Does "Greek" = "Drinking/Partying"? For purposes of fit

College Search & Selection
1

I’m not posing this question to start a battle or make any judgements. I want to use the answers in our college search to determine fit. When a college (specifically, small to midsize LACs) has a very prominent Greek life, would that outright make it a bad choice for a son who does NOT drink or party? He’s not shy, and has a social life, but he chooses not to use substances and doesn’t really like to be around it. Sure, I realize this could change, but I know him pretty well and he’s pretty strongly against it, for now.

So I’m wondering in terms of fit, when we read that Greek life is a big part of a school (examples: Washington and Lee, some of the mid PA small LACs such as Lehigh), if we should just take these off of the list when we see that. I’m particularly interested in a description of “Southern Greek Culture” as he is looking mid Atlantic and some South (Wake Forest)…what exactly does that term mean and how is it different from a typical Greek culture? Does it mean more heavy partying?

I feel like any school these days, on the tours, downplays Greek life and I always hear students say “it doesn’t matter, I’m not in a fraternity/sorority and have plenty of friends who are, and plenty who aren’t”, etc etc so I’m not sure I can really take those statements to heart. Or non-partying fraternities. What’s the reality of that?

Thank you all.

2

And if it matters, my son (not surprisingly) says he is definitely not interested in joining a fraternity. So again, hoping not to have a discussion of the pros or cons of Greek life, just a reality check on what it means for college culture and fit when a college has a large percentage and/or importance on Greek life, for a son. Thanks!

3

FWIW, S attends Wake Forest and IS NOT in a fraternity. He has a great group of friends (pretty large group) that are not Greek. They do a ton of stuff together including party. He has also found other organizations (clubs) on campus to expand his horizons.

Greek life at Wake is quite active. I htink it’s a bigger deal for women as 50 to 60% join. The men are much lower at 30 to 40%. Ironically, he attended several sorority “date” functions last yr. I thought the sororities would typically socialize with fraternities but he told me it’s pretty wide open. Of course there are some exclusive Greek functions (as with any organization). But you can have a very active social life without being Greek at Wake Forest.

As far as alcohol consumption goes, there is plenty of that at Wake, but I think there is plenty of that on virtually every campus. Your son will need to seek out his tribe wherever he goes.

4

My son’s best friend had W&L in his top 3. On accepted student day, the whole family left with the impression that Greek life and heavy drinking is pretty much the social scene there. He got very much of a conservative, southern preppy private school vibe and crossed it off his list. And he does party, but born and raised in the Northeast just felt it wouldn’t fit. W&L in particular seems to be one where Greek life is very dominant.

5

Nobody’s forced to go to parties at fraternity or sorority houses.

6

OP: The most concise answer to your question is: Yes.

7

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/most-frats

“Party school” rankings also are available; you might want to cross-reference them against the frat participation list.

A big frat/party/drinking scene might be harder to avoid at a small rural college than at a larger, urban school.

8

You may also want to note the participation levels. Some with very high participation levels are W&L, Depauw, and Dartmouth.

Note that big universities may have low participation rates, but 5% of a huge university may produce a large fraternity/sorority system that is larger than an entire small LAC. But it will not be the only social scene there.

9

To add to the points above, I recommend distinguishing between colleges with residential frats/sororities (i.e. “frat row”) and those with Greek organizations that not residential (i.e. students in frats and sororities live in the same dorms as everyone else). The social scenes can be very different at two colleges with similar percentages of students in Greek life.

Also keep in mind that while colleges with large Greek scenes generally have noticeable party scenes, you certainly can’t assume that a college with a small (or nonexistent) Greek scene will have a laidback social scene.

Harvard Public Health did a study a few years that several other factors correlated to high rates of drinking, including small enrollment, a high percentage of athletes, and a high percentage of white students. Majoring in business, studying in the Northeast (followed by the Midwest), being under 24, having below a B-average, being less involved in religion, and having college-educated parents were also linked with higher drinking rates.

10

There’s a conversation elsewhere here at CC (but can’t find it right now) where a kid is considering transferring from UVA to a more serious tech school but one of the issues he noted was the large Greek influence on the campus and the emphasis on drinking…he just wasn’t comfortable there.

11

Looks kind of like what they found in this paper (from researchers at Southern Illinois University, Carbondale):
https://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/media/Journal/082-Presley.pdf

Drinking tendencies associated with college and student characteristics:

  • Historically black college: lower.
  • Black and Asian students: lower.
  • White and Native American students: higher.
  • Women's college: lower.
  • Fraternity/sorority participation: higher.
  • Athletic participation: higher.
  • Two year college: lower.
  • Residence: fraternity/sorority house > off-campus > on-campus > commuter.
  • Small college: higher.
  • Region of college: Northeast > North Central > other.
12

We’ve gotten to experience a wide variety of schools over the last decade–high school and college–where there is a strong Greek culture or a similar type social vibe. We kept thinking it wouldn’t matter that much for non-Greek-type kid to be at a Greek or more old school type school culture at a school with high academic standards. We kept being proven wrong. If that is the dominant culture, then students not interested in it sort of become others. Not to say the students I’m talking about had miserable experiences. But they were kids who get along well, before and after, and had friends at these type schools, but very much felt as others.

I can speak directly to Wake, and we found it to be the opposite of what is described above. Social life revolves around off-campus Greek parties, in houses procured because drinking rules are strict on campus. There is a definite hierarchy among the Greek organizations, and not being in one, especially for females, can be a challenge. I’m glad for the son described above, that he has found a great group of friends, etc. I definitely think that is possible, for male and female students. I’m sure, for example, there are theater students who have lots of theater friends and have a great time and enjoy their college experience. But it seems to me that irequires finding a niche outside the mainstream (Greek life), rather than being at a school where there are just lots of different people and things to do, and most students, Greek or not, are on a relatively equal social footing.

Yes, I know W&L pretty well, though more indirectly, and it is a Greek school. Social life is very much shaped by the Greek system. Great academics, but that’s the social world, whether it is a positive or negative for any particular student.

Greek life is also very big at UVA and very expensive, and pretty much what you think it is.

There are lots of great schools without as significant of Greek life. I think you can find academically excellent schools that are similar to ones with Greek life, but without it, or with a more chill Greek life. If your son is really opposed to the idea of joining a Greek organization, I’d think it a good idea to look at ones without a Greek reputation. Now, I went to college not think I’d join a fraternity/sorority, but I did.

Good luck!

13

One way to find out if a college has a heavy party scene is to look at it’s page on Niche (website). They students write in two or three terms that describe their schools. For our family, any school that said “work hard, play hard” was off the list, because that meant hard partying.

Niche also lets the students rank how dominant the Greek life is on campus. Percentage is one thing, but how active it is is another.

14

Thank you for starting this thread. S19 has very similar views to your son and is debating the same issue. His fav so far has a strong Greek rep. While 40% participation would mean 60% aren’t involved, I don’t want him to feel like an outsider as mentioned above. Definitely something he will have to think about when its decision time.

15

Let me expand on my take on the social life at Wake as explained by my son (we’ve had many conversations about this). No dog in this fight, just want to lay out a form of reality (his reality - everyone’s will be different)

  1. S would be considered on the shy side of the middle. He's not shy but not very vocal. Has always had lots of friends but prefers smaller groups than massive crowds. He doesn't "work the room" but forms deep, meaningful relationships with people.
  2. I was concerned about the Greek rep at Wake going in as he wasn't interested in it. A few points of interest: A. Rush happens in the spring so everything is wide open first semester which gives you a chance to get used to college, make friends, etc without the Greek world interfering. B. No Greek residential houses and a requirement to live on campus for 3 yrs keeps out the typical segregation of groups. Basically everyone lives on campus together. Greeks may cluster around their lounge (basement level of several dorms), but in essence it's way different than tons of kids living in frat houses, only socializing with brothers (or sisters).
  3. S attended many frat parties first semester as they are open to everyone (they want to meet the freshmen for recruiting).
  4. There are many other things to do (clubs, sports, campus events, speakers, theater, etc.) If you are alcohol free and want to stay away from the parties, you can easily do that, and many do. However, if you want to party several nights a week (not as bad as most state Us and other schools because the workload is demanding), you can certainly find a party. S pretty much "went out" Wed, Fri, Sat with an occasional Thurs thrown in.
  5. Halfway through first semester he surprised us by telling us he was going to Rush. Didn't think he had any interest, but he hung out at one particular frat and liked it alot so he and several (like 15) friends from his dorm claimed they would rush in the spring. WHen asked why, he told me that it would be hard to go to parties in the spring without being a brother tighter, blah blah blah. 2nd semester came and most of his buddies decided not to rush. He went though it anyway, got the bid, and after two nights of pledging decided it wasn't for him (glad he was strong enough to know what he wants).
  6. His friends didn't go to as many frat parties (went to some) but had a ton of fun just hanging out. They essentially formed their own group which grew to about 30 kids (co ed) and would routinely have parties in several dorm rooms. Not crazy but fun. Just after one full yr of college, these kids have become quite tight, have visited each other during spring break and this summer.
  7. Frats take up a lot of time. He was able to redirect that time with other meaningful activities including a co ed business frat (very positive experience - meets weekly, has about 100 kids, meets with companies, networking, resume and interview help,etc.). Also joined the Club Baseball team and some other major related clubs.
  8. So, has many friends from a variety of groups; dorm, business frat, baseball. intramural sports, dow jones club, classes. His primary group is actually pretty large. It was amazing seeing them say goodbye to each other at the end of spring semester.

So, a Wake experience can be like that, can be very frat oriented, or somewhere in between. My son definitely partakes in parties and alcohol. Several of his close friends hardly drink at all. Others are all in. He would tell you that he loved his first yr and is ecstatic with his school choice, even though there is a large, visible Greek community.

It’s about finding your tribe.

16

Remember that 40% often doesn’t include freshmen, since they aren’t officially part of the Greek system while they are rushing, but that depends on the school.

17

40% is a lot of students, though. Having attended an LAC with 40% men and 60% women, you couldn’t effectively tell that there were fewer men. It felt more like 50-50.

If my child wanted to avoid greek life, but liked schools that had some greek, I’d look for schools with about 10% participation. You can find out the percent of participation on Collegedata, under “Campus Life”. Scroll down and you can see, for example, that Colgate has 35% of women in sororities and 20% of men in fraternities.

18

Thank you all for your insights and experiences. I am noticing that no one is saying “no, Greek life doesn’t necessarily mean drinking/partying!” I am aware of using resources to determine how strong a presence it is in a particular school, and find that very helpful. After reading this thread, I think Strong Greek Life will become a factor that will be highly considered in the choice. And I do believe in “finding your tribe” and that many kids will find their way, or be the exception to the rule, swim against the tide, etc, and be happy as non Greek students in a Strong Greek Life school. But with so many choices, we want to choose one that is truly the best fit and will provide the best opportunity to thrive, so I do think this will factor in and possibly take some schools off of the list. Thank you all again!