<p>Robi: Wow. I'm so sorry. </p>
<p>Perhaps the only thing worse than having an abusive mother is having no one who believes you when you tell them about it.</p>
<p>Bay, who was the OP: Why did you ask your original question?? Can you share that with us?</p>
<p>Yes, let's hear it for our husbands, who listen to and support us in dealing with our troubled mothers.</p>
<p>This thread is sure growing fast -- I wonder if it's setting any records.</p>
<p>Here's a question: How can we avoid becoming self-absorbed (to the point of narcissism) as we get older?</p>
<p>I have experience with a narcissitic parent and even if there is no physical abuse, it can make family life miserable. </p>
<p>reflectivemom, like you I "separated" from my dad. One big reason is that I did not want my kids to think it was acceptable for someone (even "family") to constantly make sarcastic, condescending remarks to my husband---their father! What does that teach them about honoring their own dad? That it's OK to belittle their father as long as it's disguised as a "joke"? Um, no. After 20 plus years of my dear husband being a saint and taking the verbal abuse from my father, I cut him out of my life and it felt like a huge weight had been lifted.
A book about narcissists "Trapped in the Mirror" was helpful and so was counseling. Mostly to validate my own feelings and that it wasn't just me being overly sensitive or something. So helpful because narcissists are famous for making EVERYTHING somebody else's fault.
Because of course, they are perfect.</p>
<p>VeryHappy: Thank you. I appreciate your kindness.</p>
<p>SuNa: "Here's a question: How can we avoid becoming self-absorbed (to the point of narcissism) as we get older?"</p>
<p>Excellent question, and one I really want to keep in front of me for many years to come. It will need to be asked again and again.</p>
<p>I live with chronic pain, which I try hard to ignore and even harder to avoid mentioning to my kids. But sometimes I have to remind them of certain medical problems as reasons why I choose not to participate in some activities. I sure don't want them to think that I just don't want to go.</p>
<p>Dh & I have both had to deal with some medical issues that make our earlier dreams about retirement simply not feasible. We can still have a great life together, it will just be different than we planned. I do have much more sympathy for some long gone relatives who used to bore me with their health complaints and worries! </p>
<p>Right now, dh & I are both trying to rephrase our responses to whatever happens in a more positive manner. At the very least, we look at how things could be worse. Mainly, we're trying to think about what we can do rather than what we cannot and committing to be happy about having choices. We're also looking for ways that we can volunteer that don't require rigid schedules and are not beyond our physical capabilities.</p>
<p>Robi: I am so sorry about your childhood. </p>
<p>Ways to volunteer: I've benefited immensely from being a tutor at a youth shelter. Scheduling has been extremely flexible.</p>
<p>This is a fascinating thread. To all those who didn't receive a mother's tender, loving care--my sympathy. This makes me appreciate my own mother more and also helps me to understand my maternal grandmother more because she definitely had mental issues that affected my mom, an only child. My grandma was mean and critical and unpredictable to my mother, and my mom had to rise above that and become a better mother herself.</p>
<p>My mother used to yell at us a lot, ranting and raving about how we didn't help her enough. She was also very controlling and emotionally manipulative. Although she took good care of us and was supportive and did most things well for the family, she was very outwardly focused on her friends and her work. Because of her controlling behavior, none of her three daughters feels close to her now. You also have to watch your back because she will talk about you to the other sisters and try to play us off against each other. My own D can't stand her grandma--sees right through her--and has as little to do with her as possible. It's sad because my mother doesn't have a clue why my D doesn't have much of a relationship with her or why my sisters and I keep our distance from her.</p>
<p>There's also a book called "Children of the Self-Absorbed," which has helped me.</p>
<p>SBMom, I love my kids too much. They like eachother better than they like either of their parents:). I think that goes along with your theory?</p>
<p>One of the things that I have observed with my mother- is that it is important to her that I & my siblings are friends.</p>
<p>( we aren't- in fact I rarely see either of them- although we live in same area- our interests & values are very different)</p>
<p>I am not sure why that is, especially considering as far as I can tell, she didn't do anything to encourage us to even get along with each other while we were growing up.</p>
<p>( I was the oldest- but as I was "the girl", my brother- who was the 2nd born, was by far the favored child)</p>
<p>As my kids have little extended family- ( only one cousin on H side of family- whom we never see or hear from), I do try and encourage them to stay close- although it is much more difficult now that D#1 is living in the next state & D#2, keeps her distance, because to let her guard down, would hurt to acknowledge how much she misses her sister.</p>
<p>Which is sad to me, but it motivates me to find ways for them to do things together.
( so right now I am researching horseback riding on Mt Hood, they both ride & both of their birthdays are at the end of this month- )</p>
<p>Robi -- I feel for you! I had an abusive stepmom for a couple of years after my dad's first marriage (to my mentally ill mom) ended. She was abusive physically and mentally. I ran away from home when I was 7 or 8 years old to get away from her. Fortunately, that marriage was short lived and I ended up living with my dad's parents from 8 years old on. My poor dad. He is a good guy, but very unlucky in love. He has stayed single ever since the break up of that horrific second marriage.</p>
<p>These posts are almost too painful to read, hits way to close to home.</p>
<p>This may be a good place to share your success stories as well as your struggles. Looks like an interesting book. It's sad that there will probably be a wide readership :(</p>
<p><a href="http://nevergoodenough.com/%5B/url%5D">http://nevergoodenough.com/</a></p>
<p>Oh, Robi, {{{{{{{major hugs to you}}}}}}}</p>
<p>The story of your mother was chilling and so very sad. I am just <em>SO</em> sorry that you had to undergo that treatment, particularly as an innocent child who should have been nurtured and encouraged to believe in herself and TRUST while in a mother's care. The scars are lasting, aren't they? :( Though my own mother wasn't physically abusive, she was extraordinarily emotionally abusive (and neglectful). It is a VERY difficult thing to deal with when your tormentor shows a different (and fake) face to the world, and you are disbelieved when you try to relate what happened to you. I have experienced this too, and I know how frustrating and defeating it is. </p>
<p>I am so happy that you have been able to get beyond the emotional pain and scarring of your childhood to become a loving, nurturing mother to your own children. With your children, a new legacy of love and trust will begin, and the future will be a bright and happy one for your grandchildren-to-come. My hat's off to you, Robi, for a job VERY well done!! You are truly an inspiration!</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Alu, yes, exactly. My kids are the same. Thick as thieves. Well, the little one isn't quite old enough to be fully in the club-- but they adore him and he adores them. </p>
<p>My brother's death, and my subsequent realization that my sister is the ONLY human being on the planet who will ever fully understand the weirdness in my family history, completely informed my parenting. My #1 priority was them loving one another and having close relationships in adulthood. </p>
<p>I'd frequently say stuff like, "Be nice to your brother; one day you are going to need him on your side when it's time to yank my car keys."</p>
<p>Has anyone noticed how many memoirs are by those who had parents who seemed to be less mature than their kids?</p>
<p>The</a> Glass Castle is the latest one that I have read</p>
<p>But also The</a> Liars Club</p>
<p>And This Boys Life</p>
<p>I guess you either have to become a writer or a comedian after a rough childhood.</p>
<p>The "never good enough" website's name reminded me of a favorite comment of my mother. Every time my sisters and I came home with A's - we could just never come home with anythng else - her only response was "That's adequate" delivered dripping with sarcasm. It absolutely cut us to the quick. I think I've got to stop reading this thread. See you later...</p>
<p>
While I do think a good amount of poor or dysfunctional parenting features self absorbed parents, it is important not to confuse "self absorbed" with narcissistic. In the colloquial use of the term "narcissistic," they <em>are</em> pretty similar, but pathological narcissim is a horse of a different color entirely. There are nine criteria given as traits of pathological narcissism. Of those nine, five must be met for one to be officially diagnosed (though very few are actually diagnosed because it is hallmark of a narcissist to feel that any problems are everyone ELSE'S and not his, so he would shun a psychologist). The "hallmark" trait is the complete and utter lack of empathy. Narcissists are simply UNABLE to put themselves into another person's shoes or to imagine and sympathize with how someone else feels.</p>
<p>There is a differentiation, though, between some self-absorbed people and narcissits. My FIL is EXTREMELY self-absorbed (and just plain SELFISH), but he's not a narcissist. Narcissists are MUCH more dysfunctional and damaging to others. Narcissism is a personality disorder and one that begins in early childhood. It may not become evident until a bit later, in adolescence or early adulthood, but you don't suddenly become one later in life if you have been "normal" before, though you certainly can become more self-absorbed. </p>
<p> [quote] Another problem that causes damage is extreme favoritism. I can't tell you how many friends I have whose families were destroyed by such.
OH, ABSOLUTELY. Our family was built upon favorites and scapegoats. DAMAGING beyond belief. :(</p>
<p>On a slightly humorous note, the Signals catalog carries this shirt that says, "I'm Mom's favorite." I've thought about buying one for EACH of my kids (and adopteds)!!!! ;) :D</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>In defense of bhg...she is not slapping anyone with a belt buckle. She merely pointed out her point of view, a cyber point, made from who knows where. She came back and softened it and extended warm wishes to all.</p>
<p>Cyber opinions are not belt buckles. Who knows what bhg has overcome or not overcome--it's cyberspace and she didn't say. It's nearly impossible to judge someone you don't know. Part of the business of mutual respect is that we read each other's cyber opinions without internalizing them. </p>
<p>In other words, it's possible for bhg to both hold that opinion about difficult mothers AND empathize with the plight of those who suffered terrible abuse and neglect. My in-laws suffered the most deprived childhoods you can imagine--yet they went on to cherish those parents. In fact, I didn't find out how terrible their childhoods had been until I had been married to DH for five years. That terrible history just wasn't on the table--by their choice. That's not a criticism of those who have distanced themselves from awful parents--it's just another single data point from cyber space.</p>
<p>My MIL is an absolute treasure and she influenced many of my parenting decisions---many of the indulgent ones especially. She is the epitome of unconditional love and I learned a ton by immitating her. A saint.</p>
<p>
[quote]
She is the epitome of unconditional love and I learned a ton by immitating her. A saint.
[/quote]
Sounds like both my mom and my MIL -- unfortunately, they are both gone now.</p>
<p>Also check out the book "Running with Scissors" by Burroughs.</p>
<p>My mother died four years ago. We had an up and down relationship most of my life. Our relationship was best when I lived farther away, but she was lonely...and miserable most of the time. She had a large family but spoke to no one except me. In the meantime, I kept in touch with all of the aunts uncles and cousins. When my mom died, we had already moved her nearer to us. There wasn't even anyone to invite to a funeral. We had a reception here for my friends. The sad truth was that my mom only had two friends and they were from where I grew up (they were my age...surrogate kids, I think). However, she dearly loved my children and that always came through loud and clear, even when she was being a bit testy with me. The kids have good memories of grandma except the ones where she is yelling at me. Sadly, she never saw either of her grandchildren graduate from high school. She did have a nice chat with my son about his college plans the week before she died. My goal with my own kids has always been to be a "better" mom than my mom was with me. I guess time will tell if I've succeeded.</p>