<p>Frankly I’m quite amazed at the number of 4.0s that come out of our high school (our school district doesn’t weight AP classes). We remember that 4.0was rare when we were in high school and people who got 800 on the SAT made the national news. Something is not quite right with the picture in general in my humble opinion.</p>
<p>High school students learn a lot more than in our day. E.g., when I asked my HS senior daughter about calculus, she has already learned the things I learned in college (there was no calculus in my HS). Plus, she’s had every AP lab science class; I had only non-AP physics. I think today’s advanced curriculum has a lot to do with the high scores.</p>
<p>The answer to the OP, is that it can pay and many do it. However, sometimes it cost very heavily and it is not worth it. It is the part of “life is not fair”. Some people seem to have a very long and successful run at cheating. But if they do it long enough (which is likely since it is its own reward) they usually end up losing to the odds. However, taking the high road is alway better, you never have to worry that something out of your past will sink you. Look at how many people are caught down the road, or get in situations that they can’t handle by cheating and have not learned to function without it.</p>
<p>Maybe cheating can pay in the short run, but studying and effort pay more. The sports world is in a quandry over performance-enhancing drugs because clean athletes are at a disadvantage when trying to compete one-on-one with juiced athletes. But that’s not the case with academics - one CAN succeed and excel on one’s own merits regardless of others’ cheating. The long-term benefit isn’t necessarily the grade from a course; it’s the development of an interest in a topic that leads to the desired grade, or the development of self-discipline that allows one to persist in the absence of a passion for the topic. Our kids don’t need to be discouraged by the cheating of others; they need to be focused on their own commitment and effort.</p>
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<p>Agree 100%. I also wouldn’t advise my kids to drop a dime on their classmates, but understand those who do.</p>
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If he used previous year exams to study, that’s not cheating. Most classes at Berkeley would link you to previous semester website. There, you can find old midterms, old homework solutions, etc… It’s up to you to take the initiative to learn.</p>
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I see from other posts that you are Hispanic. Will you use that as your hook to get into college? Will any college see beyond the “holistic” admissions (i.e. accept lower qualifications from URMs) and see your true character? I surely do hope so. You are a disgrace.</p>
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<p>Tough words coming from behind a computer screen. </p>
<p>It’s amazing how you can only look at me as a Hispanic cheater and how it’s supposedly easier for me to get into college, and not just a cheater. But I wouldn’t expect any less from people like you.</p>
<p>Hispanics do have an advantage at schools trying to diversify their student bodies, but that’s beside the point. If your grades are better than they would have been without cheating, you run the risk of being admitted to a school that is too difficult for you, and you may not be able to cheat your way to a diploma. This is just a practical issue any cheater should consider.</p>
<p>I cheat because it saves time so that I can do things I prefer to do, not because I can’t handle the work load. My grades would have been just the same whether I had spent the time grinding on useless homework or had cheated, like I chose to do. </p>
<p>The cheaters I sell homework should consider that, but I don’t feel the need to because I am more than capable of any classroom setting.</p>
<p>Yes, Hispanics do have an advantage at getting into some schools, and I didn’t say that we don’t. That does not mean that it’s easier for us to get into college; most of us don’t even go to college. </p>
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<p>I am a disagrace because I am a Hispanic and it just so happens that some colleges decide that they want some brown people to add a little “flavor” to the pale student bodies. </p>
<p>I don’t even know what a “hook” is, so I can’t address that part.</p>
<p>But obviously copying Johnny’s “Textbook Scavenger Hunt” worksheet changes my character, and shame on me for being a Hispanic copying Johnny’s worksheet!</p>
<p>Cheating reminds me of a question on some online quiz I once took. Would you run a 5% risk of never having sex again, in order to never gain a pound again? ^.^</p>
<p>Edit: sorry if that offended anyone. The point is that risk taking people cheat.</p>
<p>A hook is a feature of an applicant that attracts a college trying to fill a certain category of student. Possible categories include athletics, ethnic diversity, geographic residence, international citizenship, legacy, music, art, gender, etc.</p>
<p>Even back in my day there was a certain amount of copying homework, native speakers checking over foreign language homework, but if plagiarism or exam copying was happening I certainly wasn’t aware of it. Personally, I think we might be better off if we encouraged study groups (like many colleges do) and keep the emphasis on learning the material and not whether or not you did the homework, especially some of the dopier time consuming stuff.</p>
<p>I’d like to see an atmosphere were the serious cheating (exams, plagiarism) got identified and the cheaters got punished.</p>
<p>An example where I see no particular harm in cheating might be when the teacher asks you to look up a bunch of definitions in a dictionary - an assignment that used to be quite tedious - a little less so these days with online dictionaries. Getting the definitions from a friend could save time with little harm done. Especially if there is a quiz at the end of the week to test whether you actually learned those definitions.</p>
<p>If you think that cheating doesn’t hurt - then think again. These kids who are cheating so much in HS and not getting caught are continuing to do it in college. I remember hearing that one of the CA colleges will be putting cameras in their classrooms because cheating is so rampant. And this has little to do with proper citation - this has to do with copying other kids’ answers on tests, etc. I personally do not want a doctor, dentist, etc., who had to cheat to pass! I want the one who didn’t cheat and got the A or B!</p>
<p>Cheating goes back to the beginning of time - certainly happened when I was in college. I remember well being in a large lecture Astronomy class where the final was a multiple choice scantron form test. Two people leaned forward before the test and said “make sure we can see your answer sheet - we know you are getting A’s in here”. I was so irritated that I did the first 10 problems correctly and then shifted my answers over one for the rest of the test. (put C down for B, B down for A etc.). When I turned in my form, I told the professor that I needed to speak to him after class. We met in his office, I explained what I had done and why - so he hand graded my test, shifting things back over and gave me what I had earned. I assume the other two got F’s.</p>
<p>My DS tells me that cheating is how a number of students are getting As in his calculus class. The teacher gives tests that take longer than an hour to do - so he allows them to come back after school to finish. The “group” simply divides up the test before hand, everyone sneaking out one or two problems on their scratch paper. They then work together, solving all of the problems over lunch, and bring their scratch paper back into class after school to finish the test. DS does not participate- saying he would rather get a B than go down that road.</p>
<p>As my D went off to school this morning to take her AP Chem exam–a class in which kids regularly cheat–I thought of this thread. I told her I know she has been working very hard, and that I’d much rather see a grade she earned than a better one she cheated to get. Then I remembered that a student in my son’s class had gotten caught cheating on his AP test. So, out of curiosity, I asked S what had happened to that kid. Did he end up at a not-so-elite school? I asked. Unfortunately, the high school never reported this incident to ETS, it never went on his permanent record, and now he’s at an Ivy. So, in the short term, cheating pays. But it’s wrong, it’s harmful, and it’s risky. I totally agree with audiophile’s post early on:</p>
<p>“Whether or not you believe in “Karma”, cheating is primarily a self deception. Even if no one else knows you’ve cheated, you certainly do. This leads to low self esteem and all of the mental and physical manifestations associated with it. So, no, cheating does not pay.”</p>
<p>Update: During today’s AP exam, kids behind D were whispering. D’s friend, also sitting behind her, saw an eraser get passed back and forth with answers to the multiple choice questions written on it. Apparently, the proctors have the ipod/cell phone/graphing calculator cheating methods under control, and even the answers-written-on-granola-bars-or-inside-water-bottles possibilities eliminated. Consquently, the kids have successfully reverted to low-tech strategies. Hmm. Some students also removed the insert before they were supposed to–something which is supposed to get their scores cancelled. Think the school was going to actually report that? Think again. I’m disgusted.</p>
<p>PS–schools do not want to report irregularities because doing so could jeopardize the scores of honest students. Also, if I’m not mistaken, if there were to be too many irregularities reported, the school could lose their right to be a testing site. So, teachers are definitely complicit in the cheating problem. That’s why “telling” is risky business.</p>
<p>I am an AP proctor this year for the first time. I would not have allowed an eraser on the table (rules are very specific as to what can be on the table). Thanks for the heads up, though. There is a procedure of reporting cheating that bypasses the proctors. I’d use it.</p>
<p>I, too, am disgusted by what my kids tell me goes on in their very competitive high school. I am almost at the point where I am going to meet with the Dean of Student Life. How dense does a teacher have to be when a student asks to go to the bathroom every time there is a test, and NEVER asks to leave the classroom on any other occasion. There are kids copying off my kid in Spanish class-an Honors section-he just says to me, “why don’t they just study?” He tries to prevent it when he sees it.</p>