<p>MiamiDAP is, as usual, incorrect, “ginius” as she may be! Agree that hard work is important, but that is only part of the equation. I suspect her kids, who attended an extremely small private school, did not see the level of competition that is present in other high schools. I know I had school friends in high school, college AND law school who worked very hard- much harder than I did in some instances- but never seemed to do as well as I did. I would not describe myself as a “ginius”, but there are many other factors that come into play such as the ability to read and process quickly, knack for test-taking, writing ability and general judgment. </p>
<p>I have pushed for D1 to apply to a full range of schools, both in “prestige” and price. On her own, she was accumulating a lot of expensive schools and admission safeties. She has been quite timid about reaches IMO, severely underestimating her “match” range. We’ll see next spring what her actual open options are.</p>
<p>I did a lot of the college research for DS. He was busy with intense IB classes (for the sake of learning more than impressing colleges… thought he did work hard to keep good grades) AND a variety of terrific ECs (for the fun of it, not to pad the resume). In a nutshell, he was making the most of some terrific opportunities at his hs. </p>
<p>I was initially looking to leverage his NMF for scholarship… but through CC I came to realize the value of finding a “good fit”. Rankings were used as a datapoints in the search, but we were never hung up on prestige / Ivy. </p>
<p>My daughter auditioned at several schools. For some reason Fordham took a shine to her. She applied as an acting major. I thought she belonged in the directing program. I never said anything. Sure enough, the head of the directing program saw her potential and brilliantly finessed her into switching her major in the second year. She had an exceptional experience at Fordham. I am an immigrant and had no idea about Fordham. Suffice it to say, this school surpassed our expectations in every way. Since she’s graduated ( and here’s the test) she’s had several assignments sent her way by the school. She recently was hired for a job sight unseen because Fordham is on her resume. Her employer loves her. Fordham has a coherent set of values that employers understand. I cannot rate this school highly enough. So, to answer your questions about top schools. Fordham was way out of my league, but worth every cent.
Not many schools measure up. </p>
<p>@2T6E4 in post #12, yes there are other options besides students or parents being driven towards specific schools and just the natural course of events. I am trying to use tools (such as Bolles’ “What Color is your Parachute job-hunter’s workbook”) to help my student to illuminate her drive. It is easy to get overwhelmed by the currents of peer judgment and values, or to not listen to one’s inner voice because of the pace of High School, and the parent can provide that balance. I then try to seek out specific special programs or people or other resources at the schools to have her research more fully (an example would be Princeton’s 5-year-old ‘Bridge Year’ program). Wherever she goes should be a fit for her, not just a “glamour brand”. My college experience was that of a crucible that required the intensity of the place and the people- there is no calculus that says I would have had an equivalent public education. If she cannot find that, then she should look at Community College/Flagship with some MOOC supplementation. That is the path my son is taking, and the speaker at CC graduation is matriculating to MIT in Math, my son is going to one of the state flagships. I want her to seek out a life-changing experience, or else learn a trade at lowest cost. My role is to help find the background information to inform her decision process- both about listening to her own heart and about finding a life-changing setting to catapult her on her way. I hope to help provide the tools to help her make a better decision and leave the decision-making up to her. All these paths are great, but our job is to provide tools, support, insight, and wisdom- not opinions on brand names or life paths.</p>
<p>Our kids knew early on that with our income, they could either A) attend our local CC or state university as a commuter, or B) win admission to a school with extremely generous FA. Both are fine options and we would be happy either way. DD '14 was admitted to an Ivy with all but $3000/yr paid, which she is covering with summer work and work study…wonderful! DS '15 is applying to a couple of Ivies, MIT, and a few state schools that cover full need, and we’ll see what happens there. DS '17 would not be happy at the tippy top schools, though, so I expect he’ll go the commuter route, at least to start. And that will be perfectly fine 
. Their accomplishments are their own.</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP - I have two kids that are so vastly different that they defy your conjecture that we are all basically the same.</p>
<p>We are all human with basically the same anatomy but that is where the similarities end and differences begin.</p>
<p>Nobody is saying that we are the same people. I was just saying that those who work hard will achieve, (they maybe completely different people, I meant the same in regard to academic ability, but not exactly even there, the classes that are hard for some are the easy for the others who have their own “hard set”). However, in american k -12, there is NOTHING at all that require some exceptional hard work, the reasonable effort will bring results, and, yes, if one needs to work harder in History class, another oner might put more effort into math. That does not mean that they are not able to acheive, if this is a goal. Well, the goal may be different, not everybody wants to achieve academically. then their efforts maybe put in beating that level of the computer game. Well, you mihgt do absolutely nothing at all and flank everything or simply drop out. All I am saying is with the goal of acdemic exelence, everybody is capapble of achieving it in american k -12. </p>
<p>Off topic…but I do not agree, Miami. Many very hard working individuals…very hard working, will not achieve academic excellence regardless of how hard they work or how much homework they do. Some have disabilities and other barriers that prevent their ability to achieve as you say ALL students can.</p>
<p>Did you ever hear of the bell curve? </p>
<p>The idea that anyone can excel if the only want it enough and try hard enough is very pernicious. It permeates our culture and is demonstrably false, but almost impossible to eradicate.</p>
<p>No, not everyone can excel. Not even at something as generic as K12 education, no matter how much they try.</p>
<p>Sports are a good example. Plenty of kids loved playing baseball as kids, but 99% of them, no matter how much they practice and work out, will never be able to run fast enough, throw hard enough, see the pitch trajectory clearly and early enough, or control their swing accurately enough, to have any chance of being selected for a pro career (much less excelling as a pro).</p>
<p>Music is another. You may love playing piano, but 99% will never be good enough to succeed, much less excel, as concert pianists, no matter how much they love it, no matter how many hours they spend practicing, composing, arranging, studying.</p>
<p>There is a bell curve of what I’ll call natural foundation/aptitude, rather than natural ability. There is a related but separate such curve for each subject; someone with great foundation in math might not be equally well founded in composition. Apply on top of that a second bell curve of motivation/interest, in each subject. A student who is at the high end of the curve in both foundation/aptitude and motivation/interest will excel in the subject, and no student who is midrange in foundation/aptitude or midrange in motivation/interest will be able to match him.</p>
<p>In HS, the curve is not very pronounced - there are only a few hundred students per year, typically. Those who are at the high end of the curve for both aptitude and motivation for most subjects will be in the running for valedictorian. Those who are not, will not be. No amount of effort or practice or work will change that.</p>
<p>Going to college, the trick is to identify what subject your aptitude and motivation curves are highest in, and major in that subject.</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP: I’m not clear on what you mean by “reasonable effort will bring results.” Do you mean that every kid who just shows up and does the homework can achieve passing grades? That might not be much of a stretch, although there are kids with learning disabilities for whom that might not be true, but I’ll grant you that the average kid who does what is expected can probably pass. However, you’ve posted in other places that you believe kids who simply work hard and do all the homework will get As, and that indicates a limited knowledge of the range of American high schools.</p>
<p>Agree, that sports, music and even HS education in most countries abroad require certain talents. I am saying that AMERICAN k -12 does not require ANY at all being brought down to extrememly low levels. There are people who will never speak and they could not taught to read and wirite. I am not talking about certain “challenged” individuals, I am talking about regular ordinary, average able kid. There is no reason under the sun that with the resoanble effort of doing the homework on time and well, this kid will not exceed. Why parents do not understand something that my 13 y o GrandS summed up ever so nicely: “Just doing my homework, grandma”, he is not by far the only one who is accomlishing the goal the easiest way possible, just doing every day work.</p>
<p>Is there a broken record emoticon? :)</p>
<p>Also, I’m not a huge fan of auto-correction (hint: that red underlining!), but is it only available to some and not all posters? My kid may not have always worked hard enough on his homework, but he sure as heck knew how to proofread what he wrote before submitting it!</p>
<p>One more time: To generalize about ALL “AMERICAN k -12” makes about as much sense as generalizing about “all” parents in the US! Anecdotal “evidence” is hardly proof of anything besides your own personal experience.</p>
<p>“I do feel pressured by myself. Not by others. My parents don’t care, as long as I’m happy. I know I won’t get in and I chose this username because I had that “I want candy” song in my head at the time. I chose to create this thread because I wanted to know about how the lives of kids who were admitted to elite schools were. I was curiosity that if my life were like theirs, if I would have a better chance of being different from what I am now. I had no guidance at all and I started thinking about colleges at a very late stage. I’m at a loss because I feel like I’m cramming everything to try to make up for my wasted time”</p>
<p>OP, I think you have more existential issues than college choice to deal with. You seem to be starting from the top down rather than the bottom up. Somehow, you got in in your head that it’s “Stanford or bust” without going through the necessary introspection and identity-building. Your other comments suggest you worry overmuch about how others perceive you, about how you don’t think you fit into a certain boilerplate model of a well-adjusted youth or college applicant. Some of this is the fault of your peers/ schools/ community/ culture, no doubt. But the best thing you can do is get off the echo-chamber of CC with its same old handful of posters co-opting discussions (often self-serving and rife with humble-bragging; I won’t exclude myself from this description!) and find what makes YOU tick. </p>
<p>I think your question about the extent of parental involvement or non-involvement in the college process is a ruse. You want support and positive feedback at a very uncertain time. Any college these days wants the genuine person underneath the “package”, warts and all. Be glad that there is no mold you have to fit to get into a great college. And don’t worry that you started the process too late. Better this than to have fixated on it too early, as many do. You’ve obviously lived a genuine life—the pain of being ostracized is valid, worthy of expression, and surmountable. Don’t let the college application experience add to the insecurities you already bear. Think of it as a way to “be yourself”.</p>
<p>Cheers! </p>
<p>
This is complete nonsense, and you really should stop repeating it. Nobody but you believes it is true–because it isn’t.</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP: At our son’s high school, extremely hard-working intelligent kids, who were tested and pre-screened to attend this school, leave every year because they have trouble with the academics. It sounds to me like you are surrounded by extremely grade-inflated schools that, perhaps, put a premium on turning in homework or allow test corrections or makeups or do-overs or other academic Mulligans that provide every kid with a way to get (perhaps not truly “earn”) As. There are schools in America where that is not the case, where no one in a class might earn an A because no one made the bar for that exam or paper or even entire course. Your lack of exposure to all American schools disqualifies you from making the statements you do.</p>
<p>
This.</p>
<p>And while we are asking to curtail the same repetitive stories, how about simply numbering your posts about your dau, her small private HS where she was val of a small graduating class and chose a full ride at Miami. Just call it “post # 1” and refer to it. Saves bandwidth.</p>
<p>Yep, I sure did. Penn and Lehigh. No regrets at all about it.</p>
<p>My parents were never like, “You must get into a top school or we won’t love you!” etc. However, they know i do very well and expect that to reflect to the college of my choice, they obviously wouldn’t want me to go to a community college. It was my idea to try and get into and ivy league and that’s hopefully what I’ll do 
</p>
<p>My oldest is still in high school, but: She has wanted to apply to the ivy I went to for grad school for years, quite without pressure from me—if anything, I’ve discouraged her from it a bit. I’ve also encouraged her to look at schools that have good outcomes even though they’re not the sort of schools that show up on the more, um, hypercompetitive threads on these fora—I’m in higher education myself, so I’m very aware that the networking possibilities and educational quality are quite excellent in the top tier, but they’re not as different from the second (and third) tier as a lot of people like to think.</p>