My kids took Algebra I and Geometry in middle school. These classes do not appear on their HS transcript nor do they receive any high school credits. They started in Algebra II as HS freshman. The middle school grades are entered into the CSU application with no verification from the high school or middle school on grades entered. Grades are entered without providing proof. My kids applied during the 2014, 2016, and now 2018 application cycle.
@sbgal2011 Her high school transcript is accurate, her GC is not doing anything wrong. In our district you need 230 credits to graduate (so 60 a year with a 10 credit leeway) and all must be earned in high school. High school classes taken in middle school don’t count as high school credit, don’t go on the transcript and don’t count for high school GPA.
@svlab112 the difference is that last year when my older daughter applied, there was a separate area for 8th grade and lower classes and the grades didn’t factor in to the CP GPA. Now they are entered in 9th grade and do count.
And for a straight A student they dilute the capped GPA.
Both sons had the same scenario described by @svl112 and applied in 2012 and 2013.
I really think the Cal State Apply needs to get their act together and clearly show that these classes were taken in 7th and/or 8th grades and revert back to the old rules that were in place for the CSU Mentor app. Everything was clearly spelled out as long as read the instructions.
2017 applicant with 5 A-G classes in 9, 10 and 11th grade, all A’s would have:
(30*4 + 8)/30 =4.26 capped weighted GPA
With 3 middle school classes also A’s that becomes
(36*4 + 8)/36 = 4.22
Small but it does change it.
@VickiSoCal. We are having the same experience. My current senior’s GPA (compared to siblings who applied in prior years) is also diluted by the new reporting system. It’s certainly conceivable these differences could have an impact.
If they don’t check, how do they verify? I don’t get it.
@sethkuwen From what I read, they will not ask to verify middle school grades with a transcript unless those grades are on the HS transcript. So in many cases self-reported middle school grades will not be verified.
hmm, that defeats the purpose of entering the grades in the first place right.
I honestly think they didn’t think this through.
I’m curious as to the size of the school districts that do not include high school courses taken in 7th and 8th grade on the transcripts. Is it the bigger districts, the smaller ones, or is it random? Can we get a quick count on this?
Maybe it’s smaller districts so it’s not a significant number of students. However, if it’s L.A. Unified, they have more students than the rest of the top 10 school districts combined.That would matter a great deal if those students were allowed to self report with no verification needed.
My children were/are enrolled in Elk Grove Unified, which is in the top five in the state for enrollment: 62K+ students. EGUSD includes applicable 7th and 8th grade courses on the high school transcript.
4 large high schools in our district, no middle school classes/grades on the transcript.
I honestly don’t think they thought about the GPA ramifications of changing the reporting section.
I remember telling my kids in middle school not to panic too much about a particular grade because no-one ever sees those grades.
Also- middle school grades here are quarters, high school are semester, so that’s another mess. And, as I said, my younger daughter took Algebra 1 in elementary school. When hand written report cards came home.
Another weirdness- here Spanish is offered in middle school as Spanish 1A and Spanish 1B. So you have 8 quarters of Spanish 1 grades. How many would you record on the Cal Poly App and how would they be weighted compared to a kid who took Spanish 1 in 9th grade and only got 2 semester grades?
Re: Transcripts. Ours is another CA district that doesn't put 7th and 8th grade courses on the HS transcript. About 6K HS students. No idea what LAUSD does, but that would be interesting.
Re: Math Course Names. We’ll have a weird situation for S21 in a few years. Our junior highs now offer a “math compaction” course that squeezes “7th grade math,” “8th grade math,” and “Math I” into 2 years. Math I is somewhat analogous to Algebra I, as the sequence is now Math I, II, & III. So, 2/3 of 8th grade is essentially Algebra I. (In practice probably the whole 8th grade year was algebra, because really how much pre-algebra can advanced math students stand?)
The similar 2 year compaction sequence in HS for Math II, Math III, and Precalculus will at least be in the database of CA HS courses at hs-articulation.ucop.edu that the UC/CSU applications connect to. But, the junior high math courses won’t.
I agree with @VickiSoCal that they weren't thinking about the GPA implications when they built this new app, because isn't SLO the only (or one of 2) colleges in the system that include grades from 9th in the GPA.
Re: Spanish. Our district has juniors highs that do it both ways. At least one has Spanish 1 being taught at the same speed as in HS. Another school slows it (and French) down so that 2 years of junior high = 1 year of HS.
Re: “Why not just give rigor credit based on the highest math achieved?” Good idea, but complicated for many students. Does 1 or 2 years of Calc count the same? What if the highest level course is Linear Alg, Multivariable, or DiffEq–how do you balance those non-sequential courses? What about “electives” like Stats, Discrete Math, etc?
No schools in Oregon include any classes taken in middle school on the HS transcript, even if they were technically HS level classes. Why would they? It’s middle school.
I’m in total agreement with the rest of the posters who believe they simply didn’t think through the ramifications of changing the application.
Just to muddy the waters further, I talked to two different admissions counselors at CP, and got different answers. The first one said that middle school grades would count towards GPA, but then (confusingly) said that if my daughter couldn’t remember her grades, she could just enter “Pass” for the grade. The second counselor, however, was emphatic that they manually recalculate GPA, and are smart enough to figure out which of the 9th grade classes were middle school. I was relieved to hear that, but now with all the above discussion I’m starting to worry again. I know it’s not a huge deal, but in my daughter’s case, she goes from 36 semesters to 42, which drops her max CP GPA to 4.19. Not a huge difference, but in CS or SE could mean the difference between being admitted and not.
FWIW, as far as transcripts go, we’re in a smallish East Bay school district (2 HS with under 2000 students each) and we do not put MS grades on the HS transcript. Also, since her MS was trimesters, I’ll have her add either her MS or her HS as a separate trimester school on the app, so at least the MS grades will be separated from her HS grades a bit.
I do not buy any story that involves them manually recalculating GPA’s. Nope.
They manually calculate every single GPA, but as I understand it, only AFTER admission is offered.
I wonder why SLO has grade report requirement different than other than other CSU campuses and UC campuses?
I keep getting different response from the admissions officers whether the middle school grades matter. Also, they told me to input my middle school grades with letter grades even though I told them I can’t find my old transcript, so I don’t know my middle school grades. What do I do if I’m not getting consistent responses?
I would take down the names of all the individuals you have spoken with at SLO admissions.
Put down your middle schools grades as best you can if you cannot locate your transcript.
I agree with other posters, that is a huge oversight on the part of the Cal State apply people whom redesigned the application. On the old CSU Mentor app, they also asked for middle school grades but did not verify the information so hopefully they will default to the same method.
I know this is no consolation if you are denied. there is the appeal process and if you have documentation that you were getting conflicting information that should help your case.
SLO has always been the outlier when it comes to how they do admission decisions. They are also holding steady in maintaining their quarter system vs the rest of the CSU’s. I personally think they should just have their own on-line application to make everything more streamlined and easier for all applicants.