<p>This is such a ridiculous claim. Not every CC student goes through crazily hard classes. I know the kinds of classes you’re talking of, and some CC students do them, including some very talented math students who transfer here. That doesn’t mean everyone from CC underwent a rigorous program. CC students and frosh are both very likely to be subpar, because they just didn’t have the right training. It is the university’s duty, which is probably not being done well, to work against this.</p>
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<p>And then there’s this. I don’t even see why it’s so hard for people to agree that students should be allowed to have equal choices. I for one am skeptical as to how much of a problem all this really is, but I certainly don’t see a valid reason to argue against that freedom.</p>
<p>Like I said, I have no problem with transfer students per se. Frankly, I think the real problem is with the weeders. like I said, I think the weeders should be abolished, perhaps accompanied with a tighter admissions scheme. You never hear of HYPS students being weeded, and even MIT students are only mildly so. (MIT, despite its harshness, still manages to graduate an impressive ~95% of its students in 6 years). </p>
<p>I believe in second chances. That’s why I welcome the transfer students - as long as they’re not receiving special treatment. If the weeders are not to be abolished, then everybody should be forced to take the weeders. Otherwise, the freshman-admits should be allowed the same opportunity to skip weeders that the transfers students are allowed. What’s fair is fair.</p>
<p>Again, this has nothing to do with transfers per se, but has to do with the fair application of weeders. I pose the question: why should the freshman-admits be forced to take weeders that the transfer admits do not have to take?</p>
<p>Doesn’t it depend on your major? Some people should know they are gonna run into weeders if they choose a major like engineering or computer science. Other majors take you on a path that will not take you to one stinkin weeder class. The only transfers that are avoiding weeder classes are the same kinda people at Berkeley that are avoiding weeder classes. The people who don’t wanna do all that math and such.</p>
<p>I don’t think its practical to force transfer students to take weeder courses. Part of the reason weeder courses are, well, weeders is that there are already too many students in those classes to start with (especially with the pre-med track courses). Everyone would probably also not be too happy with the idea that transfer students would have to re-take courses covering material that they had already learned as well. Plus, if transfer students had to take weeder courses, they would most likely have to extend their enrollment time at Berkeley, which goes against one of the school’s goals.</p>
<p>I don’t think that it’s likely that any, or at least the overwhelming majority of transfer students can come into Berkeley accustomed to the difficulty offered by the university. After all, I don’t know of any community colleges that offer the same academic rigor as Berkeley or any other relatively high ranked university because they do not expect most of their students to attend such prestigious schools.</p>
<p>I agree that we should try to make sure that transfer students are held up to the same standard. I also agree that we should do our best to offer transfer students the opportunity to attend Berkeley as well, as I’m well aware that there are indeed very talented and gifted transfer students out there. Perhaps what Berkeley could do is offer comprehension or “knowledge” tests that ensure that transfer students who want to apply to Berkeley are roughly on the same standard as the freshman admits. We could also try what sakky suggested and simply eliminate the weeder courses, or at least compensate them for their increased difficulty (i.e. a more generous curve).</p>
<p>That’s precisely what I’m talking about. Your first chance to enter Berkeley is by performing well in high school. Yet many people simply did not perform well in high school - some through no fault of their own. I have no problem giving those people a second chance. In fact, I welcome it. </p>
<p>But what I do have a problem with is giving those people a second chance accompanied with special privileges. Like I said, if you want to transfer to Berkeley, please do so, as long as you are willing to subject yourself to the same rules that the other Berkeley students are subjected to.</p>
<p>^ You have repeated the same thing over ten times no matter what people say. Sounds like you can’t come up with reasonable counterarguments to people’s replies.</p>
<p>Actually freshman admits have way more special privileges than transfer admits. Most freshman have come from a more affluent families where there were spoiled rotten, while transfers usually had to work full time in order to pay for their college while taking over 15 semester units. Second, freshman have access to more educational resources and better professors, so they need more challenging courses in order to make things equal, while transfers never had access to these resources. I mean whats fair is fair.</p>
<p>not irked…just disappointed that they would accept someone who clearly couldn’t succeed at **even ** the most remedial task of doing well in community college (and in such a cake major).</p>
<p>and Berkeley isn’t precious to me. It’s just a place that has double standards for accepting the best of the best freshmen and graduate students…and the most mediocre transfers.:D</p>
<p>Actually, the replies have never knocked down any of my counterarguments. Not even once. </p>
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<p>No - again, what’s fair is fair. Transfer students are coming to Berkeley. Hence, they should play by the same rules that the other Berkeley students are forced to adhere to. </p>
<p>I agree that freshman-admits probably are more affluent than transfer students. But so what? That doesn’t mean that transfer students should be compensated with being able to skip weeders. This is not a game here: just because you’re poor doesn’t mean that you now have the right to waive weeders that richer people are now forced to undergo. What it should mean (perhaps) is that poorer students, regardless of admission category, should be provided better financial aid. </p>
<p>Otherwise - why not take the issue one step further? Some freshman-admits come from very poor backgrounds. Yet they were still nevertheless able to be admitted to Berkeley right out of high school. Perhaps they should be allowed to skip the weeders also. Some transfer students are indeed rich - perhaps we should force them to take the weeders? Clearly, this is an unworkable strategy. </p>
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<p>If anything, this is an even stronger argument for transfer students to have to take the weeders. You said it yourself - the freshman admits had access to better professors and better resources. Hence, they should be well prepared for the upper division coursework. By your own logic, transfer students lacked such access and therefore are probably less prepared, and therefore should take the weeders.</p>
<p>Let me put it to you this way. By being forced to take the weeders, the transfer students would be exposed to the same supposedly better professors and better resources that the freshman-admits are forced to be exposed to via those weeders. So shouldn’t the transfers welcome having to take the weeders? After all, why would the transfers want to deprive themselves of the benefit of those resources. That is - unless you are conceding that the weeders are not actually a resource. </p>
<p>Again, I’m happy to provide second chances to transfer students - but not special treatment. If they want special treatment, they are free to transfer to some other school that will provide it to them. But as long as freshman-admits are forced to undergo weeders, then so should the transfers. What’s fair is fair. Just because you may be poor doesn’t mean that you automatically deserve to skip classes.</p>
<p>Transfer students to CAL have a long tradition of being sub-par. Just look at me:</p>
<p>-transferred from Wesleyan to CAL because the physics ****ed at Wesleyan relative to that of Cal
-graduated Phi Beta Kappa/Summa Cum Laude in two distinct disciplines–World Lit and Physics
-Harvard Medical School
-Harvard M.A. in English
-Hopkins residency/fellowship
-Fullbright Scholar
-Stegner Writing Fellowship (Stanford University)</p>
<p>Barely squeaked by at CAL, but G-d knows I made it, limping, mind you, but I made it.</p>
<p>And it’s untrue that CC transfers are inferior performers/students. They tend to graduate with higher GPAs than those who started 4-year universities as freshmen. This, I read, a lifetime ago, in the NY Times Education section–you are free to google it, if such things are kept in an archive.</p>
<p>At Cal, transfer students (from CCs) do not graduate with a higher GPA. For the class that was admitted in 2003, the freshmen graduated with a 3.36 GPA and the transfers graduated with a 3.30 GPA (source: Statfinder). </p>
<p>Even if the transfers tended to graduate with a higher GPA than freshman admits, that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are smarter or more intelligent. In fact, it may mean that they are, as sakky as mentioned before, skipping weeder courses and therefore having an “easier ride.”</p>
<p>Again, as I have said before, there are indeed talented and gifted transfer students, just as there are talented and gifted freshmen admits. Exceptional students aside though, the truth of matter is that the average transfer student is probably less qualified to be at Cal than the average freshman. </p>
<p>It’s worth noting though, SWHarborfan, that the school you transferred from is considerably more academically rigorous than the average CC in California as well :)</p>
<p>And also, I don’t see the point of this thread either, but it’s still an entertaining discussion.</p>
<p>you don’t know why my GPA is the way it is and you don’t know anything about me. or what i am capable of.</p>
<p>i will tell you that my GPA is an upward trend in over ____ units and i had a completely different major. i have work experience, life experience and most importantly the drive to succeed and persevere. </p>
<p>i have a lot to offer Berkeley and their opinion of my GPA, my academic history and transfer status is the only one that matters. </p>
<p>class of 2012, i will see you at graduation.
i hope to see your disappointed face 123456789bc, i thrive off haters.</p>
<p>Why does this thread continue to exist? Mind you, I’ve read only sparsely but from what I can see both sides(not particular people, but the stances being taken) seem to be repeating the same arguments about weeders, how hard weeders are, how transfers should take weeders, how that idea is unfair, how transfer students have other qualities, how does qualities shouldn’t be relevant etc. This is clearly going nowhere except continue an argument over an issue that probably isn’t relevant. </p>
<p>I am a transfer student btw and I felt pretty uneasy transferring into Berkeley because of its academic reputation. I’ve taken mostly upper division courses but that’s a product of my graduating schedule, the one lower division class I took (PS3) wasn’t particularly difficult but I don’t know whether it’s seen as a weeder class or not. This thread just makes me sad (lol) about how some people see others.</p>
<p>Also I recognize that my slight outrage about the continual existence of this thread is countered by my comment which bumps it up but …uh…no comment.</p>