<p>wow…these stories are horrible…cheating is not very widespread at my school…and i thought “cheating” was looking over casually and reaffirming your answer to a MC question during a test, or seeing where everybody is in order to assess how fast you should go, etc. I would never do something as drastic as passing around an eraser or taking out inserts before time…not sure if it’s because I would feel very bad about it afterwards, but because getting caught = death. But honestly, AP exam curves are so lenient that who would need to cheat anyways?</p>
<p>But i did thikn up an elaborate plan to get answers for this one test–it was absolutely foolproof, and I made sure of it, but of course the “plan” was just for fun and I didn’t actually carry through…if I did I would definitely have felt very bad!</p>
<p>CTTC, I agree there’s nothing wrong with studying exams from previous years. The behavior I was citing involved bringing another student’s work to class, copying it verbatim and presenting it as your own work. Of course, there are plenty of other opportunities for people to cheat. An elderly professor for a linear algebra class used to fall asleep within ten minutes of handing out a test. There were a handful of students in my class who would take their notes and books out of their backpacks when he began to snore.</p>
<p>ellemenope:
What would happen if D reported the irregularities? Would she risk having her own score cancelled? She would not be able to report the cheating in this case, since it happened behind her. She heard the whispering, eg. a boy asking someone for the last 4 multiple choice answers, and has a good idea who was involved, but isn’t absolutely certain. It was her friend, not her, who witnessed the eraser being passed. (Amazing how none of the 3 proctors heard or saw anything…) What is certain, however, is that some students took out their inserts at the wrong time. D heard the proctors discussing what to do about the situation, and then they walked around to tell everyone to put the inserts back where they belonged. I’m sure that could be verified by questioning other students, provided they tell the truth. And that is the problem, isn’t it? What incentive is there for anyone to speak up?</p>
<p>Called the College Board Integrity hotline. The rep. confirmed that if D or I were to tell them the name of our school, D would run the risk of having to re-take the test, though it would be free (as if that were the main concern about a re-take.) Although it would be very unlikely that D’s own score would get cancelled, they also could not promise me that it wouldn’t happen. She also confirmed that it is true that centers which have too many problems reported can lose their right to be a test center.</p>
<p>So, I tried to explain to the woman that their policies discourage students and proctors alike from reporting cheating, and in fact reward the bad centers. Why wouldn’t the center which finds and reports cheating be the center which is deemed the good and reputable one? To the contrary, the ones which seemingly encounter no cheating are rewarded with a continued contract. The woman told me that she’s not the one who makes the policies. So I asked to speak with her supervisor; got the lady’s voice-mail. I left the supervisor a message, but am not hopeful there will be change.</p>
<p>I did not tell them the name of our high school.</p>
<p>GFG, just as cheating is a serious infraction if the cheater is caught and the rules in place decide that the cheating did occur, it is a serious offense to report false incidences of cheating. It is cheating also. It too is a type of cheating that is happening too often, and too many innocent people are hurt by it. </p>
<p>There really is no easy answer to this. It is truly a serious thing to falsely accuse anyone of cheating or negligence. The consequences are severe. So if your daughter or anyone sees cheating, that in itself is not enough proof that the cheating occurred. Particularly after the fact. </p>
<p>There are occurances of people reporting cheating and irregularities for reasons other than their happening. Getting groups of kids to make statements about this sort of thing is not accurate. There are often kids who have it to their interest to have the test declared null and do a retake, and kids who absolutely do not want that to happen. That can temper the results of the questioning. </p>
<p>In my opinion, proctors should not be from the school or even area where the tests are being taken. That way there is less of a chance that those in charge will have a personal investment in reporting an incident.</p>
<p>For the SAT, proctors are not employees of the school serving as test center. I think this is a far superior system. </p>
<p>“So if your daughter or anyone sees cheating, that in itself is not enough proof that the cheating occurred.” </p>
<p>Exactly the problem, exactly what proctors and suspected students will say if questioned, and one reason why I stated above that I have told my children to mind their own business and keep quiet. They could end up being the accused one.</p>
<p>TheGFG–Sounds like the Hotline has lots of disincentives to report. Too bad. That means that it really is the job of proctors on the ground floor who have to be extra vigilant. </p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Umm–isn’t seeing believing? If I see someone cheat, that isn’t enough proof? I suppose 2 witnesses would be better. So I should hail another one of the proctors to keep a watch on the cheater?</p>
<p>Yes, you should. You should have your eyes on your own test anyways. If you see cheating, you can let the proctor know during a break so he can eye the student in question more carefully and make the determination. But you can see what chaos would ensue if anyone can accuse anyone of cheating without proof. And since cheating can be something fleeting, it is not easy to confirm. There have been occasions when someone suspects cheating and it is not true. More often just unprovable. But as I said before, a false accusation of cheating is cheating in itself.</p>
<p>“a false accusation of cheating is cheating in itself.”</p>
<p>Not necessarily! First of all, I think a student should be able to report observations and leave the investigation, interpretation and ultimate determination to the proctor. Why should a kid fear being accused of making a false accusation for telling the proctor he saw kids passing items back and forth? Maybe he saw wrong, and maybe he saw right, but that is not in itself an accusation. An incorrect accusation may be just that–incorrect. I think the word “false” carries a connotation of being purposely wrong. The accusation may have been based on a careless or overly quick judgment that turns out to be inaccurate. Or, it may be incorrect in substance (no actual cheating occurred) but correct insofar as there was a secondary rule infraction (student had cell phone/ipod/large eraser, etc. when these items were supposed to be prohibited, yet the banned item was not actually used to cheat). A false accusation only resembles cheating when the intent is to deceive others and give false testimony for the purpose of harming another and gaining advantage for oneself.</p>
<p>A false accusation of cheating is cheating in itself. I still go by that. If you see students passing things back and forth, then you saw students passing things back and forth. You did not see cheating. If you want to tell the proctors what you saw, that is fine. What you do not do, is say you saw cheating.</p>
<p>I have heard too many kids jump to too many conclusions which can be very harmful. Adults, too, but we are often held to higher standards and can risk libel suits and other issues if we falsely accuse people of things, or even correctly accuse them of such if it is unproveable. </p>
<p>I don’t recommend kids reporting every possible thing. Judgment needs to be exercised.</p>
<p>If I’m not mistaken, students are very clearly told what behavior is permitted and what is not, as well as what items they’re allowed to have and when they’re allowed to use them, and what they aren’t. The purpose of very clear rules is to remove the need for judgment. Judgment gets too messy. Suppose John uses his calculator for the part of the test when no calculators are allowed. He may have been inattentive when the rules were announced, and may have had no intention of cheating. But the fact remains that he violated the rules in a way which gave him an advantage, and that has to be considered cheating out of fairness to the other test-takers. The problem is that proctors tend to look at John, say “But he’s such a nice kid,” and then let it go. But what if being a nice kid is how John always gets away with cheating? You don’t want proctors to have to assess a kid’s motives, or evaluate character. That opens a huge can of worms.</p>
<p>There is a trend now to overlook cheating in the case of certain students because there is a presumption that they are under intense parental pressure to get top grades and test scores. But how is that fair to the kid who is under the same parental pressure but doesn’t cheat? No one can truly know the heart or intentions of someone else. </p>
<p>These are big, important tests. You don’t talk–period. You don’t pass things to other students–period. You don’t leave the room–period. If you do, it will be interpreted as cheating whether you meant to do so or not. That’s the way it was and still should be.</p>
<p>There have been cases where kids have been disqualified from tests for behavior as you have stated. If the proctor sees it, he is supposed to DQ. That’s why I like an unbiased proctor from some area not near the testing site. That way he can be more objective. But if another kid states that someone is doing something, it can only be something that the proctor now watches for. You can’t just take another’s word for it.</p>
<p>Happy to report that I caught no one cheating on the two AP tests that I proctored. But we collected all cellphones, mp3 players, etc. like the instructions said and I was hyper-vigilant about making sure that there was nothing on the desk top but the pens and pencils required (no calculators on the tests that I proctored).</p>
<p>Kids gave me a weird look when I made them put away erasers, water bottles, kleenex, etc. It hadn’t occurred to them that you could cheat using those items. I guess they aren’t as “sophisticated” as they think.</p>
<p>^I would be furious if a proctor told me to put away my eraser. I make a lot of premature markings on MC and my eraser has been my lifelong comrade.</p>
<p>…and while the proctor watches the ‘accursed’, the ‘accurser’ is free to cheat!? I agree with TheGFG #106. Sometimes fingering someone else draws attention to you. The question may be asked, ‘Is this person trying to create a diversion?’</p>
<p>As for the original title, ‘Does cheating pay?’. Yes, cheating does pay, but it costs as well. It costs the satisfaction of knowing what you can actually achieve. It costs others opportunities that you stole with unearned grades/scores/awards. It costs you time and money when you flunk out of colleges you weren’t really qualified to attend. It costs you respect and trust (if you are caught). The list can on and on.</p>