Our HS district in central California (two high schools of about 5000 students total) does not list middle school courses on the HS transcript at all; not Algebra I or Spanish or anything. CP Admissions said they were not surprised by that, but to self-report the 7th/8th grade math and foreign language on the application anyway. I plan to note it in the course title e.g. “Spanish 1 (middle school)” and “Algebra I (middle school)”. Our middle school used the trimester system so I am converting the letter grades to numeric, and taking the average of the first and second trimester to approximate a first semester grade, then repeating with the second and third trimesters to get a second semester grade. I’m hoping that if they see we are doing our best to be accurate it will count for something, even if it does dilute the student’s GPA overall.
This is most definitely a design oversight by Liaison International and Cal State Apply. It’s not the only one.
I, too, spoke to several different counselors about this and get different answers each time. I could not convince them that including 3 more Middle School courses would lower his GPA, even though he received all A’s. She insisted it was impossible to lower a GPA with all A’s and capped weighted courses, and I explained exactly how, and she kept saying "the GPA calculator is broken, don’t go by that…). SMH. All I could say to that was that it was clear they never had the same level of math. Ouch, I know. But she was insistent it wouldn’t change it.
Doesn’t give much confidence in the other reply that they “recalculate all GPA’s” taking those courses out. I highly doubt that. We all know this is a computer algorithm. Sure, they recalculate the GPA using a different formula than the others, but I can’t imagine they manually remove high school level courses taken in middle school. There should be a different way to report this to not include in in the GPA (like it’s been in the past, and as it is for the UC’s). Reporting it pass/fail, would maintain that higher GPA. But it would also be lying. I’m not even comfortable him listing it in the 9th grade section under his high school since that’s not where he took it.
The AO’s told me they Beta tested this system over the summer. Obviously, did not sample a big enough group. There are other issues with the new application as well. It’s all about “work arounds” now. Frustrating.
A person’s GPA isn’t “lowered” by adding more classes anymore than it is “raised” by adding more classes. That’s just all about the order in which the classes are entered. The total number of classes and the total grade points accumulated determine the actual GPA.
Think of it this way. If I have 10 classes and five are B’s and five are A’s with five being honors classes that’s forty points divided by 10 which equals a 4.0. If I start with doing the math with the regular B classes I would see my GPA go up as the A’s and honors are added in. If I start with the honors A’s, I would see it go down. All of that is an illusion. The GPA is the totality of acceptable classes and the points earned/allowed. Whether or not regular A’s “dilute” the 4.0+ GPA is just more of the same relative math. You’ll drive yourself to frustration thinking of it any other way.
More A’s dilute a straight A student’s Cal Poly GPA even if they are honors courses because of the GPA capping.
GPA of a straight A student = (4*x + 8)/x
which simplifies to 4 + 8/x
The bigger x is, the lower your GPA
@AMCdad I understand your logic but when the instructions are unclear, and the humans in charge of guiding inquiries give inconsistent answers depending upon who happens to answer the phone that day, the system is poorly designed, and with admission margins being so very thin, how these courses and grades are reported matters. It’s not semantics, it can be the difference between accepted or not.
@VickiSoCal you are absolutely correct, the more courses/grades a student enters, even with perfect scores, the lower the GPA. I have a friend who’s student’s GPA went from 4.13, down to 4.09 after entering middle schools grades.
@eyemgh curious if you know, with the max MCA points for math rigor is 5 years (10 semesters); wouldn’t it make sense to NOT report Algebra 1, and only report Geometry? That would be 2 less semesters to add to the dividing number helping to hold onto GPA points?
Also, for MCA rigor, does a year-long Community College course count for 2 years? For those taking Multi-variable Calc, Differential Equations, or Linear Algebra or other advanced CL math, don’t they get the fifth year anyway? Why even report Middle School courses/grades? Isn’t reporting MS courses and grades to help achieve rigor points? For those who have done 4 years of HS math, they need to report one more year of MS, so it makes sense. But for those in college math, seems like it hurts more than helps.
Finally, I read somewhere on this board that they doubted Cal Poly SLO would admit to the MCA being in existence, much less discuss it. It’s right on their web site. The fact they use it, not the formula. So why is it taboo to discuss it? Seriously, has anyone directly asked? This is a public institution; isn’t transparency is the law?
Sorry, @VickiSoCal, I missed one important point: It’s not really possible to take enough classes during sophomore and junior years to do so. Even with middle school grades and college courses, a student would have to take all four years of classes on a traditional schedule in just a two year period to be able to dilute it below a 4.2. Any student who can put together that many A’s is going to draw positive attention, not negative.
A student would have to take more than TWENTY semesters a year of A-G classes in both sophomore and junior year with all A’s to begin diluting a 4.2 GPA based upon the posted premise. The average UC qualified student at a block schedule school takes about 12 A-G classes a year. On traditional schedule it’s about 10 semesters.
Even with Cal Poly stretching things back to freshman year, it would be an outstanding student on block schedule who could dilute the GPA with A’s. That student would make up any minor point difference (4.17 versus 4.2) by maxing out the rigor points. The kids who take 8-10 AP classes in sophomore and junior year around here go to Harvard and Stanford.
My IB kid with 12 IB/AP weighted semesters her junior year was nowhere near qualified for Harvard and Stanford. She did get in to Cal Poly SLO and a few points here and there might have mattered.
@AMCdad my daughter’s school teaches semester courses in a trimester, so every year between english, math, science, soc studies, language, and band, she earns 12 semesters. In 9-11 that’s 36 semesters. She has straight A’s, so gets (436 + 8)/ 36 = 4.22. If you add in 6 semesters for Alg I, Geometry, and Spanish 1, then it’s 42 semesters, (442 + 8)/42 = 4.19. So yes it is possible for this to matter. In the grand scheme, 1/100 of a GPA point is worth about 5 MCA points. Not huge, but for CS that could be the difference between admission and not.
I don’t really believe they’ll look at the scores manually either, they’ll just go into the computer and out spits an answer. The only hope is that they built into their algorithm to detect multiple years of math and language in 9th grade, and filter out things like Alg I and Spanish 1. Given that it’s probably a low bid contractor writing the software, I’m not very hopeful though 
@VickiSoCal, the students I was talking about have 16-20 semesters per year (8-10 classes). 12 semesters a year in a block schedule school is normal for a UC qualified student. CP SLO students would fall into that same category.
@MelloG, I would think that the rigor bonus for the extra years of math and language would be worth 5 MCA points. The average GPA in the Engineering college at CP SLO is 4.16. A student would have to take 51 semesters of A-G classes before their senior year in order to fall below 4.16 with all A’s.
One of the things that is being lost in this conversation is that the public schools purposefully limit the “maxing out” of GPA in order to have more equity in the admission process. In the district where I teach, there is a significant difference in the number of Honors and AP classes offered from school to school. Certainly, there are even more differences between districts in the area even before considering how school size can affect opportunity. If students were allowed an unchecked (uncapped) opportunity to exploit GPA profiles, students from affluent districts and large schools would have even more of an advantage. Arguing about the fact that straight A’s can lower a weighted GPA is hard to fathom when your school might only offer 6 honors/AP classes total in the sophomore and junior years.
@AMCdad - I don’t understand how your comments above are relevant to this thread. No one here is requesting “uncheked (uncapped) opportunity to exploit GPA” We are merely asking for a level playing field that all courses and grades are reported the same. If one seeks equity in the admission process, you should be supporting the desire for clarity.
There’s also the fact that kids never thought a grade from sixth grade might be submitted to colleges. It’s crazy.
@catchastar, you are right that my last post does not fit this thread. It is just where the conversation took me. Read back to where it diverted and that will put it in context.
I think we all agreed long ago that the new application is confusing and should be fixed. This latest discussion isn’t about that. Good time to end the sidebar. Thanks.
I think it will look like “Just barely passing.”
Why can’t you contact your middle school for the transcript? If the school no longer exists, write that.
I was told to put my language classes as just passing because one year took place over 2 years. She said it wouldn’t’ count as part of the gpa.
It does not matter what it looks like. CP admission is not a judgement call.
What do you mean by “judgmental call”?
so will I not be penalized for just entering passed?
@sethkuwen what do you mean by “looks bad”?
Either it increases or decreases the MCA score or has no effect. What it looks like doesn’t matter.
It increases my MCA by 100 points, because my middle school grades are bad.
I never said “looks bad”…