I’d say not. The problem is that an “A” and one school isn’t the same as an “A” at another. Teaching methods also differ. My siblings report that college-level courses differed dramatically from APs. Which is one reason a growing number of universities are no longer giving credit for them, and those that do will not excuse you from core or required courses.
Depends on the kid.
My DD was accepted at several reach college (test scores put her in the bottom quartile). She opted for Barnard and graduated summa cum laude (top 5%) and phi beta kappa.
My DS messed up at a match college (test scores well above 75th percentile). Turns out that standardized test-taking skills aren’t all that useful in a college environment.
The qualities that count are self-discipline, being goal-oriented, and ambitious. If the kid goes in expecting hard work, and is willing to put in effort --then there’s a high likelihood that the kid will do well.
I’d note that my DD also pushed herself and took risks at her college – signing up for upper level courses her first semester-- which led to a couple of B’s. It wasn’t that the course work was too difficult, it was that she wasn’t yet aware of the quality of work the profs expected to see in papers and midterms. Once DD realized that she needed to ramp up the effort – to put her best effort into everything - she was fine.
It’s true that half the kids at any college will graduate at the bottom half of their class… but that really has very little to do with where they started. My DD did much better than many of her very close friends from Barnard & Columbia (with similar majors and much, much higher SAT scores coming in) – but the bottom line was that the friends did a lot more partying and slacking off.
I do agree with other posters that the experience of STEM majors is probably different from humanities/social sciences. My DD writes well, always has. That’s really the primary skill needed to do well outside of math and science, where most of the grading ends up being based on essays and papers.
@LBowie and the NPR story make the crucial point–as does Malcolm Gladwell in this interview http://www.wnyc.org/story/malcolm-gladwell-battling-giants/
The issue is not succeeding in terms of grades… the issue is the impact of the comparison that the student consciously or subconsciously makes between him/herself and his/her peers. Being in courses filled with students who are “better” than oneself can have a significant negative impact on outcome which is a really important point to consider. It may be that students are significantly better off not attending the “best” school they get into.
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My take on this: depends on the kid and the major. For STEM fields, the reach schools - I’m thinking state flagships, in particular- for a particular kid could potentially be cut-throat competition, esp. in Engineering. The STEM teaching and attitudes have not changed changed much since I went to Big Flagship 30 years ago…
Many kids at these Engrg. schools were groomed for Ivy level work (but didn’t get in) and a kid without the BC Calc, AP physics etc. etc. could be underwater pretty fast. YMMV - check out the demographics and SAT scores of the STEM part of the reach college if that’s what the student is aiming for. DS1 is stem-type kid, but is not a tippy-top student. We are looking at mid level universities where his stats are in the middle or top of the pack.
LOL, @Pheebers this has turned into a great thread, with the overall message that- as it seems everything does with kids!- “it depends” 
@mathprof63 That’s a very interesting perspective, especially as my daughter doesn’t know what she wants to study, but has recently shown an interest in math and physics. We’re actually talking about a small LAC, not an Ivy, but with some tough sciences. They’re very oriented towards helping students (although don’t you hear that at all small LACs?) so I suspect that if she sought the help she’d be able to get it.
I am certain that this school is a safety for prep school kids who didn’t get into Ivies. I agree 100% on that.
I also suspect that what @Marian said about not overdoing, particularly freshman year, is spot-on. Putting thought into her schedule, not trying to jump ahead with AP credits and not overdoing math & science makes tons of sense. And @ucbalumnus said exactly what I was thinking:
What I don’t know is the mental side of things. She’s used to hard work & perseverance. Until recently she was a successful serious competitive gymnast, where she was surrounded by arguably more naturally talented people, and where you have to fail at a skill 2000 times before you get it. She’s taken a few non-honors classes as electives because she was interested in the subject and that’s the only way they were offered (e.g. Zoology) and she loved the very easy A but not the peer interaction. I could see it going either way.
@collegemom3717 I agree, there’s no definitive answer, and it’s a supremely helpful thread. I think a lot of the battle is thinking of the questions to ask before you make the decision, and CC is very good at helping with that. 
It is a great deal about ambitions. If you love a challenge, you want to develop, you want to go places…then you would be much better off at a reach school where not only teachers but also students will continuously keep you moving ahead…and remember that one of the most important aspects of college is networking…that will likely be more interesting at a reach school…again if you want to go places:)
It depends on why it is a “reach”. UNC -CH is a “reach” for all OOS students, but once there it isn’t any more difficult than any other large state flagship. a kid who gets into UNC should do just as well as he would at his own state flagship.
However, a “match” large state flagship that offers huge intro (STEM) classes of 300 students in a lecture hall might be the death of a person who is better suited for smaller classes. If a kid likes the idea that the Prof. for his Bio 101 class might greet him by name when they cross paths randomly on campus and always has time to talk, a smaller “reach” might be less of a struggle than a “match” huge university.
So, as in everything else on CC, it depends.
I was out with a friend last week who has a son at Georgetown and she said he loves it there but he works like a dog to keep up but wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Wouldn’t the courses with pre-meds be the most cutthroat, due to the need for pre-meds to get very high GPAs to have a chance of getting into any medical school? Wouldn’t the cutthroat behavior in engineering vary based on whether most or all frosh intending engineering majors are admitted to first year pre-engineering and must compete by GPA to enter their majors*, compared to being admitted directly to their majors?
*Examples include Purdue, Texas A&M, Washington, Virginia Tech, Minnesota, and Wisconsin (admits to major, but students must earn high GPAs to stay in the major, which is functionally equivalent to pre-engineering students needing high GPAs to get into the major).
I agree with this 100% and it was the experience of my kids also.
I have a story to tell about someone I know who decided to enroll in a school where she was entering at the bottom of her class.
Five years ago, I was dealing with this issue when I volunteered to help an URM student with her college application. She was attending one of the best public schools in a New York City suburb that offered lots of APs; she took none because of her learning disabilities.
Her parents had divorced but her dad owned 4 McDonalds and had gone to uchicago as an undergrad, recruited to the wrestling team. Her mom wasn’t college educated and a receptionist. Initially, the dad didn’t want his D to apply to Chicago bc he was miserable there but both he and his wife, as well as D wanted Ivy League and peer schools no matter what I said. When she was rejected from Dartmouth ED, they added Chicago on the list, hoping the legacy would help her.
She had Cs on her transcript (overall B average), did little ECs, and on her third try had a 29 ACT with double time and was tutored a year for it at $240 an hour. I thought they were making a big mistake bc even if she got into such a school, how could she possibly survive, let alone succeed.
She was rejected by Dartmouth ED, tufts ED2, Tulane, Michigan, JHU, middlebury. Accepted to Dickinson, American, GW, and uchicago, and enrolled in the latter, even though I asked many of the questions posed here. Her scores and grades were at the bottom of uchicago’ class. Her mom told me something I’ve never forgotten: a kid who graduates at the bottom of their med school class is still a doctor, and even if her daughter graduated at the bottom of her class at Chicago, she’d still be a Chicago grad. I told them all to think hard about whether she’d be happy.
The upshot: She will graduate from Chicago as a sociology major in a few months and has accepted a job with Accenture, the global consulting firm (and interviewed for paralegal positions at top law firms such as Skadden). She didn’t participate in on campus ECs but did work at a local church. She had lots of support…Chicago even gave her someone to take her class notes for her.
Honestly, based on her high school scores and transcripts, I didn’t think she’d make it. But she did. Somehow, despite her lack of rigorous high school classes and her learning disabilities, she earned Bs and As at Chicago, doing better than she had in high school.
Resilient kids can really pull through. She may not be at the top of her class, but she has succeeded in a tough college environment, against what I thought were her odds.
I’ll never underestimate a kid again.
^^…and that’s why it’s so much an “it depends”. There are so many moving parts: many students do better in college than they did in HS- whether b/c of that frontal cortex maturing, or because they are better at bigger scale assignments than lots of little ones, or because they have more choice and can gravitate towards classes that play to their individual strengths or because they fall in with a more studious group of friends or a teacher/class captures their imagination and they find motivation they never knew they had…or many other reasons. As other posters have pointed out, some rise to asked to meet a higher standard, while a different kid loses self-confidence. There is so much pressure to get this big decision “right” - as if there is one “right” and no second chances. But there is more than one right, and if it turns out not to be a good fit transfers are not that big a deal.
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Thank you OP and thank you posters. This thread is a stellar example of how CC should work. Kudos to all for the insightful and helpful thread
My older son was at CMU - not as a reach particularly. At the CMU CS convocation the Dean of students asked who thought they would graduate in the top 10% of the class. Practically everyone raised their hands. He then reminded them, this wasn’t high school, 90% of them were not going to be in the top 10% and that was okay. He showed all the graphs and data that even kids in the bottom of the class did very well after they graduated. My son was on the Dean’s List the first year and then slacked off. He didn’t get any awards or honors at graduation, but he’s in his dream job now.
Younger son was in a reach for him school and took an overly demanding schedule as a freshman taking a wonderful course that took up way too much time. He struggled with his foreign language just as he did in high school. But in the end he had exactly the same grades he’d had in high school - mix of A’s and B’s (and one C) with much better grades as a senior than as a freshman. Unlike high school where he studied Latin, he was able to do an immersion experience in Jordan and actually got an A in Arabic his senior year.
Math mom, I think CMU’s SCS is a reach for anyone.
bookworm I think it is a complete myth to say that any one school or department is a reach for everyone. It may be a reach for many people but that is not everyone.
Long enough ago that it was moderately less reachy. But by not a reach, I mean that his GPA and scores put him solidly in the top 25% of the applicants. I had no worries he would be in over his head.
Proud parent, Yes, there are definitely some kids who have won national championships or have done amazing things while still in HS. Their abilities “are in the clouds”, as my son says.
I was referring to the 5% admit rate to SCS in 2015, & 147 enrolled. With 6753 students applying to that program, for most, not all, it is a reach.