, this wasn’t high school, 90% of them were not going to be in the top 10% and that was okay. "
In my experience, a big chunk of the kids that are actually the best are in the small group who did not raise their hand. Many of the very best students are focused on what they are doing and learning, and don’t really care how they compare to others.
First, the fact that you are concerned about this issue, and are discussing it with your daughter significantly reduces the risk that there will be a problem.
Second, there is one scenario where I can see this train wreck coming a mile away. That is when the student:
- Is in the bottom quartile for gpa and test scores
- Did not have the level of high school rigor that other students had
- Selects a difficult major
- Views admission as a reward and thinks they can coast now
The first three items can be managed, if dealt with properly, but The last item is the kiss of death. This situation is very unlikely to go well.
More than one of my kids has attended a reach and by reach I mean a top private college. In my experience, most public flagships, even the more competitve ones, are meant to be accessible to good students with good preparation.
I think when the student does not have disabilities, has attended a good high school and has a solid background like yours does and when the student is working (in other words, it’s not a kid who is underachieving because they simply aren’t doing the work), the downside to attending a reach school is that it decreases options. What do I mean by this? Generally speaking, I think the student may have to limit their choice of majors to areas that come easy to them. So a kid who is not very good at writing will struggle in English and humanities courses at a school that is a writing-intensive reach. A kid who studied and tutored their way through AP Chem with a B will struggle against pre-meds at one of the most competitive colleges. If your child is set on his or her major or has consistently been interested in areas that are his or her strong point, it should work out well. Also, there will likely be a decrease in opportunities in that the reach student is unlikely to be at the top of the class at the reach school so may not be winning those coveted awards/ fellowships/ opportunities.
If the student has an ld, I would say the most important factor is the school’s willingness to provide the needed accommodations. This trumps every number out there: % admitted, average gpa, average test score.
@2collegewego Excellent points. D is undecided with her major now, not set on anything. She has shown interest and aptitude in math and physics in the past, but I’m sure those can be very tough majors. In general I’ve been impressed with her HS and I believe she has a solid background; we’ll have a better idea when AP Calc test results come back…I would very much want her to try a bunch of things and see both what makes her happy and what she’s successful at.
GFG, in other threads you have posted about the high pressure and ridiculously high workload of your d’s high school. Would the college truly be any more so? For some of the very top NJ high schools, kids say that college has much less work than their AP and honors HS classes.
Good luck to her!
mom2and, we are actually looking to ensure an easier workload! D has had enough of that he** and wants life balance. Just yesterday I wrote e-mails to an adcom and former adcom at the college in question to better ascertain how “rigorous” is rigorous.
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I think student temperment is so important on this issue. My twins couldn’t be more different in this regard. D is excited to be surrounded by smart, engaged peers. She applied to a number of high match/reach schools, will happily matriculate at one of them, will work hard, and wIll likely be very comfortable being in the middle of the pack in a smart setting.
My S, otoh, was so cowed by admission stats that he applied almost solely to low match/safeties. Didn’t want rejections. He’s now choosing between 2 where he is likely to be at or above the 75%ile. He knows himself, and knows that he performs better when he is confident and feels competent in a setting. I wish he were more resilient, but I’m glad he knows himself.
I went to an elite college, back in the day when mere mortals could get in, and I saw both temperaments. Esp. in pre-med I saw kids who looked at the competition, hunkered down, and excelled, and I also saw the kids who got depressed, changed majors, dropped out. Resilience is just as important as a strong work ethic.
GFG - Sounds like a similar situation to ours. DS is an athlete and STEM major at a reach school. While his test scores were good, I often credit them to the strength of his prep school and was concerned that the intellectual disparity between him and his peers could be even greater than imagined. On the plus side, he is doing just as well as his brilliant roommates, but he credits this to his ability to recognize that he’s NOT the smartest person in the room and to seek help whenever and wherever possible (big focus at his prep school). Some of his roommates were unwilling to seek help or attend help sessions first semester; however, that tide is changing this semester. Kids observe what’s working/not working from their peers and figure it out.
Another bonus for athletes is that they take criticism well - whether it’s from their coach or their Linear Algebra professor. For some students, they are getting criticized for the first time, which can be a tough adjustment.
One other important caveat that has been stated elsewhere - we made sure he was comfortable with the idea of being “in the middle or bottom of the pack” before he made his decision. As others have said, hard work seems to be more of a determining factor than pure intellectual ability.