<p>I have a close friend who is just starting his round of college applications. He is incredibly bright and has always been at the top of his class. His GPA is pretty much as high as can be, especially his weighted (he takes all AP and Honors). He has a large vareity of extracurriculur activites and honors througout high school. </p>
<p>His parents have been pushing him to try and attend Harvard, Yale or Princeton, as well as a few other Ivy schools. They have been grooming him for this since he was about 13 or so. The few (and I mean very few) times that he doesn't live up to the monumental expectations his parents have for him, such as the few times he gets a A minus on something, he is told that he will never make it to H, Y or P unless he shapes up. However, I have recently been speaking to him and he tells me that he doesn't want to go to H, Y or P but his parents are pressuring him to apply to all and attend one. </p>
<p>He does his own research for schools and has found many that fit his wants, needs, and interests, but aren't necessarily Ivy League schools. His parents simply blow off these ideas as nonsense. They say that he is made for the Ivy League and he will attend one. He tells me that he doesn't want to go to a school just for the prestige factor, he wants to go to college to learn and grow in the environment that best fits him and will best suit him for the future. I have given him numerous ways to convey this to his parents, but they simply won't listen.</p>
<p>So I would like to know what advice the rational parents of CC would offer to my friend. I think it is so wrong when parents pressure their children to attend certain schools simply for the prestige factor. Who knows if the kid even likes the school or feels comfortable there? There may be sooo many other schools that will better suit the child, with the sole sacrifice being some prestige. How should he approach his parents to best convey his opinion?</p>
<p>Devilsrule, in my experience many kids are reluctant to state opinions which they know are contrary to their parents' openly and forthrightly. My guess would be that your friend, who has been pleasing his parents all his life, has not come out and said: "Mom, Dad, I don't want to go to Harvard, Yale or Princeton. I want to go to Notre Dame (or wherever.)" If he can summon up the nerve to address the issue straight up and not be dissuaded by his parents' initial response, he might find things easier from there on out.</p>
<p>Yes, he certainly is very cautious of upsetting his parents by offering a contrasting opinion. I'm sure he has been circumventing the situation instead of driving the point home as he should.</p>
<p>Same thing happened to a friend of mine (who happens to be a CCer too). He was told he was attending Penn. No questions asked. He was told he had to apply Early Decision. He wanted to go to a very good top 35 school, but his parents refused. Needless to say, he didnt get into Penn and ended up at one of our state schools (which is still a solid top 60, but still...). Parents are absolutely awful sometimes...</p>
<p>haha its the exact opposite with me. My parents don't want me to apply to priceton or harvard because they think its too prestigious/snobby/whatever and I won't have a good college experience.</p>
<p>Well, as a first step, since NO ONE is guaranteed a spot at HYP, your friend could tell his parents that he will ALSO be applying to ... ... ..., just in case he is not accepted at HYP. They WANT him to go to college, right? It's not HYP or nothing? So by applying to other colleges that HE likes, he will be covering his bases and providing an opening to discussions about colleges other than HYP down the line.</p>
<p>Parents can indeed be awful in the name of doing what's best for their child.</p>
<p>My advice would be to just apply to HYP but also apply to the schools he is most interested in. He can tell his parents that getting into HYP is a crapshoot and he wants to ensure that he does get in somewhere. Anyway, he needs to have a list of reaches (and HYP are super-reaches), matches and safeties.</p>
<p>He can also tell his parents he is not in a position to accept or reject a school at this stage, All he can do is apply. He should also read the story of Andison who was not accepted at the schools to which he had applied, despite an excellent school record, and had to take a gap year. Search the CC archives for his story. He is now a happy student at MIT (which was not on his original list).</p>
<p>He should consider telling them that he'll shoot for Ivy when he enters grad school, and in the meantime he wants a diverse educational experience overall.</p>
<p>I simply don't understand parents who act like this--and are so sure they are right. I can't improve on the advice you've gotten from menloparkmom and marite. If your friend is as great as he sounds, he will probably have some options open that he can fund on his own, if his parents maintain this wrong-minded attitude and will only fund HYP--he might get in after all.</p>
<p>Some people, especially parents of only children, do tend to put all their own desires on the shoulders of their kids. My kids have a friend whose parents were HYP Only folks. Of course, the S sabotaged his application by deliberately misspelling a word or two in his essays. The GC at his school pointed it out to him, but the kid said "send it anyway." And of course, Harvard and Yale both rejected him, despite his 2400 SATs, 4.4 GPA, cured cancer, etc.</p>
<p>His parents freaked out when he was rejected - not knowing what he had done with the spelling. When he finally told them, they were flabbergasted. He spent a semester flipping burgers at our local eatery until his parents calmed down. He's now applied Carleton, Grinnell, and Grove City College, which is his #1 school. Parents are still steaming, and father has said he'll not give son a dime.</p>
<p>1) Are Mom and Dad footing the bill? If so, they do have some input, although most parents will eventually see reason. Apply, keep them happy, go on with your life</p>
<p>2) Compromise may be possible, the Ivies are quite diverse, he may find one that he actually likes, and the Ivy brand will satisfy Mom and Dad</p>
<p>3) Even if he hung the moon and cured cancer, at best he has a one in three shot, so this may be a tempest in a teapot.</p>
<p>4) HYP are 3 wonderful schools - if M&D are willing to pay, and he gets in, isn't a little spoiled to worry about perfect for his needs and wants? How about getting a world class education, then go do what you want?? After all, once he gets there he can take whatever classes he wants to, they don't see his grades or sign his forms or anything - if they threaten to pull the bucks out from under him, he can probably get merit money at a fine institution.</p>
<p>As a parent of two children who could have gone to more "elite" schools than they did, I think what his folks are doing is cruel. I can tell you multiple stories of friends and relatives whose parents made them go to this or that school, made them major in this or that... and how crummy their lives have turned out. When my sons told me that they wanted to go to our flagship, I'll admit I was disappointed for a while. But then I realized that it wasn't about ME, it was about them, and they would get just as good an education at the flagship, if they embraced the opportunities available. Conversely, if they had been unhappy at some other school, they would have suffered through it, but probably not done nearly as well.</p>
<p>My son really didn't want to go to a place with exclusive clubs or secret societies. The student we know at Harvard is wrestling with these issues. She doesn't want to join something exclusive but feels uncomfortable saying no. Yes, HYP are wonderful schools, but it's NOT spoiled to say that some of their practices go against the grain of everything a student may believe in or feel comfortable with.</p>
<p>^^ My son was exactly the same. He refused to even consider applying to HYP simply because they had such a reputation for exclusive clubs and elite , rich students [ regardless of whether it was true or not].</p>
<p>The eating clubs at Princeton are a big part of the school's life, but the final clubs at Harvard and secret societies at Yale involve relatively few students. At Yale, society members are tapped for their senior year only, and most students don't give two hoots about them.</p>
<p>Oh that misspelling story cracks me up- even I'd do it. I mean seriously, thats the kind of pressure it takes to actually want to screw up applications on purpose.</p>
<p>Tell him to apply to those schools- his parents are paying for the fees right? If not, then he should point out that he's not going to waste his own money on schools he doesn't care about. That's how I look at it- if you want me to go to a school that I don't want to put my money in, then I'll be on the look out for the application and tutition checks from you.</p>
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4) HYP are 3 wonderful schools - if M&D are willing to pay, and he gets in, isn't a little spoiled to worry about perfect for his needs and wants? How about getting a world class education, then go do what you want?? After all, once he gets there he can take whatever classes he wants to, they don't see his grades or sign his forms or anything - if they threaten to pull the bucks out from under him, he can probably get merit money at a fine institution.
<p>Maybe he could get his parents to read the opening of Loren Pope's "Colleges That Change Lives." It's biased, contains sweeping and misleading generalizations, and misrepresents the Ivy experience in many ways. But if you're looking for Ivy-bashing, it does a commendable job ;) </p>
<p>I'm being almost totally, but not entirely facetious; talking about some of the issues raised in a book like "CTCL" might actually help your friend articulate some of his concerns to his parents if the problem is finding a way to open an avenue of communication.</p>
<p>My advice would be for your friend to humor his parents to a certain extent. Tour the Ivies, maybe he'll like some of them better than he expects. Make sure his parents realize what the odds are and apply to the colleges he likes as well. If he truly hates all the Ivies after he's visited, I think he should try hard to dissuade his parents from their dreams, but in desperation I wouldn't be averse to a little sabotage.</p>