<p>@MiamiDAP, you’ve mistaken me for someone else, but no need for the seeming vitriol:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>IT WAS @wis75 who wrote “So sorry MiamiDAP that Florida public schools are not up to par.” Not me. I didn’t know where you were located but after wis75’s comments, I thought you were in FL until corrected by another poster. But with a name that starts with Miami, I suppose that you ought to have some idea why someone might think you are from Florida. But, it ain’t me, babe (no no no …).</p>
<p>Moreover, I am wondering why you think I am against private schools. I mentioned in my first post in this thread that my daughter went to a very selective private HS in Massachusetts. Both of my kids went to public and private. And, I am as elitist in my post-secondary education as they come – I went to three of HYPMS and taught at one. </p>
<p>They pressured me to attend the low tier school. I agree. Saves money, I’m debt free and get to abuse the AP credit in the quest for a 3 year engineering degree.</p>
<p>Speaking as a student - not so much my mom, but my dad pressured/pressures me to apply to top colleges, but not necessarily to get into them… neither of them went to college and only one finished high school, so I think they don’t really understand just how difficult admission for Ivies and top LACs is.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP has a fantastic idea about k-12 education only requiring a little hard work.</p>
<p>School is failing to educate. School tries to teach too much and school leaves little room for free expression and free thought and originality. It’s less and less about learning and a lot more like indoctrination.</p>
<p>I see kids that rebel against that kind of education and are very intelligent. To say they could work hard and make the grade doesn’t cut it with these kids. It’s like telling them to shut off their minds and stop thinking for themselves.</p>
<p>On the flip side, good, hardworking kids struggle in part because they respond differently to these challenges. My wife teaches kids that have two parents in jail and live with their Grandmom, she teaches homeless kids, she teaches kids who are kept so busy that they don’t start homework until 9pm. She teaches 5th graders.</p>
<p>There are no average kids. Maybe in a school in a certain neighborhood where the kids are all white from rich families or Hispanic from a poor immigrant community, etc. but even looking a single school district is anecdotal. What you observe can not be generalized to all students.</p>
<p>The educational system is broken. Not all high school grads have the same quality of education. And expecting kids across the country to receive one piece of advice as the solution to their academic performance is off-base.</p>
<p>I do believe that hard work in our society is the key to success but it’s working hard at what you are good at it in a society that is free that yields the result. Hard work in a sweatshop won’t get you ahead. Hard work in a communist country won’t get you ahead. Hard work as a woman in Saudi Arabia won’t get you ahead. Hard work in a highly regulated industry in America won’t get you ahead unless your hard work results in finding ways to profit despite burdensome regulations.</p>
<p>"School is failing to educate. School tries to teach too much "
-Actually AMERICAN k -12 is teaching way TOO LITTLE, not too much, filing classes with boring, unchallenging, busy work. No wonder that kids a seeking challenges on their own, many get them into trouble.
Many schools abroad teach MUCH MUCH more and much much deeper in just 10 years vs, 13 in Amercan schools.
All foreign exchange students are palced into higher classes while visiting here despite of poor English. Does it tells anything to anybody? How about many immigrants communities organizign their own schools here and NOT only for maintaining the native language profficiency, but hugely supplementing the lack of education in math and sciences in American k - 12.<br>
Yes, School is failing to educate because School teaches way too little, filling classes with busy work and killing any type of critical thinking, seems to be on purpose actually.</p>
<p>There is a huge range in quality of public education. that foes without say. But to try to profess, again and again and again, that everyone can excel equally with hard work, as if everyone were from the same cookie cutter mold, is just preposterous. Repeating it ad nauseum does not make it so.</p>
<p>Miami, my daughter did 4 hours of homework in h.s. each night. Every night. She’d been sitting and doing her homework every night since K. She tried very hard. We NEVER missed school except for 4 days in 5th grade for a trip to China. She doesn’t like English but still does all the required work. Sometimes she gets B’s.</p>
<p>Her sister puts in minimal effort and sometimes she gets A’s. She can barely add and subtract, yet gets through life (and school). She is an extremely happy kid, while her sister is an extremely stressed kid, often worried about grades and failing and being second in life.</p>
<p>Hey- Parents! Over Here!! I was interested in this thread until a fight broke out, so can we get back to the topic on hand. As a high school-er, the curriculum is CHALLENGING, it’s the point of school, not this thread. Please answer the question and stop arguing, because as a student myself, I DON’T CARE ABOUT ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHAT I AM LEARNING, I chose to sacrifice time for homework, and I chose to get sloppy sometimes, unfortunately, the education system can’t please everyone, but IMO, my public school is doing as good as they can. </p>
<p>NOW, may I ask if we can just answer the question at hand? Thank you.</p>
<p>To get back to the point-some kids are pressured and some aren’t. Pressure doesn’t really work though. You have to have parents who put on the pressure and kids who try to achieve it. I know lots of kids that don’t live up to their parents expectations in one area or another including really good kids who do their own thing in some area.</p>
<p>Now may I digress a moment because it’s important. Many schools are failing kids. Society will not withstand this failure for very long.</p>
<p>Ultimately it is their decision, but I have tried to get them to understand the importance of preparation since middle school. Most kids want to go to a top college, but they have no idea how to get in. Parents need to support, but not pressure them. </p>
<p>My oldest son ended up at MIT. It was definitely his doing. I did <em>not</em> want him applying, and certainly didn’t want him going 3000 miles away. It got on his list in October of senior year and he applied towards the end of December. He knew nothing about rankings, but after being flown there for a special program (that I heard about here on CC) and spending three days there, he decided to apply. He didn’t make his decision to attend until a few days before the deadline. He was also accepted to Princeton, Penn, and some other top STEM schools, but he was deciding between MIT and Mudd. Originally, he hadn’t thought he wanted a STEM school, but that’s exactly what he wanted.</p>
<p>It’s been an amazing school for him, a great fit, and we realize he picked well. But no, my children do not know anything about rankings (Well, my oldest son now knows since this is his third year at MIT, but he didn’t know much when he was applying). <em>I</em> know about this stuff since I’m a homeschool mom/counselor and I have just learned about all of this in the last four years, mostly here, but I don’t talk about that with them. Since they’re not in a high pressured high school, and in fact are in a neighborhood with very low performing/achieving kids, they are an anomaly around here.</p>
<p>Interesting story, sbjdorlo. We almost didn’t let DS apply to MIT because we’d be full-pay. I was a bit relieved when he was rejected. It seemed there would be peer pressure (from his friends and ours) to attend. But really for him Mudd and Olin (where is now a senior) were a better fit. </p>
<p>So much depends on the particular student. IMO, the parent role is NOT to pressure a student but to be a good listener and clearly communicate family financial factors. </p>
<p>If there is one thing I have drilled into D1’s head time and again: you don’t know what any school will actually cost until you see the package from their FA office. You have to apply widely and then see what choices they actually return you.</p>
<p>If your son applied to Princeton, MIT, Mudd and (univ ?) Penn, then he knew something about rankings or what he perceived as a good academic fit for him. Maybe he also applied to local Big University or less selective colleges?
Since it has turned out to be such a good fit, he either got lucky or did some research on his own (as well as having what it takes to do well at MIT).</p>
<p>Each of our kids has needed different attitudes and sets of expectations from us, as parents. If I can generalize, we asked our kids to do the best they could in HS so that their choices of colleges would be greater when it came time to apply. Within the context of their interests and the college environment that they wanted for themselves, we encouraged them to apply to whichever schools appealed to them. Kids 1,2 & 3 have all made different choices regarding applications, locations, size, course of study and acceptances. Kid #3 has felt societal expectations to go for selective schools the most. Encouraging kids to do their best and expecting that they can do well, does set up some pressure about outcomes. Remember the comment about ‘the bigotry of low expectations.’ Doing well, academically or any way, sets up the reverse scenario.</p>
<p>^^^Numbersfan: If I understand your comment, you seem to suggest that if parents have high expectations, the kids will live up to them. My response to that is that it depends on the kid. You should be thankful that all 3 of yours lived up to your expectations. Many parents on these forums and elsewhere have set high (but reasonable) expectations and their kids chose not to meet those (even though the expectations were in line with ability). </p>
<p>Personality of the kid and their internal motivation plays as big a role in success as parental expectations. Peer expectations can also help, hurt or have no effect at all. </p>
<p>And FCCdad, unless you are in a very unique situation, most of the Net Price Calculators will give you a decent idea of what you could expect in terms of Financial aid (not merit money, but need-based). Certainly, there may be some surprises, but make sure your son has a financial safety along with an academic one. </p>
<p>I generalized too much, sorry. Each kid was different, with different levels of expectation. We asked them to do well at their level, not at sibling level, or best kid in the world level, their level. We are fortunate that none of them had learning disabilities, but each one has had their own challenges and strengths. I agree about personality which is why I mentioned one kid has been more susceptible to ‘selective school’ pressure, the other 2 didn’t feel societal pressure to ‘reach’. Internal motivation is a different issue - Kids 1 & 2 were more motivated by quality of life issues, kid 3#, more motivated by achievement.</p>
<p>D1 is my daughter. I have suggested she look at the NPCs to get estimates. I do not have access to her mother’s and stepfather’s financial information, nor will they ever have access to mine.</p>
so that was cool. </p>